Should Governments rescind the Noble Lie of religions?

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posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


If governments were to rescind the lie of Religion they would have to rescind the lie of Science too. All too often Science masquerades as religion. In fact the religion of Science is more dangerous than any faith based religion because it seeks to monopolize not with stories believed on faith but on distorting the meanings of facts, truths and laws such as many people do with The Laws of Physics. They claim these "laws" are immutable, and cannot be re-written, discarded, expanded on or possibly flat out wrong. This bold misdirection goes as far to suggest if something is claimed to happen that these laws do not support, then it must be because the law is being violated and this is not acceptable. These champions of scientific dogma never stop to consider perhaps the law itself is in error. This flies flat in the face of scientific open mindedness and objectivity, making science a religion unto itself. It is so full of deception that most people never question it where as faith based religions are easily questioned.




posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


If governments were to rescind the lie of Religion they would have to rescind the lie of Science too. All too often Science masquerades as religion. In fact the religion of Science is more dangerous than any faith based religion because it seeks to monopolize not with stories believed on faith but on distorting the meanings of facts, truths and laws such as many people do with The Laws of Physics. They claim these "laws" are immutable, and cannot be re-written, discarded, expanded on or possibly flat out wrong. This bold misdirection goes as far to suggest if something is claimed to happen that these laws do not support, then it must be because the law is being violated and this is not acceptable. These champions of scientific dogma never stop to consider perhaps the law itself is in error. This flies flat in the face of scientific open mindedness and objectivity, making science a religion unto itself. It is so full of deception that most people never question it where as faith based religions are easily questioned.


I would put it simply as: There's good science, and there's bad science(as you describe above), same goes for religion.



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Governments should do nothing but stay out of the life of the people and simply administer a few (very few) needed public programs, all else called Government should go!

As far as religions go I believe when people finally mature...maybe someday...they themselves will throw them all out!


I disagree in general with your political view.

I agree with your religious view but think government has a role to play. Governments are elected to protect consumers against shoddy or dangerous products. Ideas can be dangerous. Ask any Gay or woman who think they should be equal with men.

I see religions as a way for a church to fleece the flock. They do so with lies about some God or other.

Governments have been known to act against churches in the past and I think that is a good thing. Think suicide cults.

That to me is a decent precedent and just think they should expand their definition of lies and harm to the minds that believe these lies and are hurt by them. I have heard many an ex Christian complain of the trauma they went through in their former belief in the hell preached by most Christian sects.

FMPOV, that is enough to have them rescind their Noble Lie and move against churches that are known to lie.
Starting with the flim flam faith healers.

Should the public not be protected from con artists?

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
You should only worry about your own beliefs. Why can't you just be fine with your life without worrying about what everyone else thinks? If someone wants to believe in God, or follow any religion, it does not hurt you one bit.


This is true but anyone will a social conscience will not think as you do. They will know that we are all in this together, alone. Morals say that we should center on others and here you are just thinking of you.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.youtube.com...

Promoting death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Acidtastic
Politics has absolutley no business using religion to bring in any moral type stuff/laws. I have no problem with people who are religious, personal beliefs should be just that, personal. But when it encroaches into world politics, you're looking at some real messed up stuff. I can't get a drink in the UK after 11pm on a sunday because of it. Shops were unable to open at all on sundays until recently, because of religion. And wars, many wars have been started over whose god is harder than anothr god. It's retarded, quite frankly. Things like that get on my moobs. Religion has no place in politics, and visa versa.


You would not like to live in the U S then.

Their system is screwed because of religion and it is a wonder they have become what they are in spite of the thumpers they have elected.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Religious expression is a fundamental human right.

There are hundreds of different spiritual belief systems, only a few wield power over large numbers of people like the Roman Catholic Church, for example.

For many humans religious or spiritual beliefs systems are very important, if you see no value in spirituality then have none in your own life and leave it at that.

That said, I am not a religious person, and many things about the corrupt institutions that peddle the offer eternal life in return for subjugation make me angry to the core.

But I still think that the freedom to personally choose what we believe in is a human right.

To me most of the problems that are attached to religion stem from the 'troublesome three' - Judaism, Islam and Christianity. When I hear somebody complaining about religion it usually has something to do with one of the above and their institutions, teachings and control systems. And I usually agree, except that these three are not representative, IMO, of all spiritual beliefs that human beings foster, although of course, their proponents would have you think otherwise. What about Buddhism for example? What about Hinduism? What about the diverse practices of native and indigenous tribal peoples everywhere who have managed to fend off missionaries and hold to their own sacred beliefs?

edit on 26-9-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)


I am a Gnostic Christian but we seem to be on the same religious page.

