Perpetual Motion is not a Myth.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


It's a clever guess at trying to prove the Finsrud's machine is a hoax, but that's a pretty common circuit there, used in things like tattoo machines and door buzzers.

The guy has been letting people go check out his machine since he started it back in 1996, if it hasn't been proven a hoax by now then maybe there's something to it.

reply to post by boncho

The earth is a bad example because of all the friction from the moon, the tides, etc. But if there was a planet spinning in a remote location with no moons, and let's say maybe one or two hydrogen atoms per cubic meter in the surrounding vacuum to slow it down, technically it would slow down but it might be difficult to measure the rate of slowdown. So if an effect becomes so small that it is difficult or impossible to measure, I take off my physics hat and put on my engineering hat and call it close enough. For example, using an engineering hat we call it the "vacuum" of space, but the 1 or 2 hydrogen atoms per cubic meter in intergalactic space isn't really an absence of all matter, so that's an approximation too, in a sense.

But if your point is that with the physics hat on, even the 1 or 2 hydrogen atoms per cubic meter create friction which will slow it down, yes, technically that's true, and as you said you knew I'd agree with that.

Good to see you too Boncho!

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Very good point. For very much same reasons, the Moon is becoming more distant from Earth, by about an inch a year, if memory serves me right.

Good to see you too buddhasystem!

I've been trying to figure out if mankind really went overboard with tidal energy, if that could conceivably have an effect on the Earth's rotation, such as slowing it down more rapidly than it's already slowing down due to friction. I suppose if we increased the friction we might slow it down, but I'm not sure if the tidal energy systems do that or only use the tidal energy that's already there. It's not going to matter in my lifetime but I'm curious about the future.

Originally posted by jaden_x
The guy has been letting people go check out his machine since he started it back in 1996, if it hasn't been proven a hoax by now then maybe there's something to it.

Is he letting anyone disassemble the machine to see where he's hiding the batteries (like in that big cylindrical area at the bottom center which would be a great place to hide batteries)? Somehow I doubt that.

reply to post by boncho


It has many meanings, one of the is "long lasting". Much like the phrade "perpetual war" which obviously doesn't mean a war that lasts for ever as nothing lasts forever. Or a perpetual stream of people visited the store, where it is meant to mean a constant unending continuation, which once again obviously doesn't mean endless, forever, infinite etc.

You are only applying the meaning you want to the term, to try to argue semantics, instead of addressing the topic of discussion.

We get it, you think that the science you learned in school knows absolutely everything, and that any deviation from your line of training should treated as a non sequitor.

Most will not agree with you, including those that wrote the books you read, and those that taught the teachers that taught you to only accept or follow a very limited world view.

Once again we understand your position, saying it "perpetually" will not make your point any more valid to anyone involved in this discussion.

I like the Howard Johnson design:





Website:
www.magniwork.co.uk...

Patent

Technically the tides are the catalyst that is pushing the moon away, as they are not directly in line with the moon, they actually preceed its gravitational influence, in effect speeding the moon up, which is why it is spiralling out, as its speed increases over time.( in theory, at present)

We will never trully know though, as we are a finite species, and are unlikely to survive long enough to have enough observational data to "prove" it either way. Or the ability to "create" a rfeal world life sized model to play with.

All that we really know for sure is that our best guess at the moment, tells us this is the case. Stay tuned, in 40 more years this will more then likely be "proved" wrong also.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


I am completely out of my league here but for the people arguing about perpetual motion instead talk about the state of inertia??
That makes more sense to me but again...I am out of my league here.


en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
I am completely out of my league here but for the people arguing about perpetual motion instead talk about the state of inertia??

The reason we don't do that is that an object has inertia even if it's not moving at all, and with perpetual motion obviously we are talking about things moving. Of course it can be related since inertia applies to moving objects also.

First. Let me say. However it is you have put yours together. The world is not ready for it. Keep it to yourself for now. You will know when the world is ready and the time is right to share it when and if it comes to that.

Not saying I have designed and built a working proto. But, if I had, I do believe it would be imprudent to release the cad until 3-D printing tech becomes commonplace in society. Just my honest opinion and I dont see it being very much longer now. Patience is always a virtue.

On that note, to answer the first question in your original thread post.

These are the terms and conditions you agree to.

And this may be the section relative to the inquiry made. It appears quite self explanatory.

17) Rights In Posted Materials: By posting on this message board, you relinquish all exclusive copyrights to any materials you Post

[size=10]and furthermore,

you grant TAN non-exclusive, non-revocable worldwide, royalty-free rights to copy, distribute, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, create derivative works, and publicly perform the materials in perpetuity in all forms.

This license applies to all works of authorship including, but not limited to, written materials (e.g., text), audio, audio-visual materials, graphics, and images (including, but not limited to, graphics and images used as avatars). You also grant all third parties the right to copy, distribute, display, reproduces, and publicly perform the materials you post under the terms of the Creative Commons License. TAN has the authority to decide to display your postings or not, and you grant TAN the right to modify your posts, remove offensive material, modify your post title to accurately reflect content, remove vulgar comments, remove insults, or delete any other content deemed inappropriate, all at our discretion.

Originally posted by jaden_x
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

It's a clever guess at trying to prove the Finsrud's machine is a hoax, but that's a pretty common circuit there, used in things like tattoo machines and door buzzers.

The guy has been letting people go check out his machine since he started it back in 1996, if it hasn't been proven a hoax by now then maybe there's something to it.

