Catholics to exclude dodgers of church tax , page 1


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Topic started on 24-9-2012 @ 05:09 AM by christina-66

Catholics to exclude dodgers of church tax .


www.theaustralian.com.au
ROMAN Catholics in Germany who decline to pay the country's church tax will be denied communion, confession and a religious burial under moves signed by the Pope that, in effect, excommunicate them.

The decree, issued yesterday by Germany's bishops and approved by Benedict XVI, seeks to end a long-running dispute over the implications for Germany's 24.6 million Catholics of opting out from a church tax.
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edit on 9/24/2012 by semperfortis because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 05:09 AM by christina-66
It would seem that many German Catholics have been leaving the church.... apparently as a reaction to decades of child abuse against German children by members of German Priests coming to light about two years ago.

Despite this church levy being optional, at the behest of German Bishops and with the approval of the Pope, Germans who do not pay will be refused the right to be members of a congregation, take communion, become God-parents or even to have a religious funeral.

Bizarre!!! Wasn't it this kind of conduct that caused the Reformation in the first place???


Martin Luther and his 95 Theses
A German monk by the name of Martin Luther was particularly bothered by the selling of indulgences. An indulgence, a religious pardon that released a sinner from performing specific penalties, could be bought from a church official for various fees. Martin Luther was especially troubled because some church officials gave people the impression that they could buy their way into heaven. To express his growing concern of church corruption, Martin Luther wrote his famous 95 Theses, which called for a full reform of the Christian Church. In it, he stressed the following points:

- People could only win salvation by faith in God's forgiveness. The Church taught that faith, along with good works was needed for salvation.

- The Pope is a false authority. The bible was the one true authority.

- All people with faith in Christ were equal. People did not need priest and bishops to interpret the bible for them. They could read it themselves and make up their own minds.


Source



www.theaustralian.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 24-9-2012 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:01 AM by Arbitrageur
reply to post by christina-66


The fastest growing religion in America: "None"
Secularization


I didn't find the graphs for Germany and the UK but I wouldn't be surprised if they followed similar trends, in fact the UK is probably ahead of the US in this trend.

Actions like in the OP might speed this trend up a bit in Germany.


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:08 AM by KaiserSoze
reply to post by JohnPhoenix



I'm not Catholic so don't take this as a confrontational type of question but, what would you consider a "true Christian religion"?


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:32 AM by christina-66
reply to post by charles1952



Yes...the 'church tax' is taken from every German of whatever religion to support it's running costs. However, it is supposed to be voluntary. Here in the UK, at my local church (not catholic) we make a donation at the service....if we choose not to donate the minister won't bar us from services/refuse to marry us/ or bury us.

Around 180,000 Germans a year are 'leaving' the Catholic Church and, according to the news articles, this is as a direct consequence of child abuse by priests. I feel sorry for these German Catholics.....starving the German Church of funds seems like a legitimate response to force it to get it's house in order. Instead the Catholic Church denies them the core practices of their faith (which seems to be rather cruel to me) when what the people really want is justice for their children and a change in management.

Anyway....what about all of the 'Render unto Caesar' stuff Jesus mentions in the Bible.


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:42 AM by something wicked
Originally posted by christina-66
reply to
post by charles1952



Yes...the 'church tax' is taken from every German of whatever religion to support it's running costs. However, it is supposed to be voluntary. Here in the UK, at my local church (not catholic) we make a donation at the service....if we choose not to donate the minister won't bar us from services/refuse to marry us/ or bury us.

Around 180,000 Germans a year are 'leaving' the Catholic Church and, according to the news articles, this is as a direct consequence of child abuse by priests. I feel sorry for these German Catholics.....starving the German Church of funds seems like a legitimate response to force it to get it's house in order. Instead the Catholic Church denies them the core practices of their faith (which seems to be rather cruel to me) when what the people really want is justice for their children and a change in management.

Anyway....what about all of the 'Render unto Caesar' stuff Jesus mentions in the Bible.


Hi,

This really isn't a Catholic Church issue and I think the article is misleading by implying it is. As Charles1952 says above, the 'tax' is collected by the state, not the church and cannot be compared to the donations made directly to the church. It seems in the UK we are different from most of Europe in this respect.


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:46 AM by christina-66
reply to post by something wicked



I know it's the German state's system but it is German Bishops who initiated this action...and the Pope who ratified it. I have to disagree with you and say that this really is therefore a Catholic issue.


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:48 AM by JohnPhoenix
Originally posted by KaiserSoze
reply to
post by JohnPhoenix



I'm not Catholic so don't take this as a confrontational type of question but, what would you consider a "true Christian religion"?


I consider a true Christian church one that teaches how to become a Christian by the example of Jesus and the Apostles as laid out in the bible. Mark 16: 16 sums it up in a nut shell. " He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" At the end of each of the 4 Gospels we see Jesus giving the great commission to go forth and make disciples of all nations. Jesus always taught two main things - repentance, and baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus was even baptized this way by John the baptist. At the end of each of the Gospels, Jesus tells the disciples to go and do these two things. Beginning in Acts ch 2 ( after Jesus went into heaven) and onward throughout the new testament we see the apostles doing only and always these two things to make converts. They did not say a sinners prayer to invite Jesus into their hearts. This is un-biblical - look at all the examples in the new testament and prove that this was never done - ( they claim it was done once in Romans, that's where they get the roman road/sinners prayer but they are taking the out of context) The disciples always after someone shows fruits for repentance, baptized them in the name of Jesus, not in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost.

There are several churches that believe this, you'll have to ask around but they must adhere to repentance ( turning away from your sins) baptism in the name of Jesus ( a full dunking) baptism in any other name or the title Father Son and Holy Ghost will not do. They must believe in living Jesus's words and doing all His commandments.

I was raised baptist which believes in a sinners prayer. I noticed they were not doing some things that were in the bible so I prayed for God to show me why. After much prayer, fasting and study, I believe God led me to a group of Christians that had the answers this is how they believed. After baptism it's encouraged to study pray, fast and live Jesus's words, through the doing of the words one will gain knowledge and truth through the Holy Spirit since Jesus words are spirit and life. It makes perfect since to me because it is exactly what the Bible teaches with no deviations. The particular church I belong to does not have a denominational name but is only considered a Christian Church.
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