This sucks though and am surprised you would say it.

"Religious expression is a fundamental human right."

Would you protect the rights of those in these links to express themselves as they do?

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.youtube.com...

Promoting death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Former education offical for the US Gov, and whistleblower Charlotte Iserbyte points out that the game is about making us stupid. Or, rather, keeping us uninformed.

If you have ever wondered why kids seem more dull than in years past, like the educational system wasn't doing its job....because it is designed to not work. It isn't the teachers who are involved, but the structure put in place to befuddle them and counter any positive measures they may take.

From a social standpoint, do you want everyone highly educated? if so, how do you pay them to flip burgers for you? Yes, it is nefarious....but the "noble lie" is called "noble" for a reason: it provides structure and order in the esteem of "them".


I think that there are enough people at the bottom of our I Q line that we do not have to retard the rest of the population. The more educated a population is, the more productive it is.

If you follow the Nobel Prize stats, others are quite far ahead of the U S and they will get the cream.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Its not about making you stupid, but rather preventing you from gaining insight. So flawed formulas are taught, despite the fact that they are known to be flawed (and when you find a correction, it is squashed. Wonder how many solutions to Maxwells Equations have been stifled?).

Its also about not teaching thinking skills, but rather teaching memorization. This is a paradigm shift from what seems logical and is almost imperceptible to the average person. But consider it like this: if you are taught to learn by memorization instead of logic, you are less free thinking and more programmable. When you were taught math in school, did you have to memorize lists of formulas? Or did you learn the logic behind the formulas?

It is an obvious issue, if you look. And the motives are obvious too: if you are less trained to think, you are more easily placated. Just look at our nation today as a result of this approach. It has worked like a charm.



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by jimmiec
An impossible task without mass genocide. I would keep The Ten Commandments in any event.


Women will be pleased.

They are put with a man's other possession, right after the ass and house if I recall.

You would think that if the big 10 were worthy, God himself would not break half of them.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Should Governments rescind the Noble Lie of religions?

www.youtube.com...

These lies were and are given to insure social harmony in an uneducated and gullible population. Our Governments lie and allow liars to lie to us of the supernatural, fantasy and magic.

Governments learned a long ago that religions were a good tool to use for social manipulation and control. Governments allowed and encouraged belief in fantasy, miracles and magic, the opium of the masses, and have lived with the drugged up population and religions.

Governments, with this noble lie, have maintained the current idiocy of immoral teachings within religions and have caused much unjust discrimination and denigration of innocent populations of Gays, women and many others, for just doing what we now see as moral.

Do you think we have matured enough as a people that we can now rescind the laws that protect religions and gives them a tax haven and legitimacy?

Are we intelligent enough to not need these lies anymore?

Can the population take our real reality or is the Government just going to let the flim-flam con game of religions to continue to damage the mental capabilities of the citizens in our country?

Flim-flam and con artists are subject to the law of the land. --- except for religions.

Can the population of take the truth?

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


Regards
DL



You are confusing GovernMENT with GoverNANCE

GovernMENT has no business regulating morality (or lack thereof)

GoveNANCE absolutely does, and as such is a step towards tyranny. Governance is the government micro-managing it's way into every conceivable aspect of your life and acquiring control of it (sound familiar?)

Some will disagree with that. That's fine, you still have a right to disagree. For now....

Also, if you are willing to allow the destruction of what we currently have for "religion" you have to accept that same power can and likely will, destroy what YOU believe in. Whatever that may be.

You can't pick and choose.

Still interested?



Yep.

You seem to have forgotten how most regimes are tyrannies and become so the moment a law is created and that our present oligarchies are tyrannies. If Socrates was right, we should progress to a timocratic tyranny.

Your big brother scenario is not likely to come about.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Do you think we have matured enough as a people that we can now rescind the laws that protect religions and gives them a tax haven and legitimacy?

Are we intelligent enough to not need these lies anymore?


Yes, and yes. We as a people are mature enough, and by this time all of us should in fact be able to see through the lies and mythology of religions, and how they tend to control the very thought process of many people, including some who are in charge of government. I have always said that if a preacher says a word about politics or a candidate for president from the pulpit the church should lose their tax free status, and I strongly believe churches should pay property tax, as they own the primmest real estate in town in most cities and towns.



You see 20/20 here.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by LeSigh
The religious invented government. Government has always been heavily influenced by religion. I use both words in their broadest sense. Even those who reject religion have been influenced by it. Your culture(s) have been influenced by it- as religion is part of culture. You can potentially get enough people to agree with you to legislate religion away and lobby for it. However, you'd ultimately lose. You'll never get people to give up religion. In fact, if one goes by the broadest of definitions for religion (and some are quite broad and encompassing) then one could say that the irreligious often in fact believe and engage in things that could be defined as religious in nature.


