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More than 1,000 pastors plan to challenge IRS by endorsing presidential candidate

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posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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Well it looks like we may be seeing a windfall for the revenue side of the federal budget if these pastors follow through with their plan and I hope they do. I'm hoping that they permanently lose their tax exempt status over this one.

According to this article, which lists Fox News as their source, 1000 pastors plan to instruct their flock on which candidates to support in the upcoming election. They plan on filming their instructions and sending the film to the IRS in defiance of constitutional statutes prohibiting such political activity in hopes of instigating and winning an IRS legal challenge and reversing the statutes.

www.rawstory.com...


More than 1,000 pastors plan to openly defy the IRS by telling their congregation on October 7 to vote for a particular presidential candidate, according to Fox News.

The annual event, dubbed “Pulpit Freedom Sunday,” has been organized by the conservative Christian group Alliance Defending Freedom. The pastors participating in the event plan to preach about the election, endorse a candidate, and send video of their sermon to the IRS.


According to the article, despite the fact that the Johnson Amendment prohibits tax-exempt organizations from intervening in political campaigns, to date the IRS has been reluctant to remove their tax-exempt status for doing so.


“The IRS will send out notices from time to time and say you crossed the line,” Jim Garlow, a senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, told FoxNews.com. “But when it’s time to go to court, they close the case.”


IMO, it's time for the IRS to make a stand, enforce the law and remove the tax-exempt status of churches that willfully violate the Johnson Amendment. Not all churches, just those who insist on preaching politics from their pulpits. I have at least three ordained ministers in my family, none of whom would ever dream of injecting politics into their sermons and they too, are appalled by the proposed actions of these neo-conservative preachers. As are others;


Americans United for Church and State has pushed back against the event, sending letters to 60,000 houses of worship that urge them to obey federal tax law.

“People don’t join churches because they want to be told how to vote,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “Our letter reminds religious leaders about what the law requires, why it makes sense and how it could affect them.”

“Most clergy of all faiths know it’s inappropriate to use their pulpits to stump for political candidates,” he added. “But there are very vocal misguided religious and political forces that constantly prod religious leaders to violate federal tax law. We urge clergy to just say no.”


Actually, I think these neo-con pastors are attempting to lay the groundwork for the next big "we are people too" lawsuit/decision called "Neo-Con Churches United." One where they can openly admit that their churches are really political organizations disguised as houses of worship and still retain their tax-exempt status.

Welcome to the first step in the process of converting neo-con churches into religious super PACS, something this country needs about as much as a whole in the head. Actually we used to have something that very much resembled just what they're attempting to legalize now, back then it was called the Ku Klux Klan.







edit on 24-9-2012 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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Yeah forget all the tax evaders in our own House, Senate and nearly every major corporation and go after the churches and pastors!

Hell why not. The entire world is comming against anyone who has any kind of faith, regardless which faith you choose.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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I live deep in the heart of the bible belt and I can tell you this is nothing new. people always look to their pastors to be told who to vote for. This is how the church and state operate and what the problem is is that soon all the churches who were promised to be given all the gov contracts for hand outs to the poor and gaining tax exempt status, are going to be cut off the roles. The money has been spent and it is going to cause a very big problem when they start getting audited themselves. Churches around these parts like I say have always told their parishioners how to vote.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by eazyriderl_l
 


Sorry, I have to post completely off topic here....

Your avatar picture has me still laughing!! Aint that the mother effin truth??!!!!

Fantastic......

Sorry OP....



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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How about we all defy the IRS by quitting our jobs. The only legal way to get out of paying the IRS. Anyone have a better idea?

And I agree with above poster who says this is business as usual, churches always tell their flock how to vote, that is how bush won right? Thats why their called a flock.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by antar
I live deep in the heart of the bible belt and I can tell you this is nothing new. people always look to their pastors to be told who to vote for. This is how the church and state operate and what the problem is is that soon all the churches who were promised to be given all the gov contracts for hand outs to the poor and gaining tax exempt status, are going to be cut off the roles. The money has been spent and it is going to cause a very big problem when they start getting audited themselves. Churches around these parts like I say have always told their parishioners how to vote.


