The Universe is Probably Teaming with Life. (Hubble Reveals Deepest View Ever Of Night Sky)

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher

Originally posted by PhoenixOD

I disagree on both counts. The semantics of the word theory is something that is argued about a lot. But as there isnt the slightest bit of evidence that anything doesn't come from an original source (ie all DNA in anything living fits nicely in the tree) then there is not much to debate. If you going to say "what if" you might just as well put God into the mix. But then the whole discussion of facts, figures and probability just becomes pointless.

On the second point you gave as DNA has only ever happened once as far as we can tell but the chemical to make it have been around for a very long time all the evidence would suggest that the process that set off that first lot of DNA is very special. If not there would be more examples of different variations on it right here on earth.

If there was anything that pointed to the contrary id be very happy.

Good debate by the way

edit on 27-9-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

"what if" is a very important question, that any scientist will tell you is the most important question, one can ask.

Lets talk about "facts, figures and probability". You are basing you whole argument on the 'fact' that the universe (discounting the multiverse theory) is finite. I have seen your arguments, both on a finite amount of stars and a finite amount of planets. Now discounting the mathematics, that in all probability the amount of stars and planets 'out there' means there is likely to be another extremely similar to Earth, the "facts, figures and probability" that you are regarding so highly say that in fact the universe is infinite. There is no beginning and no end. So what say you now?

The maths has been done, the universe is not spherical as first thought, but flat (in every direction-kind of weird but true). If you start at one point, and keep going in straight line, you will never come to your point of origin (unlike a sphere), even if you could live forever. So that puts paid to your argument of finite possibilities, does it not?

err..i said the number of planets out there is finite because matter is finite. That has nothing to do with the shape or size of the universe. You are getting a little confused.

The fact that we have only one example of it happening is what makes it special. If we knew what the special circumstance was then we could quantify just how special it was or what the likelihood of it happening again was.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Sorry, if the universe is infinite, how can matter (something that is part of the make-up of the universe) be finite? Or do you think that once you go so far, the rest of the universe is just empty? Even the parts of the universe you think are empty, are actually made up of small amounts of matter (molecules), to large amounts of anti matter.


I edited a little bit on the end of my last post, that I forgot to address too, if you wouldn't mind taking look?

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


Well the current understanding is that matter is finite but the space that it is expanding into is infinite. The space its expanding into is not matter. And as the universe seems to be flat eventually everything will continuing to get further and further away from each other until all the light go out and everything just stops vibrating..kinda depressing as hell. lol

I will have a look at the link you posted later but Ive but to duck out in a few and take care of some other stuff.

Its been fun discussing this with you, love your avatar by the way

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Seriously though, when you look at that tiny piece of space and see the amount of potential there for life, I'll stake my rep on that we are not alone, there's just no way.

The more life you think is in the universe, the more likely it would be in-your-face obvious. How much life can there realistically be and still remain completely hidden or undiscovered?

Originally posted by RiverRunsFree
There is no doubt the universe is teaming with life, the real question that needs to be answered is how intelligent this life is.

We'll, the complete and utter lack of any proof of any other life existing in the universe adds a little smidge of doubt, don't you think?

reply to post by PhoenixOD


That is the first I have ever heard of the universe being infinite and matter being finite. One is not conducive to the other. It is an impossibility, that if the universe is made of matter and antimatter, that anything that makes it what it is, is finite.

I'm interested in your statement, that 'it's thought' that matter is finite. Could you offer me up some examples?

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

The revised estimates are for a total of 200-300+ sextillion stars in the observable universe:
www.csmonitor.com - Sextillion is the word with new star discovery...

There's also a (unknown?) number of rogue planets between systems:
www.spacedaily.com - Free-floating planets in the Milky Way outnumber stars...

reply to post by jonnywhite


Indeed. The key is in the word observable. The universe is infinite, there is nothing to suggest that what we can see in the observable universe is not repeated in infinitum. It goes on like this forever and forever and forever. Craziness.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Obviously I don't have the answers but I can think outside of the box

You obviously know about life as we know it but I can assure you that you know nothing about life not as we know it, can you see where I'm coming from here?

Billions of galaxies and you know what it takes for "life" to exist there?.....for some reason I don't believe you can tell me in detail about any distant galaxies let alone billions and billions of the little buggers

I think you can't comprehend figures and possibilities as they are quite infinite

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


Thats why by our means there is no way another civilization to travel. It's either faster than light, teleportation or some hyperspace jump or stargate. Or change dimension and doing things in a way we are too new as a civilization to understand.

reply to post by zerozero00


In fact, he/she can't even tell you what led to the formation of DNA except by claiming a 'special circumstance', even though there is no evidence of there ever being a 'special circumstance'.


