More than 100,000 protesting in Madrid, Spain - Surrounding/Occupy the Parliament (UPDATED)

This could be slowly the end of Europe if this is going to not change soon.. All this chaos we have to thank to the bankers who put us all to this mess.. And they always come out clean! what! they still hand out billions of bonuses. They also should express their anger to the banks

They are the ones who created this kind of world we now live in and governments let them do this, because of the many bribes that have been done to politicians.

Political unrest

Protests all over the world

Muslims mad at Christians for a movie

Israel threatening Iran, Iran announcing WW3 if touched

North Korea telling US to get out of the continent

If these continue and don't calm down, WWIII will be sooner...

On the other hand, only through revolution the Bank System and the huge gap between Rich and middle class will be fixed.

Originally posted by 0bserver1
This could be slowly the end of Europe if this is going to not change soon.. All this chaos we have to thank to the bankers who put us all to this mess.. And they always come out clean! what! they still hand out billions of bonuses. They also should express their anger to the banks

They are the ones who created this kind of world we now live in and governments let them do this, because of the many bribes that have been done to politicians.

Let me pour some fuel on the fire.... this week it came out that the bank manager of the Danish bank Vest Jyske Bank had let the bank sail away on its own, mis-managing it completely to the point that it now is expecting a minus of just over 100 million dollars.
How do they handle it? They fire him of course.... with a golden handshake of almost 2 million dollars.

"Hey... you #ed up our bank and put a lot of lenders and loaners at risk... get the hell out! But take this money first!"

I'd say revolution is LONG over due! More power to the people of Spain....

The biggist problem is if we manage to kick them all out and start again, what do we start with? It will leave a void and guarenteed some charismatic prick will fill it and most likely give us worse than we have at the moment.

Capitalism is pretty efficient, but is a race to get wealth to the top, it needs so many controls to slow this process, the rich rule.

Socialism is kinda more my style but is innefficient and creates a huge central government which is anti what I am for.

I think we can create a society where you are rewarded for success, but not so much that some end up with more wealth than they could possibly require to live in comfort.

Firstly, we need to sort out banking big time. I would suggest banks be required to be non profits! We still need lots of different ones for competition but they should not be run in the interests of shareholders period. It should be owned either by the customers and or staff.

Do we need private investers at all? Can it be done away with?

I like the idea of workers owning the companies although I have not researched of discussed it very much, I believe there should be a hard limit on the size of a company. No corporations, companies may work together in huge endeavors by special appointment only.

Government power should be decentralized as much as is practical. Municipalities should be co-operating with each other to acheive the economies of scale (procurement etc.), but being seperate entities. I believe every small community should have it own elected commitee and as much responsibility and control as is feasable be given to them!

The fact is we create more than enough wealth to go round so a little inefficiency due to decentralization is fine.

Adequate housing, enough money to get by and free health service for all should go without saying. Unless you get some sort of sense of self worth from seeing others suffer.

Lastly the biggie; inheritance, this has been the most twisted arguement of all. TPTB have made totally sure virtually everybody thinks it is abhorrant to stop someone giving what they have worked for in their life, to whoever they want when they die.

If society can not stop some amassing vastly more than their fair share of the wealth, then most of it will have to be taken back when they die. You should always be able to use that wealth to give your ofspring a property and some other wealth to help them along, but that is all. the rest should be taken and filtered back to the rest of society. I think the ideal would be to stop it amassing in the first place.

The problem is you need a consensus of many reasonably wealthy countries to pull this off. Otherwise all that happens is all those holding the wealth created in your country will just take it and invest elsewhere. As is happening already (Globalisation). Globalisation is a good long term goal but you need to get rid of the huge inequalities first and do it very slowly. Otherwise you dont help other contries poor rise up to our levels, you begin to make us as poor as them. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, our standard of living is dropping drastically and it WILL NOT BOUNCE BACK!

I do not have all the answers but I think this discussion should be a Europe wide or even world wide one.

What do you think? ( No sociopathic extreme right wingers please, we are so far oppossed in views it is not worth trying to have a discussion.

DJ

Hat we need to do is boycott msm. Its a joke.

Hopefully the spanish people will succeed a revolution is long overdue in europe & if we're lucky spain will just be the beginning. Hard times now means a better future if they manage to overthrow their government.

love how the msm keeps saying
its only a small amount of people.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Meanwhile...let's click on over to the Mainstream Media and see what they have to say.

