More than 1,000 pastors plan to challenge IRS by endorsing presidential candidate, page 1


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Topic started on 24-9-2012 @ 09:45 AM by Flatfish
Well it looks like we may be seeing a windfall for the revenue side of the federal budget if these pastors follow through with their plan and I hope they do. I'm hoping that they permanently lose their tax exempt status over this one.

According to this article, which lists Fox News as their source, 1000 pastors plan to instruct their flock on which candidates to support in the upcoming election. They plan on filming their instructions and sending the film to the IRS in defiance of constitutional statutes prohibiting such political activity in hopes of instigating and winning an IRS legal challenge and reversing the statutes.

www.rawstory.com...

More than 1,000 pastors plan to openly defy the IRS by telling their congregation on October 7 to vote for a particular presidential candidate, according to Fox News.

The annual event, dubbed “Pulpit Freedom Sunday,” has been organized by the conservative Christian group Alliance Defending Freedom. The pastors participating in the event plan to preach about the election, endorse a candidate, and send video of their sermon to the IRS.


According to the article, despite the fact that the Johnson Amendment prohibits tax-exempt organizations from intervening in political campaigns, to date the IRS has been reluctant to remove their tax-exempt status for doing so.

“The IRS will send out notices from time to time and say you crossed the line,” Jim Garlow, a senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, told FoxNews.com. “But when it’s time to go to court, they close the case.”


IMO, it's time for the IRS to make a stand, enforce the law and remove the tax-exempt status of churches that willfully violate the Johnson Amendment. Not all churches, just those who insist on preaching politics from their pulpits. I have at least three ordained ministers in my family, none of whom would ever dream of injecting politics into their sermons and they too, are appalled by the proposed actions of these neo-conservative preachers. As are others;

Americans United for Church and State has pushed back against the event, sending letters to 60,000 houses of worship that urge them to obey federal tax law.

“People don’t join churches because they want to be told how to vote,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “Our letter reminds religious leaders about what the law requires, why it makes sense and how it could affect them.”

“Most clergy of all faiths know it’s inappropriate to use their pulpits to stump for political candidates,” he added. “But there are very vocal misguided religious and political forces that constantly prod religious leaders to violate federal tax law. We urge clergy to just say no.”


Actually, I think these neo-con pastors are attempting to lay the groundwork for the next big "we are people too" lawsuit/decision called "Neo-Con Churches United." One where they can openly admit that their churches are really political organizations disguised as houses of worship and still retain their tax-exempt status.

Welcome to the first step in the process of converting neo-con churches into religious super PACS, something this country needs about as much as a whole in the head. Actually we used to have something that very much resembled just what they're attempting to legalize now, back then it was called the Ku Klux Klan.







edit on 24-9-2012 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 10:04 AM by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by eazyriderl_l


Sorry, I have to post completely off topic here....

Your avatar picture has me still laughing!! Aint that the mother effin truth??!!!!

Fantastic......

Sorry OP....


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 11:20 AM by eazyriderl_l
reply to post by Flatfish


Taxes pay for all that stuff yes. Income tax does not and it is taken prior to you getting your "share" so saying his money is not stolen is just playing with semantics.

And yes the fire department will put out your house... and then bill you or let it burn because you didnt pay an annual fee www.msnbc.msn.com...

The police will show up... then shoot you or your dog for calling them
abcnews.go.com...
gothamist.com...
www.facebook.com...

Yea the military is doing a bang-up job world-wide


I guess i could keep going with this but I will end with this:
There is a payroll tax (tax to have an employee)
There is an income tax (tax to become an employee)
There is corporate profit tax (tax on what the fictitious business name *earns)

Three separate taxes on nothing tangible above and beyond the rest of the taxes we pay.


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 11:40 AM by Flatfish
Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
Taxes pay for all that stuff yes. Income tax does not and it is taken prior to you getting your "share" so saying his money is not stolen is just playing with semantics.

And yes the fire department will put out your house... and then bill you or let it burn because you didnt pay an annual fee www.msnbc.msn.com...