I have no interest in legislating religions away.
As a Gnostic Christian, that would not serve my agenda.
My interest is to bring the more immoral ones to sanity and morality and to get religions out of my pockets. If I want them to have my money, I will give it. I do not want to support systems like the Rapture ready who to me, are traitors to their own race.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Mickierocksman
Yes, all governments of the world should finally state that all religions on this earth were created by man to control and manipulate the population into certain viewpoints & behaviours.

Then the governments should provide disclosure on alien visitation and advanced ancient technology.

The way to a bright future does not involve religion or racism as these only bring us closer to extinction.

Education and science is the key to reaching our goals and the sooner religions are exposed as the manipulative stories that they are, the quicker we may be able to recover from our downward spiral.

Mickierocksman


No argument with your religious views but your view of reality is way off the mark.

The markers I track are violent crime, deaths includding military, slavery and the world population.

All of these are the best they have ever been and FMPOV, things are moving along quite well.

Links upon request.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by filosophia
Or, we go the other way, everyone becomes their own religion, everone gets tax exempt status, everyone can invoke the first amendment to protect their behavior, not just speech, everyone can have the safety shield of it's my faith even when presented with facts, and everyone can be happy and equal.


As a Gnostic Christian, I can agree as we believe that each of us have a direct line to God if we can activate it through apotheosis. To us, we are all equal.

The Abrahamic faiths will not like your view though. Equality is not on Islam's and Christianity's agenda.
The reverse is firmly in place. Women are chattel and Gays are for the grave to them.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


If governments were to rescind the lie of Religion they would have to rescind the lie of Science too. All too often Science masquerades as religion. In fact the religion of Science is more dangerous than any faith based religion because it seeks to monopolize not with stories believed on faith but on distorting the meanings of facts, truths and laws such as many people do with The Laws of Physics. They claim these "laws" are immutable, and cannot be re-written, discarded, expanded on or possibly flat out wrong. This bold misdirection goes as far to suggest if something is claimed to happen that these laws do not support, then it must be because the law is being violated and this is not acceptable. These champions of scientific dogma never stop to consider perhaps the law itself is in error. This flies flat in the face of scientific open mindedness and objectivity, making science a religion unto itself. It is so full of deception that most people never question it where as faith based religions are easily questioned.


In science, repeatability is key as well as verification before anything is accepted. Facts must be treated as such because a scientist's reputation, revenues and tenure demand it. Remember the loss of face for cold fusion when science could not back up it's claim. That issue died quickly.
Truth killed that science team quickly. Religions should go with the same speed if thinkers had their way.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Its not about making you stupid, but rather preventing you from gaining insight. So flawed formulas are taught, despite the fact that they are known to be flawed (and when you find a correction, it is squashed. Wonder how many solutions to Maxwells Equations have been stifled?).

Its also about not teaching thinking skills, but rather teaching memorization. This is a paradigm shift from what seems logical and is almost imperceptible to the average person. But consider it like this: if you are taught to learn by memorization instead of logic, you are less free thinking and more programmable. When you were taught math in school, did you have to memorize lists of formulas? Or did you learn the logic behind the formulas?

It is an obvious issue, if you look. And the motives are obvious too: if you are less trained to think, you are more easily placated. Just look at our nation today as a result of this approach. It has worked like a charm.


All of it is fairly obvious to those who seek to know reality. I agree.

What is not obvious is a workable solution to the problem of redirecting the systems we have.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 



The systems we have are, in general, the albatross that mankind has burdened himself with.



posted on Sep, 28 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


The systems we have are, in general, the albatross that mankind has burdened himself with.


Exactly. That is why I wold like to reverse what the governments have done.
They give respect and credibility where it is not deserved.

Regards
DL



posted on Sep, 28 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Char-Lee

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
You should only worry about your own beliefs. Why can't you just be fine with your life without worrying about what everyone else thinks? If someone wants to believe in God, or follow any religion, it does not hurt you one bit.


Actually it does if their "god" wants them to kill you because he is not YOUR God.


Killing is against the law already and people kill with or without religion. Religious freedom is part of a free society, like it or not.



posted on Sep, 28 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Char-Lee

Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
You should only worry about your own beliefs. Why can't you just be fine with your life without worrying about what everyone else thinks? If someone wants to believe in God, or follow any religion, it does not hurt you one bit.


Actually it does if their "god" wants them to kill you because he is not YOUR God.


so true, so very true

The key to dealing with those people is to act like your "with them" and then be crazier than they are.





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