Surely a serious, mature outfit like ABC News, to pick one of the biggies, would have some in-depth breaking coverage, right?

Let's see what ABC News has to say about the Spain Riots:

Mainstream media, herp derp....

They don't want this creating too much of a buzz, because it will increase the chances of more starting in other countries. They don't want people to see this and draw courage from it.

Originally posted by DJOldskool
The biggist problem is if we manage to kick them all out and start again, what do we start with? It will leave a void and guarenteed some charismatic prick will fill it and most likely give us worse than we have at the moment.

The alpha males have been in control of society for thousands of years. That's just the way nature works. It's exactly the same with animals. The strongest/fittest sociopaths feel no remorse when stomping the average people to get what they want. Now keep in mind I'm not saying that's the way it should remain. Just because it's part of nature doesn't mean it's right. I think that if we're going to evolve to a new level of humanity we need to find a way to exterminate this greed trait for good. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking, but maybe these protests/riots are the beginning of something spectacular in that regard.

Originally posted by CaptainJeanLuc
love how the msm keeps saying
its only a small amount of people.

edit on 27-9-2012 by CaptainJeanLuc because: (no reason given)

I actually just changed my home page from Google news to Bing News as google doesn't make mention of it, and has an article about a big budget vote today (with no mention of riots) while bing has this as a "Top story".

God bless the Bing Algorithem. LOL. I"m done with Google and it's censorship.

I'm in Spain and recently there has been a much larger Guardia Civil presence where I am. The local police have more than quadrupled their numbers this year. even though there is no money for anything else.
They have been primarily winding everyone up. Spanish and foriegn nationals alike.
They seem to be deliberatley bending and breaking the rules giving out on the spot fines, trespassing and searching people constantly.
There are Guardia Civil checkpoints sporaddically on all major exits to the town where I am. And of course with lots of people going to Madrid (and now Cordoba, Granada and Sevilla) they have been having a field day. If they notice you have sleeping bags, camping equipment, food and clothes in the car they want to know where you are going. God forbid if they get an inkling you might be going to protest. Then it's everyone out of the car and prepare for a big search. You will have to replace the door panels yourself.
Interestingly since the riots There have been No controls and my town seems bereft of Guardia, one of my friends says they have been told to back off for a bit. But i think its because we've got very heavy rain the first since May and they're worried about getting wet.
If anyone saw an Earlier post about the police coming on my land for abandoned vehicles, well they took one, but luckily i had it registered as being off road and had paid the tax up to date. Hopefully I can use this against them. tee hee

Originally posted by 46ACE
"Hope" for what?
The fall of Europe into anarchy?

You say it like it's a bad thing

Originally posted by 46ACE
The complete devaluation of the Euro?

Implying that hasn't already happened with money all over the world.

Originally posted by Egyptia
reply to post by JimIrie

 

There is something I grew up with being Spanish. When Spaniards feel they have been lied to or screwed then all bets are off and all fights are on! What is happening in Madrid doesn't surprise me in the least.

I live in Madrid. Unfortunately I can tell you the worse stage of crisis effects for spanish people has not yet reached.
We've got a really serious finantial-economical problem but the source in fact (and the solution) it's politics.

40% of

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by Tardacus
The protesters should take paintball guns to the protest and shoot the police with paintballs.

can you imagine getting hit with hundreds or even thousands of paintballs?It`s hard to beat protesters if you can see anything because you`re covered in paint

And at what point would police differentiate between a paintball gun and a real ammunition gun?

Inncoent people WOULD get shot and the police would have their justification for using firearms.

Bad idea, and if you'd thought about it from anything but a humourous perspective you would agree.

edit on 26/9/2012 by nerbot because: (no reason given)

Like nerbot said, it is a bad idea. This would just give the pigs an excuse to bring out the live rounds. I'm sure they'd love that, wouldn't they?

A better method would be to spraypaint the clear visor on a cops helmet if he gets close enough to you.

reply to post by DJOldskool

. Globalisation is a good long term goal but you need to get rid of the huge inequalities first and do it very slowly. Otherwise you dont help other contries poor rise up to our levels, you begin to make us as poor as them

Yep....it's kinda like what another ATSer mentioned about democracy.....he/she said that democracy only works in countries that have achieved a certain level of education/literacy. I agree.....so before we try to go about globalizing the entire planet, we need to get all countries up to speed on the basics first.....