Not all churches do this. As a matter of fact, most don't. But when it comes to neo-conservative churches, you're absolutely right, "it is business as usual."

The problem is that to date, the IRS has been reluctant to prosecute and has chosen instead to issue warnings. The fact that these 1000 pastors have chosen to openly defy those warnings is a direct indication that it's time to invoke the law and remove their tax-exempt status.

Furthermore, anyone who relies on their pastor to instruct them how to vote is an idiot, plain and simple.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by filosophia
How about we all defy the IRS by quitting our jobs. The only legal way to get out of paying the IRS. Anyone have a better idea?


That's not the only way, just ask Mitt Romney. You could always hide your money in offshore accounts like he does.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by filosophia
How about we all defy the IRS by quitting our jobs. The only legal way to get out of paying the IRS. Anyone have a better idea?


That's not the only way, just ask Mitt Romney. You could always hide your money in offshore accounts like he does.


That only works if you are rich and have offshore income. With normal jobs they take taxes out before you even get your paycheck. Only way around that is to not work for something that will be stolen before you get it.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by filosophia
With normal jobs they take taxes out before you even get your paycheck. Only way around that is to not work for something that will be stolen before you get it.


It's not being "stolen" before you get it.

How did you get to work? Did you drive on roads and highways built with tax dollars? While you're at work, are your kids going to a school built with tax dollars? Are they being taught by teachers paid with tax dollars? Will the fire dept., (paid for with tax dollars) extinguish your house if it catches fire while you're at work? Will the police dept., (paid for with tax dollars) answer your call for help in an emergency? Will the U.S. military, (paid for with tax dollars) defend you if you're attacked? etc.....

Is any part of the bill for these services part of your personal responsibility? Or, are you one of those free-loaders you so vehemently oppose, who constantly utilizes these and other tax payer funded services while screaming about how you're being robbed before you get it?

Reminds me of the T.P. mentality in the House of Representatives who refused to increase the national debt. limit resulting in a credit downgrade for the U.S.. They want their stuff, they just don't want to pay for it.
edit on 24-9-2012 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


Taxes pay for all that stuff yes. Income tax does not and it is taken prior to you getting your "share" so saying his money is not stolen is just playing with semantics.

And yes the fire department will put out your house... and then bill you or let it burn because you didnt pay an annual fee www.msnbc.msn.com...

The police will show up... then shoot you or your dog for calling them
abcnews.go.com...
gothamist.com...
www.facebook.com...

Yea the military is doing a bang-up job world-wide


I guess i could keep going with this but I will end with this:
There is a payroll tax (tax to have an employee)
There is an income tax (tax to become an employee)
There is corporate profit tax (tax on what the fictitious business name *earns)

Three separate taxes on nothing tangible above and beyond the rest of the taxes we pay.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
Taxes pay for all that stuff yes. Income tax does not and it is taken prior to you getting your "share" so saying his money is not stolen is just playing with semantics.

And yes the fire department will put out your house... and then bill you or let it burn because you didnt pay an annual fee www.msnbc.msn.com...


The fire dept. that lets your house burn down is a perfect example of what happens when you let services, that should be public, become privatized. This happened in a community where they did exactly that!


Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
The police will show up... then shoot you or your dog for calling them
abcnews.go.com...
gothamist.com...
www.facebook.com...


Sometimes mistakes are made, sometimes the dog needs to be shot, but to make these bad examples out as if they were the norm is disingenuous to say the least.


Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
Yea the military is doing a bang-up job world-wide


IMO, the men & women of the military have done everything that has been ask of them and for the most part, quite honorably too. We start having problems when those who are responsible for doing the "asking," begin lying this nation into wars and ordering our military to violate the Geneva Conventions.


Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
I guess i could keep going with this but I will end with this:
There is a payroll tax (tax to have an employee)
There is an income tax (tax to become an employee)
There is corporate profit tax (tax on what the fictitious business name *earns)

Three separate taxes on nothing tangible above and beyond the rest of the taxes we pay.