The fire dept. that lets your house burn down is a perfect example of what happens when you let services, that should be public, become privatized. This happened in a community where they did exactly that!

Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
The police will show up... then shoot you or your dog for calling them
abcnews.go.com...
gothamist.com...
www.facebook.com...


Sometimes mistakes are made, sometimes the dog needs to be shot, but to make these bad examples out as if they were the norm is disingenuous to say the least.

Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
Yea the military is doing a bang-up job world-wide


IMO, the men & women of the military have done everything that has been ask of them and for the most part, quite honorably too. We start having problems when those who are responsible for doing the "asking," begin lying this nation into wars and ordering our military to violate the Geneva Conventions.

Originally posted by eazyriderl_l
I guess i could keep going with this but I will end with this:
There is a payroll tax (tax to have an employee)
There is an income tax (tax to become an employee)
There is corporate profit tax (tax on what the fictitious business name *earns)

Three separate taxes on nothing tangible above and beyond the rest of the taxes we pay.


Actually, all these taxes are based on tangible assets, namely "cash." I'm not saying that we couldn't use to reform our tax code, as a matter of fact I'm proposing that we start by taxing churches that are really political soapboxes in disguise.

edit on 24-9-2012 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 02:10 PM by eazyriderl_l
reply to post by Flatfish


I just had a quite an extensive dialog with my father in law about this and first I will thank you for your time, attention, and cordiality.

I can concede you might be right saying some of my links are not the norm, I will also state I believe it is at least an alarming "trend". <--- regarding the police

The fire department becoming private is a result of mismanaging funds by our public officials and no amount of taxes will fix mismanagement.

Personal Disclosure. I don't like taxes of any kind and I believe most of them are obscene at best. I also understand the need and some of the use of taxes so I would never not pay them because of the fact that my family does use the system and should pay to help support that system, even if it is broken..

I also think income tax should be and is a crime.

I believe this is just another attempt to control ones speech or make them pay.


edit on 24-9-2012 by eazyriderl_l because: grammer police



reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 02:28 PM by SeekerofTruth101
'Pay unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and pay unto God what belongs to the Kingdom of Heaven', so said our wise Messiah.

Why are those minority 1000 church leaders so free to pay to their appointed ones in the republic instead of focusing upon the Kingdom of Heaven?

Have they learnt nothing of the evils done in the name of the church from roman times to the 19th Century?

Karl Marx was no true athiest. He became one and taught others when the church leaders licked the boots of the rulers, instead of tending to mankind, obeying whatever the elites say and use Christianity as a collar chain to enslave the serfs.

There is a good reason to separate the church from the state, simply because all mortals are flawed,including you and me. Worse are those in positions of influence and yet behave hypocritically behind closet doors, misusing religion for one's advancement and earthly gains.

The secular takes care of all ethnic groups human. The Church takes care of its own congregation. In order for the nation to function effectively, it either goes into theocratic dictatorship, or abide by the sacrifices of the founding fathers for an inclusive society based upon the common grounds of aspirations of all mankind under secularism, and which had worked for more than 2 successive centuries.

Freedom of religion is respected, and for ALL religions. Any religious leader who is not happy, is most free to conduct dialogue in a democratic society, to share, discuss and find common grounds to co-exist, instead of using subversive attempts to sway public opinions for their own ends.

Darth Vader Cheny had claimed that in order to rule, you have to pull one's by the balls, and their hearts and minds will follow for Afghanistan and Iraq. Did it worked out? It was a provened failure. May that minority church leaders be aware and return to the right path.


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 02:35 PM by pajoly
reply to post by Flatfish



Well it looks like we may be seeing a windfall for the revenue side of the federal budget if these pastors follow through with their plan and I hope they do. I'm hoping that they permanently lose their tax exempt status over this one.


Oh, I do hope you are right. Time for these, ahem, "churches" to be put in their places. Not a one of them preaches anything resembling what Jesus is claimed to have preached, but are rather alternate universes that preach hate of anyone different than those in their cult, hypocrisy and judgmentalism.
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