Finally, a swedish Politician speaks on chemtrails in our skies!

reply to post by miniatus


oh alright then..

you haven't found anything so it must be false.

meanwhile, back in the real world..

the military use of radar jamming techniques is very much a reality.



i suggest you keep looking.. Air Force, Navy personnel, etc..

after all.. the cleanest skies in recent American history was in the days after 911 when the

planes were all grounded..

(except for the Bin Laden Family leaving of course)

but you probably knew that also..

reply to post by WeRpeons

I don't mean someone sitting behind a desk and giving some kind of atmospheric condition that causes it, but actually flying in a plane and filming one of these wide chemtrails. Maybe even following the plane in for a landing to check out the plane that created the chemtrail on the ground.

I have to ask how does one tell the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail?

How does one follow a chemtrail plane that is spraying something that doesn't exist?

reply to post by WeRpeons


I wouldn't know about that because we don't have myth busters in the UK (on any channels I get), but I wanted to address the point you made about suddenly noticing ten aircraft leaving trails.

This is exactly the point and why people fall for this chemtrail Stuff. You will only notice most flights when they do leave a trail and when the weather makes the trails last longer, you will notice even more.

An aircraft seven miles high is virtually invisible, it could also be 20, 30, 50 or more miles away laterally, so most of he time most flights pass by unnoticed. When persisting trails are left it does not mean new flights, only different weather

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by miniatus

 

meanwhile, back in the real world..

the military use of radar jamming techniques is very much a reality.

And they have ben doign it since WW2.

So could you tell us why you think that is related to either chemtrails OR contrails???

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by dollukka

 

when did they ever "just.... vanish away"???

edit on 25-9-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

harharhar, every contrail ever made is still visible then?.

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by miniatus

 

oh alright then..

you haven't found anything so it must be false.

meanwhile, back in the real world..

the military use of radar jamming techniques is very much a reality.

And the dropping of chaff happens in bundles, not big white lines across the skies. It's also for air to air missiles, so it's small bundles that appear to be huge on radar but aren't.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
Strange how on a conspiracy website, any thread that even mentions chemtrails brings out the naysayers, in force, and immediately. Seems everyone on this well known conspiracy site thinks chemtrails are nonsense.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Not saying I believe this stuff one way or another, since here in Mexico I have never seen the type of skies I see pictures of all the time. I was thinking of it yesterday as I watched two jets. I was lolling on the beach, enjoying the 98 percent humidity, which supposedly is what causes the long lasting contrails. Two jets left pronounced contrails. They dissipated after about ten minutes, just like normal.

You're right. And you're not alone in thinking this way. What's startling is that it's THE SAME people, who post the same thing, over and over again. It's almost like...*gasp* these people are payed to observe and pounce upon threads that mention certain subjects, like Chemtrails, so they can add their own opinion as fact.

I could name a few, but now it seems the ATS administration is in on this, because they ENCOURAGE debunking.

"Deny Ignorance", anyone? You're basically being called ignorant for questioning anything, on a conspiracy website of all places.

It should be blatantly obvious that this site aroused the interest of some concerned private organizations, and has subsequently been bought out. When even the moderation and administration work to subvert the public, to encourage and enforce misinformation / disinformation, you know something is going on.

This website is spin central.

Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by Char-Lee

There have been many pictures both of the planes and the trails but you will never accept any of them I am thinking.

www.darkgovernment.com...

Sigh...you really need to be more discerning about your sources
Sigh...you really need to be more discerning about your sources and learn how to validate claims yourself...just because that website says its a "chemtrail" planes doesn't mean you should automatically believe it...

that plane- and every other supposed spray plane has been thoroughly debunked- (scroll down for the actual plane in your article):

contrailscience.com...


...and while you are there- take at this article on "chemtrail" grids...any thoughts?:

contrailscience.com...

In all fairness, you just posted a "source" which is a website authored by Uncinus. So in effect, you're using one ATS members opinion as "evidence" that another's is somehow incorrect?

LOL

Speaking about "discerning sources" !

reply to post by yourignoranceisbliss


I don't know about the others, but SOMEONE owes me a ton of back pay damnit.

I'm so sorry for trying to show that not everything is some nefarious plot, especially when it's a topic that I know well. I'll remember from now on that we're only supposed to agree with everything that's posted that says there's a plot against us, and try to do better from now on.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

I've seen the same kind of grid pattern on several occasions. Some are more than others. This thread caught my eye because I haven't seen any unusual chemtrails for awhile until this morning as I was driving to work. What caught my attention immediately was a massive expanding chemtrail that crossed overhead into the horizon. There were other wide chemtrails, but I've never seen one as wide like this one. You can normally see, maybe the most, 5 planes flying overhead on any given day in different directions. But this morning, after seeing this huge chemtrail, I couldn't help but notice 10 planes flying parallel with chemtrails going in different directions.