Actually, all these taxes are based on tangible assets, namely "cash." I'm not saying that we couldn't use to reform our tax code, as a matter of fact I'm proposing that we start by taxing churches that are really political soapboxes in disguise.

edit on 24-9-2012 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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Eazyrider said it better myself, basically all those tax things like the fire department are nice, but they come from local taxes like property taxes, not income taxes. and even if you send your children to private schools or homeschool you STILL have to pay school tax which is unproportionately higher than all the necessary services like trash and fire. As for highways, doesn't gas tax pay for those? what does income tax even pay for?



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do this. Mit Romney is apparently tax exempt and he is allowed to tell everyone who to vote for.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 12:36 PM
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I think if the government tells people how to practice their faith then the Churchs have the right to tell its people how to vote. The government over stepped its bounds first by telling Church owned hospitals to do abortions which go directly against the faith of the Church. Why cant they fight back and do the same?



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
Yeah forget all the tax evaders in our own House, Senate and nearly every major corporation and go after the churches and pastors!

Hell why not. The entire world is comming against anyone who has any kind of faith, regardless which faith you choose.


This is entirely true. Regardless of the faith that we say we are we are being attacked by the non believers. Every time someone sticks to their faith then they are immediately put down now a days. If you dont go along with the "mainstream" ideas then you are pushed out. Its really getting old.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


I just had a quite an extensive dialog with my father in law about this and first I will thank you for your time, attention, and cordiality.

I can concede you might be right saying some of my links are not the norm, I will also state I believe it is at least an alarming "trend".



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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I also believe there is a difference in political speech and political endorsement.

Speaking on the government, its policies and persons is free, non-taxable and protected speech.

Endorsing or promoting one candidate or platform in order to influence individual opinions should be protected and taxed.

Holding an organization financially responsible for the actions of individuals is what I think this will come down to, and I am not entirely sure how I feel about that.

Thanks again for the correspondence, snf.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Awesome I hope Sharpton and Jackson loose their tax status for their endorsement of the current Potus.

Second agrees.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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'Pay unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and pay unto God what belongs to the Kingdom of Heaven', so said our wise Messiah.

Why are those minority 1000 church leaders so free to pay to their appointed ones in the republic instead of focusing upon the Kingdom of Heaven?

Have they learnt nothing of the evils done in the name of the church from roman times to the 19th Century?

Karl Marx was no true athiest. He became one and taught others when the church leaders licked the boots of the rulers, instead of tending to mankind, obeying whatever the elites say and use Christianity as a collar chain to enslave the serfs.

There is a good reason to separate the church from the state, simply because all mortals are flawed,including you and me. Worse are those in positions of influence and yet behave hypocritically behind closet doors, misusing religion for one's advancement and earthly gains.

The secular takes care of all ethnic groups human. The Church takes care of its own congregation. In order for the nation to function effectively, it either goes into theocratic dictatorship, or abide by the sacrifices of the founding fathers for an inclusive society based upon the common grounds of aspirations of all mankind under secularism, and which had worked for more than 2 successive centuries.

Freedom of religion is respected, and for ALL religions. Any religious leader who is not happy, is most free to conduct dialogue in a democratic society, to share, discuss and find common grounds to co-exist, instead of using subversive attempts to sway public opinions for their own ends.

Darth Vader Cheny had claimed that in order to rule, you have to pull one's by the balls, and their hearts and minds will follow for Afghanistan and Iraq. Did it worked out? It was a provened failure. May that minority church leaders be aware and return to the right path.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 




Well it looks like we may be seeing a windfall for the revenue side of the federal budget if these pastors follow through with their plan and I hope they do. I'm hoping that they permanently lose their tax exempt status over this one.


Oh, I do hope you are right. Time for these, ahem, "churches" to be put in their places. Not a one of them preaches anything resembling what Jesus is claimed to have preached, but are rather alternate universes that preach hate of anyone different than those in their cult, hypocrisy and judgmentalism.





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