Actual question, not trolling: Why do Christians support a Jewish-run Israel?

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posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 




My best friend is Jewish. We have religious discussions all the time and she does believe that Christianity is out of Judaism, that to her, Jesus was a Jewish rabbi. I have had many discussions with other Jewish people and they all accept that Jesus was Jewish. They just don't accept Him as the Messiah, but that does not mean they never will. Of course they will, because the Bible declares it will happen. People need to have a little more faith in God's promises.


Well, jews do accept Jesus as a jew... but stop short of accepting him as messiah. Some even insult him calling him a false prophet and such.

The religion of the Jews is also the only religion I know of, that is theologically opposed to Jesus. Jesus wasn't just any jew...he was the messiah and poses a direct challenge to their religious beliefs.. because a core concept of Judaism is that the messiah is yet to arrive. A jew who accepts Jesus as messiah, instantly stops being a jew.

There are even websites run by jews for the specific purpose of countering Christian missionaries....not muslim fundamentalists (who are constantly portrayed as their worst enemies)... but Christian missionaries.

www.jewsforjudaism.org...
www.beingjewish.com...
www.outreachjudaism.org...




posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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I'll just have to say this blunt, they are fake Jews!

The verses in the Bible claimed to support the prophesy in 1948 'gathering of fake Jews' if understood correctly will tell you, it has not happened yet!

For the People of Israel will only be gathered when God, the Father of Jesus is now their God and they will never be uprooted....

Why were the original Israelites uprooted and scattered in the first place??? Because they disobeyed the Laws!!!!

Why will the future Israelites gathered and no longer uprooted??? Because the New Covenant has been written in their hearts and no longer departed from it!!!!

Does the current State of (fake) Israel and all the fake Jews around the world looks like the New Covenant has been written in their hearts??? NO!!!

The fake Israel had $$$$money$$$$ written all over their faces - remember, you cannot serve two master, you will love the one and hate the other, you cannot serve both God and money!!!

They did not show any change!!! They were $$$$ before they were gathered and now still $$$$. Understand your Bible pls!! Pray for the Holy Spirit for understanding!! Not support Israel because yo uthink you will get $$$$. Then you serve money NOT God!!



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by ahnggk
I'll just have to say this blunt, they are fake Jews!

The verses in the Bible claimed to support the prophesy in 1948 'gathering of fake Jews' if understood correctly will tell you, it has not happened yet!

For the People of Israel will only be gathered when God, the Father of Jesus is now their God and they will never be uprooted....

Why were the original Israelites uprooted and scattered in the first place??? Because they disobeyed the Laws!!!!

Why will the future Israelites gathered and no longer uprooted??? Because the New Covenant has been written in their hearts and no longer departed from it!!!!

Does the current State of (fake) Israel and all the fake Jews around the world looks like the New Covenant has been written in their hearts??? NO!!!

The fake Israel had $$$$money$$$$ written all over their faces - remember, you cannot serve two master, you will love the one and hate the other, you cannot serve both God and money!!!

They did not show any change!!! They were $$$$ before they were gathered and now still $$$$. Understand your Bible pls!! Pray for the Holy Spirit for understanding!! Not support Israel because yo uthink you will get $$$$. Then you serve money NOT God!!


What is a fake Jew? And why do you assume I think I am going to get money for supporting them? Are you saying God is unable to perform the prophecies given?



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by cetaphobic
Why is it that so many Christians and conservatives support a Jewish-run Israel, basically being 100% behind wiping out Islam? Do they not think that Israel will then turn against Christians? If they can't play well with one religion, they won't be able to play well with any religion.


Essentially a nation of Israel was prophesied to be restored to the area that had been Israel and Judah. This nation of Israel appears to be the fulfillment of prophesy. The problem with Muslims is that they believe that Islam is the replacement for Judaism and Christianity. To have Old Testament prophesies start being fulfilled is anathema to Muslims. If they are not the replacement for Judaism then what else is a lie in their religion?

Islam could collapse faster than the USSR if it's proven a false religion.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by ntech
 




This nation of Israel appears to be the fulfillment of prophesy


It only appears to be the fulfillment of prophesy... just like how the anti-christ will appear to be the messiah.

The modern state of Israel is NOT the biblical Israel, as Christians imagine it to be.
Instead the state of Israel was founded on the idea of Zionism, an ideology that is ANYTHING but biblical. Its founders were atheists and marxists.

Israel has no fear of God and has no more use for His laws and relies on its state-of-the-art military, western support and upper hand in global politics. And 33% (2 million Israelis) identify themselves as secular atheists.

Israel even hosts gay pride parades...


Gay pride events are held annually in major cities, INCLUDING Jerusalem . LGBT societies are active, and Tel Aviv is an internationally promoted center for Gay tourism


check this out


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Do you seriously believe that this modern secular mess was the "fulfillment of prophesy?"
edit on 26-9-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





It only appears to be the fulfillment of prophesy... just like how the anti-christ will appear to be the messiah.

The modern state of Israel is NOT the biblical Israel, as Christians imagine it to be.


Israel will be the fulfillment of prophecy, it's just that not all of the prophecies have been fulfilled yet, but many have.

