Finally, a swedish Politician speaks on chemtrails in our skies!

reply to post by Char-Lee


With this link you can follow all of the flights that fly over or near Brookings, OR:

flightaware.com...

It isn't a lot compared to farther inland...but to say you get "no" commercial traffic overhead is just not an accurate statement.

As far as you observation...I am not saying it isn't accurate but I have heard A LOT of claims of the "same plane turning around" and yet in 10yrs no one has ever filmed this happening...

Not saying it didn't with you...but wanted to clarify that you saw the plane make a u-turn and the contrail also made a "U" shape in its appearance....

Also, can you clarify whether or not you understand that "normal" contrails can persist and spread...

thanks!

Great thread, but I thought this was all common knowledge? The history channel has proved it true on a few documentaries. Heck, even my college Science book mentions that Russia and China have been doing this for quite sometime.
It says that China actually shot capsules into the atmosphere to prevent rain from disturbing the olympics.

reply to post by Bodhi911

reply to post by flyswatter


My husband said they were military, they looked military to me because they were pointy and not white, but I am no expert, he seems to know about aircraft. They also sounded different then the small personal jets and the commuter jets that come to the Crescent City airport.

I never said they were spraying anything, but the grid remained in the sky all perfect never did leave, fattened up or the trails actually widened , and our wonderful sunny day turned all gray withing hours.

Since that day we have seen blue skies receive trails where the planes and once a single plane hit the mountain and double back in loops perfect lines until they cover the sky, it then gets clouded over. twice more.

reply to post by cbaskins


your confusing cloud seeding with supposed "chemtrails"

Cloud seeding is very real...not secret and been done for decades...

"Chemtrails"??....well, lets just say the jury is till out..or at least waiting for actual evidence

Originally posted by Thorazine
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

With this link you can follow all of the flights that fly over or near Brookings, OR:

flightaware.com...

It isn't a lot compared to farther inland...but to say you get "no" commercial traffic overhead is just not an accurate statement.

As far as you observation...I am not saying it isn't accurate but I have heard A LOT of claims of the "same plane turning around" and yet in 10yrs no one has ever filmed this happening...

Not saying it didn't with you...but wanted to clarify that you saw the plane make a u-turn and the contrail also made a "U" shape in its appearance....

Also, can you clarify whether or not you understand that "normal" contrails can persist and spread...

thanks!

The planes made a U the contrails made a U the one ending E-W went above the mountains in the East and could not see their end, but on the West swing they went a little out to sea then turned and made a U, it seemed the town was the aim and to the mountains in the East, that's like 4-5 miles I would think, they stopped and turned just at the edge of town to the North but went all the way to the town of Smith River to the South. We drove to Smith river and could see the U's overhead where the plane turned. But we could actually see the plane as it made the turns and lines, they finished really fast with the whole sky.

reply to post by Char-Lee


Interesting...

But you didn't answer the question about your knowledge of contrail behavior...

Are you aware that normal contrails can persist, spread and cover the sky?

So, it is quite possible that what you saw was simply military training flights that happen to leave persistent contrails.

Don't you agree?

Originally posted by Thorazine
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Interesting...

But you didn't answer the question about your knowledge of contrail behavior...

Are you aware that normal contrails can persist, spread and cover the sky?

So, it is quite possible that what you saw was simply military training flights that happen to leave persistent contrails.

Don't you agree?

I thought about what could be the purpose. I can't see why they would train over town. To the East there is miles and miles of wilderness both over the mountains and on the other side in the valley all with nothing but empty space.

I have never seen the regular jets leave trails that last like those, and they were not even flying real high as you could clearly see the aircraft not just their trail.

There is the possibility that they have a purpose that is benign but I have no trust of the government. So why not leave the conspiracy theory open also and try to see if there may be a reason that is not so benign? That is what I would like to follow and see to a conclusion if possible because I cannot find a reason. The people of Brookings are mostly old retired, they are a "drain on the system". Could they be hurrying them along?

But then the other two times was in crescent City CA, across the border, and here we have mostly welfare, young with a dozen kids.

I don't know maybe they are protecting areas of high solar influence during flares and the UV charts around the nation have been off the scale this summer. it is still a six now www.epa.gov...

we have radiation coming from Japan could it be something to do with that as you can see here this is where it first comes in www.zamg.ac.at...

