What if there is destiny and freewill? andUnity/God was NOT the start but THE END, and we make past?

What if God or Unity Consciousness is the ETERNAL END RESULT, and NOW we are CREATING the past that will lead to this inevitable DESTINY?.


What if we ALL have a destiny in our lives, but it is our CHOICE how we are getting there, so we create the PAST and not THE FUTURE and there was NEVER a beginning!

Think about it, cause and effect is a law of THIS universe - and we can even see things that do NOT follow this law (virtual particles - pop into existence without cause).

What if this is how there is destiny but also free-will?

How can you talk of cause and effect but deny that there was a beginning. You contradict yourself. If there is causality everything must have a cause. The Universe and everything inside of it. if God is the end result of this than he is subject to causality. If he is not part of this close system than causality may not apply to him and in that case he must be the uncaused cause to the close system that is the Universe, and the beginning not the end result.

A tree does fall in the forrest,yet my fence doesn't get painted

reply to post by Ghezuz


Did I say that Cause leads to Effect? No. I was saying What IF "Effect" creates the "Cause".

So God is the end - it is all things merging together in unity for eternal, but now we are creating the PAST of how we got there...

What do you think of this?

Originally posted by all2human
A tree does fall in the forrest,yet my fence doesn't get painted

edit on 24-9-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)

What if the FENCE exist and therefore in order to make sense of it, The PAST is created of a tree being cut down?

What if only EFFECTS exists and CAUSES are CREATED in order to make sense of the EFFECT?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Ghezuz

 

Did I say that Cause leads to Effect? No. I was saying What IF "Effect" creates the "Cause".

So God is the end - it is all things merging together in unity for eternal, but now we are creating the PAST of how we got there...

What do you think of this?

Originally posted by all2human
A tree does fall in the forrest,yet my fence doesn't get painted

edit on 24-9-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)

What if the FENCE exist and therefore in order to make sense of it, The PAST is created of a tree being cut down?

What if only EFFECTS exists and CAUSES are CREATED in order to make sense of the EFFECT?

edit on 24-9-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

Effect leads to cause? If you want to change the laws of physics I have no doubt you will always have a counter argument.

Cause created in order to make sense of the effect? Even if this is a philosophy forums, I think you should further investigate the concept of space-time continuum and special relativity when trying to integrate them in your philosophical journey.

What if we took five minutes to sit and enjoy our time here. Forget trying to analyze info or thoughts to get down to what the beginning was/is, forget what the end could/will be. What if we focus on the now, all because now is gone in the slightest possible measurement of our time, all because what will be, or what was doesn't matter right "now".

Originally posted by arpgme
1: What if God or Unity Consciousness is the ETERNAL END RESULT, and NOW we are CREATING the past that will lead to this inevitable DESTINY?.

2: What if we ALL have a destiny in our lives, but it is our CHOICE how we are getting there, so we create the PAST and not THE FUTURE and there was NEVER a beginning!

Think about it, cause and effect is a law of THIS universe - and we can even see things that do NOT follow this law (virtual particles - pop into existence without cause).

3: What if this is how there is destiny but also free-will?

A very complex notion is being described here...

1: 'Eternal end result', is a clumsy phrase...Eternal, is enough...

The temporal markers...past, present and future (which are functions of this 'time' thing, in the locum that we are in) are, in reality, only 1 actual 'time'...

Destiny is a word that describes the node points of decisions made and choices taken...these can change, at any time, from second to second, depending on choices taken and decisions made...your 'destiny' is always where you are...until you arrive at the next nodal point...Nodal points that have been experienced, cannot be experienced in the same way again (although, a simulacrum can occur), they become what is termed, 'past' (although they have no physical location or substance)...Nodal points that are yet to be experienced, constitute all the situations you could be experiencing (exist as potentialities/probabilities)...although they have no physical location or substance...this is the 'future', and constitutes your destiny (dependant on decisions taken and choices made at the eternal nodal point of 'now')...

2: 'What if we ALL have a destiny in our lives, but it is our CHOICE how we are getting there...'

This is correct...

3: ...this is also correct...

Kudos

A99

reply to post by arpgme


virtual particle has a cause to pop into existence, it is called energy. ( A virtual particle is an unstable particle with very short life span.) I believe I pointed to an article about this in another thread. If I find it I will post it again for you.
But here is wiki on virtual particle en.wikipedia.org...

There is no cause and this is the effect.... else if you believe in cause and effect in a place that never started the cause will be the very effect you believed in having been caused. In such a place cause and effect are just two sides of the same coin...'

I like the idea of us being the creators of the past since the only thing we know for certain is what has already happened. However the past also shapes the future and as such we are back at the two sides of a coin. As is the God as the end and the beginning. ( Also how I understand the I Am the Alpha and the Omega) We are the containers of both past and future and we are situated in the now.

As for destiny v free will. If you are of the view that consciousness is all and you are just a ripple in that consciousness then your free will is your destiny and destiny your free will

Just thoughts much love

reply to post by IAmD1


Energy is not the cause of virtual particles. Virtual particles itself IS energy.

Even if it were exactly as you said, what caused energy? And what caused that which caused energy?

At some point, we'll have to go to the conclusion that cause and effect just appeared and there is/are something(s) that does not follow this physical law of logic "cause and effect".

reply to post by arpgme


How can there be destiny and free will? If you are destined to be someone or do something specific, then you have no free will. Right?

And will you please tell me what the hell your avatar means? LOL It looks like a flying/running pop tart cat with a rainbow contrail and a bunch of explosions. What, what, what???

reply to post by jiggerj


The destiny exists, but the free-will is choosing HOW you will get there - but you will get there no matter what...

Just a thought anyway.

As for the avatar. It is just a pop-tart cat flying in the night sky leaving a rainbow trail - it doesn't really mean anything.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by IAmD1

 

Energy is not the cause of virtual particles. Virtual particles itself IS energy.

Even if it were exactly as you said, what caused energy? And what caused that which caused energy?

At some point, we'll have to go to the conclusion that cause and effect just appeared and there is/are something(s) that does not follow this physical law of logic "cause and effect".

Cause and effect are just mind experiencing. Neither came before the other. Like in a wave which side is up and which is down? It all depends on which way you look at it. As humans we look at life as something following another thing, then we try to work out the relationship between our observations. Finally we add probability to the equation in order to work out whether the same two things are likely to happen in the same sequence again. We do this in order to find a best fit reality in which our survival is optimized. But just because we split reality into manageable bite sizes we call cause and effect - does that mean that is reality as it is? Or just our limited version of?

For instance a zebra goes grazing a little to the side of it's herd and gets eaten by a Lion. We assume the zebra moved to the side to find better grass, but maybe it moved to give the Lion a better chance at eating. (The hunger trigger that caused the zebra to move to the side could have been triggered by the rumbling belly of the Lion. The Zebra could have stayed with the herd but chose to move away. What caused that? The Hunger of the Zebra or the Hunger of the Lion?) We really do not know if it was so or not. Think about the many times you've done something completely at random only to find yourself in an awkward situation. What caused that? You or the situation that was to follow? It's much harder to prove the lions hunger was the cause than that the Zebra moved because it felt hungry. We are all connected what causes one thing or another is a much more gray area than you think. It is just that we agree to see things a certain way so that we can have communication and understanding on equal grounds.

In terms of our awareness of cause and effect they just appeared (two sides to the same coin) which appears to be first is more to do where we chose to start our awareness. But in reality they are not real.

just my thoughts.