This is by design. They put this bs video up to convince the unknowing that this is how it works, so people won't take a look at the real device. Disinfo/ misinfo 101. I wouldn't expect less though, when it's your job to convince people not to think for themselves. After spending some time here, you should recognize the same old trolls pushing the same old crap, and informing you how everything we haven't done yet is impossible, because you know.. we are the pinnacle of the universe, and our human scientific laws can explain everything. Well, explain the non decaying spin of the electron.

Originally posted by Freezer
They put this bs video up to convince the unknowing that this is how it works, so people won't take a look at the real device.

"They"? Who is "they"? I saw one guy who put a ball on a paint can lid along with some other junk he had lying around the house. I didn't see any "they".

And who has done a better job of proving the laws of science than perpetual motion machine inventors? They have built thousands of devices for centuries, all of which have merely provided additional experimental evidence that science is correct.

Does science have all the answers? Of course not. But many scientific models have been tested many times and have lots of evidence to back them up. Any of them can be overturned with better evidence of a better model. Has anyone got that? If so then let's see it. Scientists want to see it too.

Ok .. sorry for the delay, lets get the spoon out of the way....

Get yourself a teaspoon, take it to the water tap or what ever you call it, turn on the tap and hold the spoon very lightly on the edges of the handle.

You should notice a difference when you hold the convex side of the spoon bowl into the water stream compared to the concave side.

The convex side will be drawn into the water and concave side will be pushed away by the water. I hope that is clear for any non mechanically minded people.

You just need to remember the above....... I forgot to mention this is ancient technology..

Next comes the fun bit... see you in a min....

Has this thread been killed yet?

Mods?

A little help here?

reply to post by emberscott

Agreed, I hate to admit this, but most of us humans are not ready yet for the kind of responsibility that comes from such technology, I believe it to be a wise decision for TPTB to withhold it, if in fact it has already been created.

I don't like it, but I do agree, to many people would to many bad things with the kinds of advances that could be gleened from this tech, think pandoras box. Once the lid is off it, you can't put it back in the box.

Maybe in another 35 generations or so, maybe not, those in power will have to decide. it sucks I know, but it is what it is.

reply to post by dontlaughthink


What you are discribing is a function on friction, it is the principle applied to achieve flight, I still don't see where your going with this though.

I am ready OP, amaze me please!

Perpetual motion machines are real, in a way. You need to give it some sort of energy to start, and then it goes forever. BUT, it doesn't create any extra energy, and unless it's 100% efficient, it will lose energy over time.

What is so far impossible, is a perpetual motion machine with ~/+110% efficiency, that way it can power itself and output power to another device. If they could do that on a large scale, energy would be free.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Butcher guy, perpetual has never meant forever, as forever is nonsense. Nothing is "forever" not even space or time. You are interpreting it to mean "forever" which is nonsense. If a man makes a machine and it runs for the length of his life without outside energy added, it would be labeled as perpetual motion, by every scientist on the planet. Stop using semantics to try to argue your point. It is not based in rational thought.

Erm you are having a laugh please look up the meaning of perpetual ! For those without a dictionary or are unwilling to look it up lest the description conflicts with their belief system, perpetual means forever.

Every true scientist on the planet would only label a machine as perpetual if they believed it would run forever....as in the dictionary definition.

Originally posted by dontlaughthink
Ok .. sorry for the delay, lets get the spoon out of the way....

Get yourself a teaspoon, take it to the water tap or what ever you call it, turn on the tap and hold the spoon very lightly on the edges of the handle.

You should notice a difference when you hold the convex side of the spoon bowl into the water stream compared to the concave side.

The convex side will be drawn into the water and concave side will be pushed away by the water. I hope that is clear for any non mechanically minded people.

You just need to remember the above....... I forgot to mention this is ancient technology..

Next comes the fun bit... see you in a min....

You mean an aerofoil ! Jesus H ! I think you might find there are lots of metal objects that are much heavier than the air they float in due to the more rapid flow of a fluid (air) above (a wing or spoon) than below.

You can also fold a piece of paper into a tunnel, blow through it and the sides collapse inwards ! Oh my God perpetual motion.....not. Just well understood physics.

Originally posted by Thebel
I would like to see Perpetual motion machine, but that is impossible. Motion is energy, and energy doesn't spawn from nothingness. All the Perpetual motion machines I have seen stop at some point.

If they work, our physics are wrong and science is failure

And they laugh at you at the Patent office, then the men in white coats take care of you

edit on 24-9-2012 by Thebel because: (no reason given)

Everything is moving and always has. Don't protons and neutrons go around a nucleus? When do they stop? When did they start. Go grab a rock if you want perpetual motion.

reply to post by yorkshirelad


Since you didn't read the whole thread I will state this again for you.

Perpetual has many uses and meanings, besides the only cherry picked by you, as every scientists on the planet will tell you, that nothing can "be" forever let alone work forever. Perpetual also has finite uses, which is the intent of the perpetual motion machine.

For example, some would say the U.S. is in a state of perpetual war, yet thinking it can only be applied to mean forever, infinite, endless, would obviously not make sense, as humans will not even be around forever. Neither will this world, neither will the petty problems. Of our civilization.

So once again, as stated above, when a store owner says, he had a perpetual line of customers come through the door, it was not intended as customers came through for ever, infinitely, without end. He meant that they came through all day, perpetually, as in persistent, nonstop, for the entirety of the businesses hours.

Context man, it is all about context.

Perpetual has more than one meaning, look it up on websters site.