Finally, a swedish Politician speaks on chemtrails in our skies!

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Air routes change through the year. There was almost definitely air travel over you, you just didn't realize it was there since it wasn't leaving contrails. What general region are you in, and I'll tell you about how much traffic is in the area.

On the CA/OR border at the coast in the boonies. We have a few coast gaurd and a few small planes that's it.

And in the American news today about the subject.

www.ksdk.com...

Real in the past
why is it called a fantasy in the present.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by dollukka

 

when did they ever "just.... vanish away"???

edit on 25-9-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

They have never just vanished away
look at this 1921 contrail.
A man made cloud just with a different tech from the past.

reply to post by Bodhi911


only problem i got with chemtrails is wouldnt the people in charge be breathing it in too ?

reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle


Naysayers aren't being myopic utopians who think everything is perfect, as chemtrail believers always like to portray. Its just that fixating on contrails is barking up the wrong tree.

I see it as two different arguments that unfortunately keep getting jammed together quite wrongly. For example the geo-engineering items you posted above are worthy of further study and what happens in this field in the future is of genuine concern to us all. We need to keep up to speed with these proposals and any experiments that result from them, it might well have unforeseen detrimental effects just as past experiments have. No arguments at all there.

However, as soon as anyone starts bleating about persistent visible trails in the sky in relation to geo engineering and saying "its not how contrails behave" and "they are spraying right now where i live" they have simply demonstrated ignorance and thrown away any credibility their argument might otherwise hold.

They can hardly expect to have their views about trails taken seriously when they openly show they don't actually know anything about contrails ,aviation or the atmosphere, which, unfortunately, is every single time they post for some.

I would like to think that many questioning souls have learned some genuine scientific truths, maybe from coming here, and as a result I am sure their search for nefarious activity has become more focussed as a result.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
And in the American news today about the subject.

www.ksdk.com...

Real in the past
why is it called a fantasy in the present.

If you read it, instead of just linking to it, you might understand. Hint: NOT high altitude, persistent contrails from commercial air traffic, so actually something different.

Why are you posting unrelated items as evidence, is it because you don't have anything genuinely tied to what people are seeing in the sky?

reply to post by Char-Lee


There's a lot of air travel that passes over you that you don't see in that area. There are only a few planes that you may see, but there's a lot that transits over you. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it's not going over.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

There's a lot of air travel that passes over you that you don't see in that area. There are only a few planes that you may see, but there's a lot that transits over you. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it's not going over.

So the air travel we never see suddenly comes to this small town and creates an artistic perfect squared grid AS we watch for hours and then the two military type jets fly off over the mountains...ok now I see.

reply to post by Char-Lee


No, as I said before, contrails are more prevalent now, because of the newer engines that are in use. They're much more fuel efficient, but they also create more contrails than before because of the way they work. A lot of areas that didn't see many contrails in the past are seeing more now.

As for the military flights, why are you surprised? There are bases all over the California and Oregon area, including Edwards AFB, which is not only home to the USAF flight test programs, but also Dryden Flight Research Center.

Keeping in mind that I am still skeptical. These trails, although we don't know the full effect of the aerosols used in them, don't seem to be harming anyone. After all, we share the same air, so why would they want to pollute it all with toxins. "Chemtrails" appear to be a great way to perform Solar Radiation Management (SRM). (Aim to reduce the amount of sunlight reaching the planet by reflecting more of it back to space, thereby reducing atmospheric warming.)

SRM proposals include putting sulfate or aluminum aerosols or engineered nano-particles into the stratosphere,

DO people really find it SO hard to believe that this could be happening. Maybe "trails" are part of this ongoing research and they are using techniques similar to those implemented by Geo-Engineering companies on ground level.

I am about to email this Calgary based company and ask them if they have heard of, or if their is preliminary trials of, their techniques but using smaller scale models aboard aircrafts.

Carbon Engineering

reply to post by TheSparrowSings


The major problems I have with this whole debate are the fact that every time someone sees something on a plane that they don't recognize (see the whole wingtip refueling pod on a French C-135 post) then it's a sprayer plane.

Add to that that the extent of "proof" of chemtrails almost always boils down to "Just look and you'll see the difference!", with a few obscure patents, and HR 2977 thrown in (which has been debunked to death).

There might very well be something going on, or in the plans, but it's certainly not using commercial planes to perform the mission, and there aren't enough military planes for all the chemtrail claims around the world.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by TheSparrowSings

 

There might very well be something going on, or in the plans, but it's certainly not using commercial planes to perform the mission, and there aren't enough military planes for all the chemtrail claims around the world.

Well there is a chance that some commercial traffic may have this technology in use already, but I agree, to the extent of the reporting around the world there wouldn't be enough as of yet to justify every "chem-trail". I cannot speak for others but the times when I have noticed "different" trails could easily be military. I live near a large base and typically these planes come from that direction. But thats just me, hence why I have no solid opinion on the matter yet.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by TheSparrowSings

 

The major problems I have with this whole debate are the fact that every time someone sees something on a plane that they don't recognize (see the whole wingtip refueling pod on a French C-135 post) then it's a sprayer plane.