My first reaction when I looked up through my front windshield was wtf is that! I'm sorry to say, I'm in my early 50's and I never observed plane contrails as wide as the kind I've seen in the past few years. A few of these planes that were flying overhead didn't have abnormal contrails, but others did.

For as much attention that these chemtrails are getting, you would think the media would set up some kind of investigation into this to prove it false. I don't mean someone sitting behind a desk and giving some kind of atmospheric condition that causes it, but actually flying in a plane and filming one of these wide chemtrails. Maybe even following the plane in for a landing to check out the plane that created the chemtrail on the ground.

Anybody know if Myth Busters ever experimented and tried to duplicate these wide chemtrails to bust this chemtrail conspiracy?

Somewhere along the way ATS has changed from a place to discuss the possible reasons for conspiracies and the reason many people think there is one on a subject...

To... a bash anyone who believes a conspiracy and debunk at all costs website.

Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss

Originally posted by CaptChaos
Strange how on a conspiracy website, any thread that even mentions chemtrails brings out the naysayers, in force, and immediately. Seems everyone on this well known conspiracy site thinks chemtrails are nonsense.

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Not saying I believe this stuff one way or another, since here in Mexico I have never seen the type of skies I see pictures of all the time. I was thinking of it yesterday as I watched two jets. I was lolling on the beach, enjoying the 98 percent humidity, which supposedly is what causes the long lasting contrails. Two jets left pronounced contrails. They dissipated after about ten minutes, just like normal.

You're right. And you're not alone in thinking this way. What's startling is that it's THE SAME people, who post the same thing, over and over again. It's almost like...*gasp* these people are payed to observe and pounce upon threads that mention certain subjects, like Chemtrails, so they can add their own opinion as fact.

I could name a few, but now it seems the ATS administration is in on this, because they ENCOURAGE debunking.

"Deny Ignorance", anyone? You're basically being called ignorant for questioning anything, on a conspiracy website of all places.

It should be blatantly obvious that this site aroused the interest of some concerned private organizations, and has subsequently been bought out. When even the moderation and administration work to subvert the public, to encourage and enforce misinformation / disinformation, you know something is going on.

This website is spin central.

I was just thinking and posted the same thought. I am thinking this is no longer a "conspiracy" website where you can discuss the outside mainstream without being bashed and pummeled from all sides. this website may be no longer the place to go for discussion of your thoughts on any controversial subject.

I have lived in one place nearly 20 years and my husband is a business owner, neither of us is particularly stupid and yet we can't get anyone to accept that we do NOT have large airplane traffic here. We have rarely seen in all these years any but a few offshore contrails, some small personal jets that hit the Crescent City airport and this last year for the first time we have seen military jets and choppers go over a few times.

The building of the grid pattern we saw was being done by two jets ...for a purpose...we have since seen abnormal trails from jets chis cross three or four times. I was hoping for discussion and I get throttled.

I am thinking I will move on, I guess this is what the owners are after, I have watched the change.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


To prove that chemtrails are really just contrails, I would think you can follow a "suspected" plane to its landing sight, and than inspect the plane to see if it did contain any kind of chemical spray. I've observed a large jet "spraying" a trail that was immediately expanding as it was climbing in altitude. So the trail could still be visible and traced.

reply to post by WeRpeons


That might prove it for that plane - but what about all the others?

The burden of proof is on people making the claim - not on those asking "where is your evidence"?

Trying to change the burden of proof is called argument from ignorance, and is a common tactic attempted by people who cannot actually back up their own claims....."well you can't show that it isn't true...."

Originally posted by HIWATT

Originally posted by Thorazine

Originally posted by Char-Lee

There have been many pictures both of the planes and the trails but you will never accept any of them I am thinking.

www.darkgovernment.com...

Sigh...you really need to be more discerning about your sources
Sigh...you really need to be more discerning about your sources and learn how to validate claims yourself...just because that website says its a "chemtrail" planes doesn't mean you should automatically believe it...

that plane- and every other supposed spray plane has been thoroughly debunked- (scroll down for the actual plane in your article):

contrailscience.com...


...and while you are there- take at this article on "chemtrail" grids...any thoughts?:

contrailscience.com...

In all fairness, you just posted a "source" which is a website authored by Uncinus. So in effect, you're using one ATS members opinion as "evidence" that another's is somehow incorrect?

LOL

Speaking about "discerning sources" !

Actually- that is not accurate- Contrail Science is just a handy reference site- all of the information presented there is fully verifiable, completely sourced with the origin of the information...its just a handy repository of facts.

