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Vacuum to antimatter-rocket

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posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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The principle behind VARIES is as simple as it is theoretically cutting edge. It’s based on something from quantum mechanics called a “Schwinger pair production." According to quantum theory, particles in a vacuum don’t exactly exist. They’re only “sort of” there as an expression of probability. We don’t notice this on our scale because the probabilities balance themselves out. However, on a quantum scale, it’s a different story. One upshot of this is that it’s believed that if you tip the scales of probability by subjecting a vacuum to a powerful electric field, it will cause particles of matter (or antimatter) to spontaneously appear.

If this phenomenon pans out, VARIES would exploit it by way of an unmanned starship with huge solar panels that would collect the sun’s rays. These would, in turn, power banks of x-ray free electron lasers to charge the vacuum and create antimatter, which would then be collected and stored aboard as fuel for the journey.


www.gizmag.com...

Original Research/PDF file

Any thoughts?

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edit on 25-9-2012 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by Kashai

The principle behind VARIES is as simple as it is theoretically cutting edge. It’s based on something from quantum mechanics called a “Schwinger pair production." According to quantum theory, particles in a vacuum don’t exactly exist. They’re only “sort of” there as an expression of probability. We don’t notice this on our scale because the probabilities balance themselves out. However, on a quantum scale, it’s a different story. One upshot of this is that it’s believed that if you tip the scales of probability by subjecting a vacuum to a powerful electric field, it will cause particles of matter (or antimatter) to spontaneously appear.

If this phenomenon pans out, VARIES would exploit it by way of an unmanned starship with huge solar panels that would collect the sun’s rays. These would, in turn, power banks of x-ray free electron lasers to charge the vacuum and create antimatter, which would then be collected and stored aboard as fuel for the journey.


www.gizmag.com...

Original Research/PDF file

Any thoughts?


Sounds good in theory...anti matter is a different matter entirely. I think these things are all relative....vacuum wouldn't be a vacuum if you change the background density...i don't think its that spontaneous. It will work if they adjust the geometry of the vacuum to the correct shape and figure out how to induct the charge correctly...the pairing is critical...oh wait they said lasers...yang again;(
edit on 9/24/2012 by Drala because: Chuck Norris said so...



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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Wow. I guess you could call it a quantum transducer. Essentially, what this seems like to me, is a conversion of quantum vacuum potential into actual anti-matter. As I understand it, the quantum vacuum already spontaneously creates matter and anti-matter pairs. Perhaps the applied electric field acts to stimulate and enhance the energy of the vacuum fluctuations, and creates an environment where the virtual particles are able to manifest into real particles and anti-particles by using that energy. I'll to read more about "Schwinger Pair Production" I think...

edit: just wanted to add that what I'm trying to get at here is that any way you look at, this device is claiming to have over-unity capabilities. You wouldn't waste your energy creating an electric field to harvest anti-matter unless you thought that anti-matter could produce more energy then what you waste on creating the electric-field. So basically the aim is to harvest very powerful anti-matter directly from the quantum vacuum, and the only energy used in that process is the energy used to create the electric field. Can the quantum vacuum put out more then you put in? I believe it can.
edit on 24/9/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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That was a good read.
Checked out the actual paper and it makes sense.
the sail will have to be 45 km x 45 km assuming our current laser tech. That's pretty damn big, but I don't see why it can't be done. Plus, technology always gets better right?
The actual thrust comes from the Pions formed from the annihilation of the protons and antiprotons it seems. They propose using superconducing magnets for the nozzle and they mention that some of the pions go upstream of the intended thrust.
Seems radiation shielding will also be a must because
"Due to the short lifetime of the neutral pion created in the
matter-antimatter annihilation, it only moves 60 nanometers
before decaying into 200 MeV gamma rays"
Wouldn't want to be bombarded with those I think.

The math is tasty, but I don't have the drive right now to see where they got the equations so I'll just assume they work and take it with a grain of salt.

This is quantum physics at work, and I like it.
edit on 9/24/2012 by MeesterB because: clarification



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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Here is the PDF file for Schwinger Pair Production in Strong Electric Fields....

www.qgf.uni-jena.de...



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

edit: just wanted to add that what I'm trying to get at here is that any way you look at, this device is claiming to have over-unity capabilities.


It's no more over unity than an oil rig is. It takes some energy to harvest the fuel. The fuel provides more energy than it takes to harvest. Basically this applies for every single fuel source we use.



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


As far as I know an alternative would be to find a way to land a space craft on a Neutron star, so as to collect anti-matter.



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

edit: just wanted to add that what I'm trying to get at here is that any way you look at, this device is claiming to have over-unity capabilities.


It's no more over unity than an oil rig is. It takes some energy to harvest the fuel. The fuel provides more energy than it takes to harvest. Basically this applies for every single fuel source we use.
That would be true, except in this case we are taking energy directly from the quantum vacuum. It's energy that doesn't exist until we create it, oil is energy which already exists. That means the process is not following the law of conservation of energy, which says you cannot destroy or create energy, only convert it from one form to another. However in this case we are creating energy, because we are forcing virtual particles to manifest themselves. You could almost argue the energy used to create the electric field is being converted into matter and anti-matter... however, the energy we input to create the electric field and make that happen is no where near the amount of energy contained in that anti-matter. If it were equal then we wouldn't need to carry out the vacuum-to-anti-matter step, we would just use the solar energy directly.
edit on 25/9/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 12:36 AM
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Actually, there are an enormous amount of neutron stars in our galaxy, though the effect of approaching one would be equivalent to being near a detonating neutron bomb. Coupled with The Schwarzchild Warp Drive we can reach the nearest star in less then a year.