Like I said before, all DNA is, is a series of chemical reactions (the sequence of which, we don't know, though I dare say that won't last forever). What is a chemical reaction? It is the transference, synthesis or decomposition of electrons, neutrons and/or protons of an atom to another, under a circumstance or set of circumstances.


So what set of circumstances did the Earth experience, that created chemical reactions, which then created DNA, that other planets in the universe didn't experience, that makes the Earth special? The evidence says "nothing".

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher
reply to post by zerozero00

 

In fact, he/she can't even tell you what led to the formation of DNA except by claiming a 'special circumstance', even though there is no evidence of there ever being a 'special circumstance'.


Like I said before, all DNA is, is a series of chemical reactions (the sequence of which, we don't know, though I dare say that won't last forever). What is a chemical reaction? It is the transference, synthesis or decomposition of electrons, neutrons and/or protons of an atom to another, under a circumstance or set of circumstances.


So what set of circumstances did the Earth experience, that created chemical reactions, which then created DNA, that other planets in the universe didn't experience, that makes the Earth special? The evidence says "nothing".

If the process that set off DNA wasn't a special event then why don't we have evidence of more than one occurrence of it happening? If you cant show me its happened more than once then it is special and so far a unique event.

I don't really care about how "deep" Hubble can do, I just want it to do the job of locating intelligent life like this link approved by Malin. msss.com

This CLEARLY shows that there is a civilzaiton on or under mars!
www.msss.com...

You need to click on the link and make sure you click the strip, to get the blow up to see the biological spray that is in the ACT of spraying.

I get frustrated with all the photos of things that are not getting actual structures, buildings, artifacts when they are available, but it gets like the three monkeys. Don't want to see it, hear it or speak.

Lets try to wean ourselves off the practically useless photos when we have actual civilization evidence.

Sure when it is great to look at beauty of the universe but when you have something that SUPPORTS a civilization why try to sidestep it.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD


If the process that set off DNA wasn't a special event then why don't we have evidence of more than one occurrence of it happening? If you cant show me its happened more than once then it is special and so far a unique event.

edit on 27-9-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

So what kind of special event, are you referring to? A comet or asteroid impact perhaps? A radiation burst? Something else? What makes that event unique to the Earth and therefore special?


We only have evidence for the Earth and the Moon, and perhaps, soon, Mars too. But we haven't even searched the Earth comprehensively yet...

If the Earth is to the observable universe (discounting the universe that we cannot see), like 0.122 seconds is to 156 billion years, we can surmise that the Earth,Moon and Mars (if we are being generous) is to the observable universe like, 0.244 seconds is to 156 billion years.

So we have explored (uncomprehensively) 0.244 seconds of 156 billion years, for evidence of DNA. Don't you think it is a tad early, to issue a blanket statement, like, we are 'special'? hmmm? Perhaps we should explore just a little more, before we come to conclusion perhaps...

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


The creation of DNA is unique until proven otherwise.

Can you prove otherwise?

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


Uhmmmm WOW..................I'm sorry I don't have any other words to offer at this time....

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

 

The creation of DNA is unique until proven otherwise.

Can you prove otherwise?

No, the theory of DNA being unique, is theory until proven otherwise. Until all the avenues have been explored, and we have a full understanding of how DNA was formed, it will remain a theory.


You still haven't given me, or any other of the avid readers of this thread, an example of the unique 'special circumstance/s' the Earth experienced yet either.

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


I dont have to give an example the fact that DNA has only been observed once is a fact. The onus is on you to prove otherwise if you have anything other than opinions.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

 

I dont have to give an example the fact that DNA has only been observed once is a fact. The onus is on you to prove otherwise if you have anything other than opinions.

It has been observed once in a an exploration that is comprehensible of 0.122 seconds to 156 billion years. That is not a comprehensive search, and should not be used as a basis for statement of scientific fact.

If DNA is unique until it is proven otherwise, it was never unique in the first place. You are trying to deal with absolutes, where there are no absolutes to be found. Your whole argument is based on a 'special circumstances', upon 1 of number of finite planets, inside a finite number of galaxies, even though science says that is not the case.

What has happened to the Earth that is special, that has not happened to any number of other planets, that was the catalyst for the formation of DNA? Please, any example, that would give your argument more weight, would be lovely.