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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by WarminIndy
I think that it is extremely helpful to cite the translation being used, so that readers know which one it is -- I always use the NIV, even though some of my friends here would argue that it is a bad translation, and as a Catholic, I should be using one of theirs, but I've been hanging out with the NIV for a long, long time, and it's tough to give up a longtime friend, even the printed sort.
Under fair use, I don't believe that it is necessary to provide a link back to a web site if the actual text is a book, whether you have it or not, so long as the text is cited (so if one were to, say, copy text from a web site that had previously copied it from a book, you would cite the book, not the web site) -- though I'm not a lawyer, so that may be incorrect. If the book was not commonly available (like a 18th century textbook,) I'd say it better to link to the website, noting that said site is quoting from a book.
Originally posted by Theophorus
reply to post by Akragon
Where do you think Paul got his information from ? Paul was a Jew and worshiped the God of the OT. He knew no other. as usual you are mixing apples with oranges. Dude, take a theology class or two or ten. Your smarter than this. one word, BORING!
When He said "It is written" or "So that Scripture might be fulfilled", it was the Torah that Jesus was talking about.
I think what may have happened to you is this, you find Paul seems to be contrary to Jesus and cannot reconcile that. But you have to understand that Paul himself often admitted much of what he said was his own opinion. So if you read something that is opinion, you can disagree with his opinion. You just have to rely on what Jesus said, primarily. You don't have to agree with Paul's opinion or Peter's opinion, for that matter. But you should know what their opinions were.
@Akragon, yes, you have the right to cite whatever verses you wish, but it would be more proper to cite the context also. What you are proposing is "cherry-picking" that leads to literary dishonesty.
Who was the verse written to, where were those people at, and what were they doing when the verse was given? Those are things you need to address before you post a verse and say it is true, because it is nothing more than your opinion, and why is your opinion greater than the writers' opinion?
No, my question was more along the lines of "if you disagree with someone, why cite them in a disagreement with something else?" It seems like you're either showing that he's not all that wrong, or you're undermining the claim.
Yes, my beliefs did change and they changed for the better as it brought me closer and now I can honestly say that I have a personal relationship with Him.
Originally posted by Akragon
It seems that i've told you this before.... Reading the OP usually helps clear up things like this...
my quote
But... keeping that in mind, lets move on to Paul... His view on love is one of the few things i do like about his writing...
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by Akragon
It seems that i've told you this before.... Reading the OP usually helps clear up things like this...
my quote
But... keeping that in mind, lets move on to Paul... His view on love is one of the few things i do like about his writing...
... and as I have told you before, taking things out of context or cherry picking texts is not the proper way to approach scripture. It's not as if Paul had a bunch of theology piled up over here, and then one whacky idea about love set off to the side -- it's all one piece, and if you can't see how he gets his "love is slow to anger" stuff, that's your deficiency, not his.
If you don't agree with it, fine, but you can't keep taking the 5/95 approach, using 5% of the text to condemn the whole thing. If you don't view it as a whole, or at the least take the majority of it, your analysis is flawed -- how seriously would a scientist be taken if they dismissed 95% of observed data because it disagreed with them, and simply reported on the 5% that did?
Originally posted by Akragon
And by the way im not taking this 95% approach as you claim... The 100% is the gospels, the rest isn't even included in the same count. Aside from the words of Jesus, the rest of the writers of the bible are nothing more then side notes, which i can and will dismiss if i feel the need to do so.
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by Akragon
And by the way im not taking this 95% approach as you claim... The 100% is the gospels, the rest isn't even included in the same count. Aside from the words of Jesus, the rest of the writers of the bible are nothing more then side notes, which i can and will dismiss if i feel the need to do so.
You agree 100% with the Gospels?
And yes, you're taking a 5/95 approach with the Old Testament, with all the "the God of the Old Testament is evil" stuff, and you're also taking a 5/95 approach with Paul, saying "I'll cite his views on love to support my position, while saying that the rest of it is wrong, because it doesn't support my position."
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by MamaJ
Yes, my beliefs did change and they changed for the better as it brought me closer and now I can honestly say that I have a personal relationship with Him.
As i suspected...
So as i've said, his time with you was in fact a blessing that brought you closer to God... Without which you likely would not have the same beliefs as you do now...
Everything has a purpose... Unfortunatly death has a stigma in our world, it is not looked upon in a good light, but i do not see death as a bad thing... more of a release, even a return to what our spirit knows as normal...
Perhaps he was called home because he was needed elsewhere
Much love hun
Some days I feel guilty for not just trusting in God more, especially through the illness. I have a lot of regrets, but I can honestly say I have learned from them and will never make them again.
Originally posted by Akragon
I agree with the words of Jesus within the Gospels... Not always the writers of them...
So back to this love issue... perhaps you might answer my question? That being, define it and show how it applies to killing innocent people...
Okay, not 100% of the Gospel, but you agree with 100% of the things that Jesus says in them?
I am not a fundamentalist, so I lay no claim to knowing all the facts associated with events portrayed in the Hebrew Bible.
I do, however, think it supremely arrogant to believe that one can pass moral judgement on the acts of God.
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
Okay, not 100% of the Gospel, but you agree with 100% of the things that Jesus says in them?
Isn't that what i said?
Haven't found any serious issues with them as of yet...
I am not a fundamentalist, so I lay no claim to knowing all the facts associated with events portrayed in the Hebrew Bible.
So you need a label to understand how this so called God can be justified... Fair enough
I do, however, think it supremely arrogant to believe that one can pass moral judgement on the acts of God.
feel free...
I find it extremely nieve to take the entire bible as "the word of God"... because it says its the word of God...
to each their own i suppose
edit on 25-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
I guess you must be one of those "God loves us no matter what kind of person we are or what we do" kind of people.
I have met people like you before. They push the "love" verses so much they actually end up worse.
What makes you dislike God for saying there are punishments for what you do? Is it that fear of punishment that turns you away?
If so, why? Let me ask this, since there is only grace now within your theology, where does that grace come from? Is that grace extended to wife-beating child molesters? So God loves them to, why then punish them, according to your theology?
If you say "love" is applied, then is it across the entire spectrum of human behavior, or only parts? If it for only parts, then who dictates which parts?
What kind of "love" are we applying? Are we to express erotic love only?
If you are my neighbor and I harm you, would you not expect me to be accountable for that?
To what degree are we to love?
Can you love the child molesters because your theology is framed around grace? How does that help the child victim?
You seem to want a God that says nothing to you about what you do, yet you don't seem to want the accountability for actions.
But what about society as a whole? Should we toss out every law because punishment is contained within the law? Is your "love" going to save society? Are victims of violent crimes to be punished at all?
In those laws by God you have to understand they were placed there for your rights and protection.
So you don't want the law, good, then don't complain if someone harms you. Eat the pork, I don't care if you do, that is what you have the right to do.
Can you commit adultery knowing you are taking something that does not belong to you? Does that harmed spouse have any rights under the "grace" and "love" through your theology?
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
Okay, not 100% of the Gospel, but you agree with 100% of the things that Jesus says in them?
Isn't that what i said?
Haven't found any serious issues with them as of yet...
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” (John 2:13-16 NIV)
Why does Jesus refer to the "evil God of the Old Testament" as his Father, and defend the sanctity of the building where said evil God was supposed to dwell in?
Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by WarminIndy