Any thoughts?



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 01:29 AM
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It's more like they are using energy from a star to power a laser that increases the probability of making matter/antimatter appear out of a vacuum and collide. Apparently this collision releases energetic particles that can interact with magnetic fields creating a force that can push the spacecraft.

That's how it works.
Hence the need for a huge sail to harvest energy from a star.

Edit: Not an optic laser but an electron laser.
edit on 9/25/2012 by MeesterB because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 01:43 AM
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A free-electron laser, or FEL, is a laser that shares the same optical properties as conventional lasers such as emitting a beam consisting of coherent electromagnetic radiation which can reach high power, but which uses some very different operating principles to form the beam. Unlike gas, liquid, or solid-state lasers such as diode lasers, in which electrons are excited in bound atomic or molecular states, FELs use a relativistic electron beam as the lasing medium which moves freely through a magnetic structure, hence the term free electron.[1] The free-electron laser has the widest frequency range of any laser type, and can be widely tunable,[2] currently ranging in wavelength from microwaves, through terahertz radiation and infrared, to the visible spectrum, to ultraviolet, to X-rays.[3]

Free-electron lasers were invented by John Madey in 1976 at Stanford University. The work emanates from research done by Hans Motz and his coworkers who built an undulator at Stanford in 1953 using the wiggler magnetic configuration which is at the heart of a free electron laser. Madey used a 24 MeV electron beam and 5 m long wiggler to amplify a signal. Soon afterward, other laboratories with accelerators started developing such lasers.


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

edit: just wanted to add that what I'm trying to get at here is that any way you look at, this device is claiming to have over-unity capabilities.


It's no more over unity than an oil rig is. It takes some energy to harvest the fuel. The fuel provides more energy than it takes to harvest. Basically this applies for every single fuel source we use.
That would be true, except in this case we are taking energy directly from the quantum vacuum. It's energy that doesn't exist until we create it, oil is energy which already exists. That means the process is not following the law of conservation of energy, which says you cannot destroy or create energy, only convert it from one form to another. However in this case we are creating energy, because we are forcing virtual particles to manifest themselves. You could almost argue the energy used to create the electric field is being converted into matter and anti-matter... however, the energy we input to create the electric field and make that happen is no where near the amount of energy contained in that anti-matter. If it were equal then we wouldn't need that carry out the vacuum-to-anti-matter step, we would just use the solar energy directly.
edit on 25/9/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)


Except they do exist, only just sort of. They exist in a different form, and this allows them to manifest. Just like the oil is "there" but unusable until you bring it up and then modify it.

This is very different, but it is not creating something from nothing, the particles exist only in a form that can't be used.



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Actually the math is correct and would ask that you offer in the same language as to why it is not???



edit on 25-9-2012 by Kashai because: Modified content



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by Kashai
 


Um, what math?

From the actual article.

They’re only “sort of” there as an expression of probability. We don’t notice this on our scale because the probabilities balance themselves out


So can you elaborate on what math?



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Clearly you have not reviewed this PDF file...others have done so....

richardobousyconsulting.com...


edit on 25-9-2012 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:22 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


No, the particles do not really exist. Virtual particles are, in essence, vacuum fluctuations. The Uncertainty Principle results in space-time turbulence at the quantum scale. This activity causes conditions which result in virtual particle pairs (a particle and it's anti-particle) to appear for extremely brief periods of time before annihilating each other, all this happens in such a way that the law of conservation of energy is upheld. They only exist for the blink of an eye, and during that period it's debatable to say they are real. At all other times they do not exist in any form. However, it is possible to make those virtual particles stay as real particles if you can stop them from annihilating each other by way of powerful lasers or via a powerful electric field as proposed in this paper. But the real question is, can you get more energy out than what it takes to make those virtual particles become real. If you can't do that there's not even a point to doing it, it's a redundant process.
edit on 25/9/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Suggesting the particles do not exist is incorrect, they do exist and the problem to continue there existence is a temporal one. One way of looking at it is that they escape our concept of reality, which per say has nothing to do with reality as a whole.



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Suggesting the particles do not exist is incorrect, they do exist and the problem to continue there existence is a temporal one. One way of looking at it is that they escape our concept of reality, which per say has nothing to do with reality as a whole.


See, me and you are on the same page I think, mostly.



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 




implied in the construct is that we can capture virtual particles before they exit reality as we understand it.

Any thoughts?



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Clearly you have not reviewed this PDF file...others have done so....

richardobousyconsulting.com...

I finished reading it a little while ago. But I think maybe what I've been missing is the fact that anti-matter can be converted into usable energy at a much more efficient level than other types of fuels. I said that it would be pointless to waste energy creating an electric field unless you could get more energy out of the process, however that's not quite true. When anti-matter collides with matter the amount of fuel converted into usable energy is much more efficient than chemical reactions and nuclear reactions and any other type of reactions. So even if you get the same or less energy out of the vacuum-to-anti-matter process, you have the ability to "burn" that fuel in a much more efficient manner, which I think is really the whole point of the process. So it's sort of like you are getting more energy out than what you put in, but in reality you're just getting a more efficient type of energy out. I think that's what I was really missing about this. But I still think it's possible to get more out of the vacuum than what you put in, if you know how.
edit on 25/9/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)





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