As far as bringing revolution to Europe, I do think they could handle it....but not if it becomes violent revolution. That is like you said, a power vacuum is created and said "psychopath" fills in that void. It has to be a process of revolution, more of a restructuring, like you suggested, but this whole "wave of sudden upheaval" talk makes me nervous. I love Europe, spent a lot of time there.....if there were genuine chaos.....think of everything that could be lost......humans lives alone, but then add in architecture, art, the old world itself....there is nothing like that anywhere else in the world. It would be maddness.

I do not want to see people dying, historical treasures ruined, there has to be other ways than that, and I'd hope the people and especially the police of these european nations like Spain will come to their senses and not allow protesters to get hurt or allow their own beautiful nations to be destroyed.

I have no answers either, but I liked your suggestions....maybe start a thread of your own on that thought, cause your message might get lost in this thread, I've seen it happen to a lot of interesting thoughts here on ATS.

reply to post by flice


Banks should be government property after failure.. And the loans of the bankers dramatically lowered to normal living standards..

reply to post by DJOldskool


Ecellent post, and I pretty much agree with everything you say.

A couple of things that really concerned me today while reading through the opinions of people in Spain on the problems they face...

Two out of the four commenters were thinking about emigrating. They didn't say where to, but this is plausibly going to be the UK or Germany. Neither will take that influx of people very well. Theresa May in the UK has already announced that they will be looking into restricting entry to the UK in the coming years because they fear there will be a mass migration from mainland Europe.

The second thing was mention of the extreme right. Some apparently fear that Spain will fall to an ultra nationalist government, because people only have so many choices and both the main parties are insisting on continuing the corruption and extraction of wealth from the people to the banksters.

There are no easy solutions here, but I think the time has long passed to hit the reset button. When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is STOP DIGGING. But all of our governments are continuing to dig, with a gun to their heads, held by the globalists.

Governments have corporate interests and banksters calling the shots, threatening a collapse of the markets if they don't comply. Yes, it would hurt millions of people, but allowing the collapse to happen and telling those globalists to F off would cause less harm to the majority. The people running the show are not part of the majority, they're part of the elitist club. Therefore, they are looking out for themselves first, and their secret little clubs of bankers and CEO's.

I really do think it's going to take action by the peoples of these countries to fix this. I think it's inevitable that when Spain ends its social welfare systems (which they are already planning to do) people will have no choice but to have a revolution. These people have paid into their system all their lives, and now there are no jobs they are being told that the money they have put in has gone.

As Mr Celente often says - when people lose everything and they have nothing left to lose, they lose it.

Austerity can only go so far. Seeing government placing all the responsibility on the lower and middle classes, while refusing to make any sacrifices themselves, or force the wealthy to accept an equal share of the burden, will cause a rage the likes of which Europe has never seen.

Originally posted by Vaedur

Originally posted by CaptainJeanLuc
love how the msm keeps saying
its only a small amount of people.

edit on 27-9-2012 by CaptainJeanLuc because: (no reason given)

I actually just changed my home page from Google news to Bing News as google doesn't make mention of it, and has an article about a big budget vote today (with no mention of riots) while bing has this as a "Top story".

God bless the Bing Algorithem. LOL. I"m done with Google and it's censorship.

Nevermind, Bing went to page can not be displayed for like a minute or two, and i come back to it, and now all mention of spain is gone. LOL.

reply to post by Vaedur


There you go, you let the "cat out of the bag" and someone acted on it.
Incidently CAN anyone see my posts? Im in SPAIN FFS but it's like im being ignored.

reply to post by detachedindividual


I love Britain and Germany both, but my plans for going to Europe are on indefinite hold for a minute, you could say. Not that it will neccessarily be any better or safer here in the US though. we are ready to implode as well I think.

I do get nervous at the thought of mass revolution, all at once in Europe....the continent doesn't have the best track record with sudden upheaval, and of course this time could be different, but in general, causing mass change without a good back up plan....well, it's not my style anyways.

But, I do agree that you can't have 40% youth unemployment and people losing their retirement and think its okay to just give yourself another bonus....it is heartbreaking and flies in the face of not only decency but logic, IMO.