Could it be because we sit right on the most destructive possible earthquake spot and they monitor the magnetic field somehow...they have been warning us weekly here.
myshasta.info...

But NO because so many others have described the same thing, they are not over retirement villages or along the West coast so what am I to think?

reply to post by Char-Lee


You seem to be avoiding reality of normal persistent contrails...why?

Its a very straight forward question:

Are you aware the normal contrails as a result of normal air traffic can and often do persist, spread and cover the sky?

Military planes are not immune to atmospheric physics...they can leave persistent contrails just like any other plane.

Why do you think the trail were the purpose of their flight and not merely their exhaust freezing like other planes?

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

ARE YOU BLIND???
Do you see any of those along the coast... at all!!?

That is 1 snapshot at a particular time - and visibility from ground level is about 200 miles - something 10, 20, 30, 50 miles away can look quite close - see www.abovetopsecret.com...

A contrail 10 miles away can still look very much "right overhead".

Can you READ
you say"the wind can blow them into a grid "
I told you a dozen times We SAW them make the GRID!

Yes - and? did yuo see the wind at their altitude?

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by flyswatter

 

My husband said they were military, they looked military to me because they were pointy and not white, but I am no expert, he seems to know about aircraft. They also sounded different then the small personal jets and the commuter jets that come to the Crescent City airport.

A lot of commercial planes aren't white, and a lot appear white. There are some military planes that are painted to look like a commercial plane, and a number of military planes that are exactly the same on the exterior as a civilian plane.

They sounded different because they were bigger. It has been pointed out with flightaware that there really IS commercial traffic over your head. I looked earlier today, and there were four or five commercial flights within 50-75 miles of you. A couple of those could leave contrails that could easily be seen by you on the ground.

reply to post by waynos

Who's opinion? The website author that posted that story and pictures in order to fool people into thinking that he'd found a chemtrail plane WAS talking crap, or did you think it was directed to char-lee, who merely posted the link? I wouldn't do that.

My sincere apologies.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle

 

Naysayers aren't being myopic utopians who think everything is perfect, as chemtrail believers always like to portray. Its just that fixating on contrails is barking up the wrong tree.

I see it as two different arguments that unfortunately keep getting jammed together quite wrongly. For example the geo-engineering items you posted above are worthy of further study and what happens in this field in the future is of genuine concern to us all. We need to keep up to speed with these proposals and any experiments that result from them, it might well have unforeseen detrimental effects just as past experiments have. No arguments at all there.

However, as soon as anyone starts bleating about persistent visible trails in the sky in relation to geo engineering and saying "its not how contrails behave" and "they are spraying right now where i live" they have simply demonstrated ignorance and thrown away any credibility their argument might otherwise hold.

They can hardly expect to have their views about trails taken seriously when they openly show they don't actually know anything about contrails ,aviation or the atmosphere, which, unfortunately, is every single time they post for some.

I would like to think that many questioning souls have learned some genuine scientific truths, maybe from coming here, and as a result I am sure their search for nefarious activity has become more focussed as a result.

Actually I think you are correct. The trails themselves, indicated by the research linked in the quotes in my other post, are not typically the real problem -- NASA et al already know and understand that particles released from the polar regions find a much better distribution pattern than locally placed stuff. Because of the nature of the atmosphere at different heights. There are different kinds of prevailing winds just like the ocean is expected to have currents.

The jet stream is a good example -- people were worried about Fukushima radiation reaching USA via the jet stream. Back during WW2, the Japanese were using it to send balloons across the Pacific ocean with propaganda inside to discourage Americans who read the leaflets LMAO. You would not believe the hare-brained schemes humans have come up with in the past.

Why can't we agree that the future is going to be very interesting? I mean, if Archimedes of Syracuse could burn the sails off of a boat with a few pieces of glass, don't you think that modern aircraft are capable of altering layers of the atmosphere? I don't think it's far fetched. In fact, some radar applications utilize metallic particulates. Not just "friendly" and "benign" things like water and silver (which actually damages soil!).

Sulfates are the most talked about "solution" to the faux dilemma of climate change. They also cause harm to human health. It's never good to breathe smoke, ash, particulate... why would you choose to breathe or be exposed to something that came from a volcano, when most volcanic products are initially deadly to humans?

I am contesting the science behind the belief that Sulfates are the answer to anything but the need for more money. I am also questioning the morality of spraying regions that didn't ask for rain or shine, but want to be left alone. Nature is not a curse, it's a gift, and people underestimate the balance of nature and how important it is to remain so.