Add to that that the extent of "proof" of chemtrails almost always boils down to "Just look and you'll see the difference!", with a few obscure patents, and HR 2977 thrown in (which has been debunked to death).

There might very well be something going on, or in the plans, but it's certainly not using commercial planes to perform the mission, and there aren't enough military planes for all the chemtrail claims around the world.

There is a TON of proof of spraying....example

In addition to the experimental weather modification programs listed by NOAA, there are both private and ongoing government sponsored atmospheric testing and heating programs underway in Alaska and across the United States. Alaska Senator Stevens recently received $50 million in funding for Alaska’s atmospheric heating program.

All of these unregulated, private, government, and public weather modification programs, may also have unintended synergistic effects. Senate Bill 517 does not address these issues but intends to implement more experimental weather modification programs without a national debate or public oversight.
Trimethyl Aluminum (TMA) and barium are just two of the toxic chemicals used in recent atmospheric heating and testing programs according to NASA. The Alaska H.A.A.R.P. atmospheric heating program may have the capability of changing the Jet Stream which could also change our weather.
www.globalresearch.ca...

reply to post by Char-Lee


If you actually look into the companies in question on the NOAA site, you will see that they deal with cloud seeding for their modification efforts. Cloud seeding is not the same as chemtrails are supposed to be.

As for the HAARP atmospheric heating program, all the information I found is that they are using microwave radiation to heat the atmosphere, which doesn't involve spraying at all.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

If you actually look into the companies in question on the NOAA site, you will see that they deal with cloud seeding for their modification efforts. Cloud seeding is not the same as chemtrails are supposed to be.

As for the HAARP atmospheric heating program, all the information I found is that they are using microwave radiation to heat the atmosphere, which doesn't involve spraying at all.

You said there is no proof things are being sprayed...there are a ton of diffident people and corps and gov spraying and there is a ton of proof, if you don't want to see it fine.

This picture is identical to what they did and we watched in our small neighboring town of Brookings OR where we never see aircraft but coast guard and whale watchers seasonally. The only difference is the grid was perfect with no other lines and went on as far as the eye could see in all directions.

Originally posted by Rudy2shoes
And in the American news today about the subject.

www.ksdk.com...

Real in the past
why is it called a fantasy in the present.

"While the Army admits it added a florescent substance to the zinc cadmium compound, details of whether it was radioactive remains secret. "
The main point being they were spraying their own people, the public and led about it and what the equipment was doing.

We have been test subjects over and over by corporations and government does anyone seem to care NO denial is ll i see no matter how bad the tests and experiments were and are!

Obama’s Science Adviser Says Chemtrails Will Save the Planet

Holdren sees geo-engineering as a perfectly viable way to cool the planet’s temperature. He fully supports the process of releasing particles of barium, magnesium, aluminum, nano-fibers, bacillus blood spores and other chemicals to reflect sunlight away from the Earth.

The National Institute of Health has found that geo-engineering is directly responsible for neurotoxins found in human blood, lungs; as well as causing a whole host of neurotoxic conditions such as multiple sclerosis.

I don't agree with all of this article, I believe the arctic ice is melting for instance, but this shows they have no problem with spraying the population.

occupycorporatism.com...

reply to post by Char-Lee


I've been looking into this since I joined ATS several years ago, and every bit of "proof" that I've seen posted has an explanation, or a different definition than people try to claim. Cloud seeding is not spraying, and is what almost every one of those companies does that you talked about on the NOAA site.

As for the Army experiments, in St Louis, they weren't sprayed from planes, the substance was sprayed from rooftops, and ground sources.

Originally posted by Char-Lee




You said there is no proof things are being sprayed...there are a ton of diffident people and corps and gov spraying and there is a ton of proof, if you don't want to see it fine.

This picture is identical to what they did and we watched in our small neighboring town of Brookings OR where we never see aircraft but coast guard and whale watchers seasonally.

Char-lee-


I suggest your review the definition of "proof". Seeing a persistent contrail or multiple contrails in the sky is not "proof" since we know that 'normal" contrail behave that way already...

As for no air traffic over Brookings, Or- You might want to consider the fact that the West coast is some of the most heavily used air space in the world...Where do you think all those flights from LA, SF, SD to Seattle, PTL, VC, AK etc...go?? Or all the flights from the rest of the country to Asia??

There are over 40,000 flights per day in the US- watch this animation of a days worth of air traffic- see any flights over Brookings?? :

www.youtube.com...

Now what if the air was conducive to persistent contrails...what would it look like?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

I've been looking into this since I joined ATS several years ago, and every bit of "proof" that I've seen posted has an explanation, or a different definition than people try to claim. Cloud seeding is not spraying, and is what almost every one of those companies does that you talked about on the NOAA site.

As for the Army experiments, in St Louis, they weren't sprayed from planes, the substance was sprayed from rooftops, and ground sources.

You seem to always miss the point. the point was they have no problem spraying us IN SECRET and lying about it!

Secondly although it is neither here not there...cloud seeding IS done in numerous ways..here is a cloud seeding plane. Just ONE of the types used. But this again is not the point, the spraying the did here was not seeding any clouds!
www.nawcinc.com...