That the plane in question was simply a refueling as evidenced by the links provided on CS is a fact not an opinion.

The planes sometimes leave persistent contrails and when planes cross flight paths it can look like a grid is a fact not an opinion.

If you can find any errors of fact on contrail science I suggest you point them out.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
[I was just thinking and posted the same thought. I am thinking this is no longer a "conspiracy" website where you can discuss the outside mainstream without being bashed and pummeled from all sides. this website may be no longer the place to go for discussion of your thoughts on any controversial subject.

I think you are wrong.

I think you can discuss yuor thoughts as much as you like without being lambasted much.

I think your problem is that you do not realise there is a difference between "your thoughts" or opinions and "facts".

For example, if you say "I think TPTB are perfectly capable of making chemtails and it would not surprise me if they were doing so in some way shape or form" - that is an opinion, nd I would not argue against it.
when you say" teh long white trails aocross the ky are actually a secret programme for spraying me with aluminium or preventing AGW (or somethgn else" then you are stating somethgni as fact, and I (and otehrs) are going to ask you what is the evidence for that "fact".

And you will get upset because you don't actually have any that hasn't been debunked.

reply to post by Char-Lee



Nobody bashed you...just pointed some errors of fact and logic that - if you had an open mind- might help you figure out what you see in the sky.

Instead- you simply closed down and would not consider any information contrary to your belief.

You claimed that there was "no" air traffic over Brookings, OR- that was shown to be false...

Let me ask you - in all honesty- are you aware and/or do you believe that "normal" planes can sometimes leave persistent spreading contrails??

is it possible that flight paths might cross?

reply to post by yourignoranceisbliss


Yeah brilliant!

And what do you propose? If we don't agree with a theory just shut up? What if some of us are as curious as others but haven't made our minds up? Would you rather people just put their hands over their ears when somebody questions a conspiracy theory? Or should we all just blindly follow some puke like Alex Jones off the edge of a cliff? Deny ignorance is right!

Originally posted by Char-Lee
[Somewhere along the way ATS has changed from a place to discuss the possible reasons for conspiracies and the reason many people think there is one on a subject...

as I posted above I think you are wrong. You can post what you think without bother - when you tell me that what you think is factual then I am going to ask what is the evidence to support hat conclusion.

To... a bash anyone who believes a conspiracy and debunk at all costs website.

I think a website where the evidence to support claims that conspiracies are factual is very important.

tehre are any number of conspiracy sites that do not allow the evidence to be critically examined - if you cannot stand your "facts" being checked for accuracy perhaps those are a better place for you.

Originally posted by CaptChaos


You're right. And you're not alone in thinking this way. What's startling is that it's THE SAME people, who post the same thing, over and over again.

People say the same things because the FACTS haven't changed....

The FACT that normal planes leave persistent, spreading contrails hasn't changed since planes have flown high enough

The FACT that every supposed "spray" plane turns out to be something other than a "spray" plane when place under fact based scrutiny hasn't changed,

The FACT that planes cross flight paths all the time and if they leave persistent contrails it will look like a grid HASN"T CHANGED....

SO, when people drag out the same tired, ill-informed speculation...the facts that refute them are the same...the facts do not go away...despite Believers denial.

Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss

You're not alone thinking this way. What's startling is that it's THE SAME people, who post the same thing, over and over again. It's almost like...*gasp* these people are payed to observe and pounce upon threads that mention certain subjects, like Chemtrails, so they can add their own opinion as fact.

You are not, then, startled when its SAME people pushing chemtrail and posting the same thing over and over. If the false claims are the same, then the rebuttals will be the same. Stands to reason.

I could name a few, but now it seems the ATS administration is in on this, because they ENCOURAGE debunking.

That's because ATS is about denying ignorance, much of what is written on here by believers is founded on ignorance so people who know their specialist subject well (aviation) try to correct the myths. That other members choose to embrace ignorance and react to the offer of insights like spoilt little kids is their problem. Reality is still reality. When the chemtrail believers cannot refute the information that is provided FOR THEIR BENEFIT some of them go quiet, but the really pathetic and immature ones start wailing about paid disinfo agents because they are too far up their own arses to realise that an informed member can be a useful ally.

"Deny Ignorance", anyone? You're basically being called ignorant for questioning anything, on a conspiracy website of all places.

Far from it, it is the UNQUESTIONING acceptance of any source that supports chemtrails that is the problem. Is conspiracy theory about uncovering hidden truth, or promoting unfounded fiction? Facts are still important.

This website is spin central.

So maybe its about time the spin stopped and thoughtful research WS employed instead.