It doesn't matter what the modern state of Israel is. God will deal with them on this issue, it's not for us to judge.

According to the Bible, two thirds of Israel will be cut off and the other third will be taken into the new Millennium in order to multiply and build a great nation again (with Jesus as their ruler), the way that God wanted them to from the beginning.

Everything that's happening now is all Biblical, whether you think Christians should be supporting them now or not. We know what's going on. We know what's going to happen. The results are going to be the same whether we support Israel or not. Until such time, we are to continue to do what God asks of us. God will take care of the rest.

Just as an example, we may know that our own government is corrupt, but that doesn't mean that God expects us to quit paying our taxes either.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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Most Christians support the secular state calling itself "Israel" because they have been hoodwinked from the pulpit and through theo-illogical publications by ministers and authors who the Jews bought off, beginning with C.I. Scofield.

I have said this before on this site, and I say it again: Most Jews in the world today (~90%) are descended from the Kazars, and the genetic evidence is now coming in line with the historical evidence provided by Arthur Koestler, a member of that race. The Kazars are a branch of the Turkic peoples, descendants of Japheth not Shem. These people were never in Palestine, never had a land covenant with YHVH/God, and thus have no valid claim to the land today. The whole claim is based on bad history, bad theology, and the emotional force of the "Holocaust."

Once you realise this, that these people are Jews who say they are Jews, but are not, everything begins to fall into place.

Naturally, I am not foolish enough to say that all Jews fall into this category, as some do have some descent from Judah/Israel.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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I have been pondering , thinking as a christian how i should view Israel, posted a thread on this forum here,

so ive been looking deeper into this, and a lot came up about the Zion state of Israel, the Rothschild s control of the west. US

And i know many in Israel protest about the Zion state saying it is the enemy of Judaism.

in the end times its written two thirds of Israel will be taken out, and its also said the anti christ will rule from Jerusalem. , may all ready be. Zionists ?

SO SUPPORTING THE ZIONEST STATE OF ISRAEL, WE COULD BE IN REALITY SUPPORTING THE ANTI CHRIST NWO

i have just asked who is wielding the real power in this world, in the secret society forum, the queen, Freemasons, William soon to be King. the pope Vatican black pope grey pope, jesuits, or Obama Zionists.

Some people say the Rothschilds are the vaticans bankers, Lucifers high priests in the Illuminati ect .

Often mentioned to s the 13 blood lines in the illuminati, the council of 13.

free masons council of 33

in the unhived mind other blood lines are also mentioned

Now we come to the real omega point of control over this global conspiracy as we find the Papal Nobility bloodlines of old going back to the Ptolemaic dynasty era of Egypt. Notice who commissioned the Knights of the Virgin Mary IHS as the Society of Jesus and this was Alessandro Farnese. These are most powerful bloodlines in existence such as the House of Aldobrandini along with the House of Orsini. The Knights of the Virgin Mary IHS are merely a gatekeeper for this level of hidden power. The Borgia family also came within this level along with the Medici. Note how the Medici were bred into the Orsini bloodline for status. Now the connection of the Borghese to the Aldobrandini bloodline. These are what you may wish to term the Grey Knights or the Supèrieur Inconnu.

theunhivedmind.com...

Then my other thought was some say the Assyrian anti christ will be jewish others islamic,

some mention the mad hi

so im thinking if the Zionists Rothchilds serve lucifer.

and people see Islam as the beast, why is satan attacking satan,

the Zionist serving lucifer Islamic forces would both want the true Israel wiped out , the spiritual Israel.

then i watched a video explaining all the power the queen has,

but i was lead to believe the Vatican, square mile London, Columbia Washington, was controlled and owned by the knights Templar,

the knights of Malta,

also that it was the Vatican that owned the bank of England , central and federal reserves.

whose playing who ? whose bowing to who. what is their relationship to the Zionist state of Israel. ?



edit on 26-9-2012 by dwarfflex because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



A jew who accepts Jesus as messiah, instantly stops being a jew


Accepting Christ doesn't make them a nonjew. The apostles were still jews, nothing changed except they no longer needed sin sacrifices and burnt offerings to make peace with God, that obligation was fulfilled at the cross.

However today it's not uncommon to see a messianic jew go to a christian church, they are not welcome at synogogues because they are viewed as apostates and idolaters who turned their back on their tradition and their community even though they did no such thing, they just recognized who their Messiah is and they still do the feastdays and seders, and have menorah but the obligation for sacrifice is gone and that is the entire point of the teearing of the veil between the Holy of Holies and for the destruction of the second temple, it wasn't needed anymore.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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listening to David Silver out of Zion ministry's, he said he became more Jewish when he came to Jesus.

if you follow Islam you are a Muslim Budda a Bud dist,

could it be said Christians are Israelites ?



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 




However today it's not uncommon to see a messianic jew go to a christian church, they are not welcome at synogogues because they are viewed as apostates and idolaters who turned their back on their tradition and their community even though they did no such thing


The reason why a jew who accepts Jesus as messiah is rejected by his people is because being a Jew rests on the question of the messiah. Jesus is that big red line between being "Christian" and "Jew".