Climate change is a hot debate. Geo-engineering might not be NECESSARY in the first place, yet we know that billions are being spent trying.

People who are interested in this topic should also read about other scenarios, like Hurricane Direction, ocean enrichment, etc. There is more than one way to skin a cat. So to speak.

you might also want to check out Methane Clathrates and the Clathrate Gun Hypothesis, the presence of methane as a factor in anoxic events and severe climate change.

Yes, I can certainly agree with that and I am already aware of some of the things you mentioned. The bottom line, for me, is simply that whatever the reality of geoengineering ultimately proves to be, I am 100% sure from my own research and knowledge that looking to contrails is a complete red herring and it frustrates me that so many cannot see it. All this business about looking up is complete nonsense.

To find an analogy that illustrates my view, I was going to say it's like someone died in the bath of a heart attack brought on by eating junk food and people blame the blue shampoo bottle on the shelf next to him because they never remembered seeing blue shampoo before. If that makes sense, lol.

If stuff does get released from planes in conjunction with geoengineering operations, I am sure it would not be visible at all and it is pretty much impossible for it to look like a contrail, but a basic understanding is need to grasp why and I am not eloquent enough to get this across despite my many attempts.

So when you see me arguing with people who claim that "contrails don't do that" this is the reason why

reply to post by miniatus
would a application form for the chemtrail buisness be evidence for you positions.dri.edu...

Originally posted by Pete252
reply to post by miniatus

 

would a application form for the chemtrail buisness be evidence for you positions.dri.edu...

Perhaps yuo could cut& paste a bit from it - I get a page that has no apparent relevance


Edit - found something through searching tho -

Director of the DRI Weather Modification Program, Assistant/Associate Research Professor

what about it is evidence of chemtrails??

The successful candidate will need to have sufficient experience to play a leadership role in the operational and managerial aspects of ongoing and potential future projects involved in glaciogenic cloud seeding of winter storms over mountainous terrain.

and

Research topic areas will depend on the candidate's specific expertise. Some possibilities include aerosol and cloud microphysical studies, cloud modeling, remote sensing, or statistical studies of meteorological variables related to cloud seeding operations or research. The candidate should have experience with project management, particularly management of field research projects involving ground-based, aircraft and remote sensing measurement platforms.

So cloudseeding - sigh....for the umpteenth time - cloudseeding doesn't leave long white trails across the sky, isn't done in a clear sky (you need clouds to be seeded!!), isn't done at high altitudes, isn't done by airliners, isn't secret.

reply to The GUT from closed thread

Here's the thing, Aloysius, our government has a long history of spraying stuff in the atmosphere with little regard for the health-effects these various tests and/or operations have on isolated--or even broad--sections of it's populations.

From aerial nuclear tests of the past to spraying questionable agents in other populations as zero lift has successfully debated you on in awesome ATS family member loam's most-excellent SHOCKING: US Government tested radioactive gas on citizens in St. Louis.

And you think we should have no concerns in these areas? There's no denying they are spraying stuff. What for? How many different reasons, or substances, or "tests?"

I can't imagine what kind of responsible, mature, citizen wouldn't have reason to be concerned about the subject.

Please don't do the "chicken side-step" You obviously have an intellect, what part of the above doesn't suggest logic...and wisdom?

Yes, you are correct, there is a record of your, and my, govt spraying (and generally using) materials that subsequently prove to be less than desirable. This is true.

You will struggle to find one single post from any 'debunker' anywhere on this forum that says we shouldn't have concerns in these areas. Not one.

However you refer to logic and wisdom.

In what way are these qualities displayed by those who wilfully misrepresent contrails (you know, cannot persist and spread, quickly dissipate, that sort of stuff)?

Or by those who post photos of military tankers, firefighting aircraft and test prototypes and label them as chemtrail aircraft? Not alleged or suspected, but PROOF, when it is actually a lie.

Or those who write that aluminium has been found in soil, when the miracle would be if it wasn't?

Or the myriad other lies that the disinfo specialists trot out in order to pull people into a fear that cannot and has not been proven?

Even the act of talking about geoengineering and chemtrailing as if it is one and the same is just spreading more lies and misinformation.

Why, in your opinion, does the mere fact that we cannot trust anything our politicians say (except, apparently, if one of them says chemtrails are real, ironically) mean that all requirements for real evidence of any activity actually taking place are suspended?