As you know the jews deny Jesus is the Christ / messiah. So it makes the jewish state collectively anti-christian. In Israel 33% of the population are atheists.... and the remaining jews follow a religion that is directly opposed to Jesus. This makes Israel literally an anti-christian state.

Also, Israel is not too fond of "messianic jews". In their eyes, a messianic jew is perceived as a Christian. They will tolerate an atheist of jewish heritage, but are not too fond of a jew who accepts Jesus as the messiah.

en.wikipedia.org...

According to the Central Conference of American Rabbis...


"For us in the Jewish community, anyone who claims that Jesus is their savior is no longer a Jew and is an apostate. Through that belief she has placed herself outside the Jewish community. Whether she cares to define herself as a Christian or as a 'fulfilled Jew,' 'Messianic Jew,' or any other designation is irrelevant; to us, she is clearly a Christian."



I happened across a sign board sponsored by a Church this morning...It had 1 John 2:22 on it....

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.


So its clear where the jews stand in Jesus' eyes? And nowhere did Jesus ever say that jews are exempt when it comes to denying Jesus as the Christ.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by dwarfflex
 




could it be said Christians are Israelites ?


Ok, but what kind of christians? The catholics? protestants? JWs? Mormons? Which group?

You guys keep calling each other heretics all the time. Who am I to believe? Will the true(TM) Christians please stand up?



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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People need to start looking at the bigger picture.

The whole "real Jew", "fake Jew" argument is a worthless one.

What we do know is that Israel is currently working as a buffer against radical Muslims. If anyone of you thinks that removing Israel's current power in the Middle East is going to change that, you're dead wrong.

If the Muslims come in and take over the land of Israel, the next step will be to create a "Muslim State" and a new Caliphate. Who do you think is going to rule over that Caliphate? The Sunnis and Shias will NEVER come to an agreement on this issue and they will kill each other trying to determine which one will have power and rule from Jerusalem (their ultimate goal).

In the meanwhile, any Jews AND Arabs will be trampled in the process, not to mention most of the Shias will be trampled because the Sunnis far outnumber the Shias. So, now, presume that the Sunnis take control over the Middle East and maybe things start to appear somewhat quiet and normal (because everyone is controlled?). What do you think their next focus will be? Well, the only thing left to focus on is their religion...and spreading it. Do you think it's possible for a moderate Muslim to be a leader of a Caliphate? Do you think they'll try to expand Islam in the West? Do you think they're capable of doing it peacefully and without interfering with other nations' laws and be respectful of other religions?

Which brings me back to my original thought. Having Israel as a power in the Middle East is the only thing keeping any of this in check, for now.

In the end, you only trade Zionism for radical Islam. Which is it? Do you think that the trade off would be better? Do you really think you can contain radical Islam to the Middle East once Islam is in control of all of it?

From the looks of things, the group most likely to take over and put this Caliphate into motion is the Muslim Brotherhood. Do you consider them radical? Or not?

Edit to Add: Look at what's happening to Abbas right now as head of the Palestinian Authority. He's a moderate and he's about to get his butt kicked by Hamas.
edit on 26-9-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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According to Biblical prophesies:

By the time the People of Israel are Gathered, the New Covenant (Law) is written in their hearts. Does the State of Israel look like it?? NO!!!

By the time the People of Israel are Gathered, the Father of Jesus is their God. Does the State of Israel look like it?? NO!!! Their God is $$$money$$$ and their weapons!!

Do you Christians even know your Bible????

Has even the Holy Spirit come into you, or the Spirit of the Antichrist???

"When the Spirit came upon them, their understanding of the scriptures were opened!!!"

Why are you so afraid of Muslims!!!!

There is no love in fear!!!!!

Therefore YOU DO NOT LOVE!!!!!!
edit on 26-9-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 


Yes, we know our scripture!

What does your post have to do with supporting Israel in order to try and hold off radical Muslims a little bit longer? Do you think we should let them march straight to Jerusalem now?

If so, just say so.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


By the way, are you hearing any reports that Jews are killing Messianic Jews because of it?



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined

Do you think we should let them march straight to Jerusalem now?


I really don't care.

Understand your Bible.

It will also tell you NOT to care!!

We belong in the New Covenant now. What to do when there's a storm?? You get a nice sleep


The real Christians are the best sleepers when things really rough!!



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by cetaphobic
 


Because of the Abrahamic Covenant.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by ahnggk

I really don't care.

Understand your Bible.

It will also tell you NOT to care!!


Easier said than done, but God's will be done anyway.


We belong in the New Covenant now. What to do when there's a storm?? You get a nice sleep


The real Christians are the best sleepers when things really rough!!


Personally, I was hoping for a rapture instead of becoming one of those "which are fallen asleep in Christ", but once again, God's will be done!



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 



By the way, are you hearing any reports that Jews are killing Messianic Jews because of it?


Nope.

But I do hear reports of Jews calling Jesus a "bastard" and a "false prophet".

But, I'm sure you, like most Christians, believe its all OK.... after all, those who bless them are blessed, right?





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