Ice cores could be sampled, for example, any spraying activity would be definitely, 100% revealed if this was done. Private companies offer aircraft designed especially for air sampling, these could easily be routed through any trails lingering in the sky, they don't have to be trailing the actual aircraft, chemtrails persist for hours, so the saying goes.

Why hasn't anybody that is pushing chemtrail theory for profit (Jones, Thomas, Carnicom etc) actually done ANY of this in the last 20 years?

They have however managed to fund two fictional movies which pretend to be scientific. Those guys aren't idiots. This must surely be a deliberate tactic, no?

So apply logic and wisdom into figuring that out.

We know about the the geoengineering theories, the discussions, the proposed experiments etc. We would all do well to monitor this, take our chances when they present themselves to have our voices heard, to call for the release and study of all relevant information etc.

But then a sizeable portion of our members go and spoil it all by pointing at contrails and screaming "chemtrails!" like undereducated retards.

And it fills me with dismay.

reply to post by Pete252


You think cloud seeding is chemtrails. Nuff said.

reply to post by waynos


I didnt' think to cut & paste from that thrwead - duh, so I sent Gut a msg by U2U.....

another thing about "they did it in the past so they are doing it now" is that it cannot possibly be proof of anything on its own - a good reason for suspicion maybe - but proof? Nah.

Here's a list of some things that "they did in the past" that I'm pretty sure they are not doing now in various places ...although i'm sure there are some people would love to return to at least some of those good ol' days!:

1/ chattel slavery in the USA
2/ legal "marital rape"
3/ gassing Jews, gays, Roma, mentally handicapped, etc
4/ dropping nuclear weapons on Japan
5/ the Roman empire
6/ crucifying/burning christians &/or throwing to the lions

I'm sure you can think of more - every one of them illustrates the fallacy of the argument.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
when did they ever "just.... vanish away"???

Dam gaul i didn't know you were handicap. I normally don't go around picking on BLIND folks but in your case I will certainly make an exception. I knew you were mentally challenged thus the reason you'd be puzzled 'puz'

Look up.... ahh duh, and you will see 1 immediately disappearing while others remain and expand.

But you already knew all of this.... right dog...

Sorry but some piss poor black and white photo proves diddly squat. We have thousands of pics with 2 jets at about the same altitude. 1 laying chems and the other disappearing right away and you and the disinfo gang dismiss them straight away. So ah yeah, considered your photo dismissed....

Thanks!
Gokill

Originally posted by GoKill

Dam gaul i didn't know you were handicap. I normally don't go around picking on BLIND folks but in your case I will certainly make an exception. I knew you were mentally challenged thus the reason you'd be puzzled 'puz'

Look up.... ahh duh, and you will see 1 immediately disappearing while others remain and expand.

no - I see 100% cloud cover.

But even if I saw that, then so what -

But you already knew all of this.... right dog...

All what? that some contrails fade rapidly while others do not?? True - do you know it yet?

Sorry but some piss poor black and white photo proves diddly squat. We have thousands of pics with 2 jets at about the same altitude.

how do you know 2 jets in a photo are at "about the same altitude? You can't possibly know that just from a photo - classic chemtrial disinfo caught in the act!!

1 laying chems and the other disappearing right away and you and the disinfo gang dismiss them straight away.

well I've already established that you are spreading disinfo - you are saying you know stuff that you cannot possibly know.

when I see 2 jets leaving different trails I think it is probably because they are at different altitudes because that is known as a reason for hte phenomena to occur.

We know it has happened in the past - heck we even know that 2 jets at the SAME altitude can generate different contrails -



and, jsut for you, it's not "just" a photo - someone actually spent the money required to study the phenomena, document it and make it public

how come no-one who beleives in chemtrails is willing to do any real research like this???

So ah yeah, considered your photo dismissed....

Thanks!
Gokill

The post was in response to Dollukka posting:

Trails just don´t vanish away like they used to.. hmmm

It seems to me that a photo from 1944 or 1945 showing that contrails did not "just....vanish" is completely erlevant.

did you have some actual evidence that justifies your dismissal of it - facts, figures, studies - that annoying stuff - or do you consider all that ad hom stuff to be good enough for your purposes??

I won't be offended if you dont' have any evidence of course - that is par for the course for pushers of this particular myth.