Iraq official: N.Korea wants to fly through Iraq to Syria., page


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Topic started on 23-9-2012 @ 09:25 PM by GarrusVasNormandy
Damascus, Syria (CNN) -- North Korea requested permission from Iraq this week to fly a plane through its airspace to Syria, an adviser to Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki told CNN on Friday.

Al-Maliki rejected the request out of suspicion the plane would be carrying weapons, said adviser Ali al-Mousawi.
The prime minister talked by phone with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden on Friday afternoon, officials said.

Biden asked Iraq for help in stopping weapons from reaching Syria, according to a statement released by his office, and stressed to the Iraqi prime minister "the need to prevent any state from taking advantage of Iraq's territory or airspace to send weapons to Syria."


Source - CNN

This report came days after the exclusive report by Reuters, where it was stated that Iran was using civilian airliners from IranAir and Yas Air.

Western report - Iran ships arms, personnel to Syria via Iraq | ATS thread

If the report mentioned any western country or any country allied with Syria (Assad's regime), this would be yet another water drop in the middle of the ocean. However, I did think it is rather strange for North Korea to be supplying weapons to Syria.

My opinion was based on the belief that most - if not all - military equipment that North Korea has is russian made, or developed. If it's not russian, then I assumed it would be chinese (which is more of the same, since the chinese have a very large weapons deal with Russia).

I decided to do some research on the North Korea's ability to produce and export weapons.

It wasn't a surprise to notice that nearly all sources mentioned nuclear weapons - development, production, selling - but unless Syria is trying to buy a nuclear weapon, or nuclear technology, I was wondering what type of weapons and equipment North Korea could produce that they would be able to sell to Syria.

Once I was able to find what were the key words with which I should center my research, information started to flow:

Bloomberg - North Korea Exports $100 Million of Arms Each Year in Breach of Sanctions

North Korea exports $100 million in weapons and missiles each year in violation of United Nations sanctions, according to a UN expert panel’s report that said Iran and Syria may be among countries that received missiles.

The 75-page report, released today, also cited evidence compiled by the International Atomic Energy Agency, governments and news reports that North Korea is involved in “nuclear and ballistic missile related activities in certain other countries including Iran, Syria and Myanmar.”


(Chosun Ilbo) - How N.Korea Goes About Exporting Arms

Curbing North Korea's illicit arms trade is difficult since the renegade country launders containers carrying weapons three or four times, a defector who was in charge of illicit arms deals told the Chosun Ilbo on Monday.

(...)

Five departments of the North Korean government are involved in arms exports

(...)

The military arms production wing procures materials for the Yongbyon nuclear plant and North Korea's nuclear weapons program. "The General Bureau of Atomic Energy only produces yellow cake [the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment], while the arms production wing is in charge of the Yongbyon facility," the defector said. The Second Academy of Natural Sciences exports missiles and also provides after-sales service for exported products by upgrading performance and exchanging components.

"The main client is the research center of Iran's Revolutionary Guard, while experiments are conducted in unison," he said. Iran successfully test-fired a rocket on Feb. 3 which is believed to have been powered by the same engine as North Korean Rod ong missiles.

(...)

These "laundered" containers are laundered again in Hong Kong, Singapore or other ports. "The containers are mixed with other cargo in those transit points. They are searched, but not thoroughly," the defector added. "Even if customs or other officials roll their sleeves up and search for weapons, how can they possibly find the arms among the mountains of other containers headed to other countries?"

(...)

North Korea's main weapons production base is Kanggye General Tractor Plant No. 26. Before the Korean War, the plant was based in Pyongyang and made Soviet-designed PPSh 41 submachine guns but has since been relocated.

(...)

Small arms ammunition are hot export items and the Second Economic Committee even built a factory in Ethiopia," the defector said. The rugged AK-47s, which can operate flawlessly even in the sand-filled battlefields of the Middle East, are extremely popular, he said.

Anti-tank missiles are more complicated to manufacture, so the blueprints are in Russia, while North Korean factories are merely subcontractors. North Korean arms are believed to be exported to Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan and the Philippines. "North Korean weapons with engines [such as tanks] are extremely poor quality, but those carrying warheads are not bad," the defector said.

(...)


North Korea may have a crippled - to the point of non-existence - economy, and might have a starving country, but it appears that weapon production is a must-do for them. It is provably one of their main income sources, and they have made a clear point in building cheap, but reliable, equipment.

They don't make any weapons on their own - other than the nuclear warheads, since the missiles keep failing - but they do have some relative success selling russian and chinese weapons. The russians don't trust them with their best technology, since their protocols with Russia for the production of missiles is only as an outsourcing entity. The main production of that type of weapons is still based in Russia, although North Korea does receive special discounts when it buys those same missiles and weapons.

After analyzing these documents - and similar articles - I've come to the conclusion that North Korea has placed itself in a comfortable position to make a profit from selling arms. They are under close scrutiny because of the sanctions imposed by the UN, so they are an optimal arms dealer if the buyer wishes to remain anonymous. Both countries, while doing the transaction, can hide it from international eyes, and North Korea will do a tremendous effort to keep it in secret, otherwise, they will lose their income.

However, there is another important part to this reality.

I decided to look at the World map and objectively look at which arms dealers would be more reasonable to contact, instead of North Korea (with them being in Asia and all that).

After looking at some routes, I noticed that China might play a big center role in this.

80%~ of the territory that North Korea needs to go through in order to sell those weapons to Syria belongs to China.

[continues next post]
edit on 23-9-2012 by GarrusVasNormandy because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 09:40 PM by GarrusVasNormandy
After going through China - which I seriously doubt that poses any threat to these arms deals - they have a couple of possible routes to Syria:

- India. Which I doubt since they are closer to the West than what they are with North Korea.

- Pakistan. Which is possible, mostly because of their lack of control inside their own borders. But that lack of control is used as a coverup for Pakistan's activities, which could mean that, although they don't control terrorist groups inside their borders, they might not welcome foreign weapons traveling through their territory.

- Afghanistan. Which is also possible, but since there is a western military presence there, it's highly unlikely.

If they are able to pass through one of those countries - or using other peripheral routes around them - undetected, they can go to Iran. Iran clearly has a friendly relationship with North Korea, and wouldn't pose much of a resistance to those arms deals, since they benefit from it themselves.

But even if they land on Iran, the next jump point is also tricky. To the North you have Turkey, which is a NATO member and - I assume - won't allow such trade to pass through their airspace.

To the South there is Saudi Arabia, which is also doubtful because they have a large US presence, and after Saudi Arabia comes Jordanian territory.

The only real option would to be go through Iraq. I would put Iraq on the same playing field as Afghanistan, but since it was disclosed that Iraq was being used as a route for Iran's supply of weapons to Syria, it would come as no surprise if North Korea was doing the same.

In my opinion, the reason why Iraq is giving North Korea away is a disguised attempt to fall into Western good graces again, by stating "we don't allow these types of passages anymore" after getting caught with Iran.

North Korea might be a disposable asset to Iraq, to the point of ruining their arms deals in the area - or at least in Syria - but with this there are two important issues to consider:

1- Even North Korea is involved in the Syria conflict, being either a direct player or a proxy for China;
2- North Korea is as active in world affairs with Kim Jung-Un as it was with his father.

Also, if North Korea is in fact a proxy for China, then this shows that the chinese are also involved in Syria, and the whole concept of sides in a *possible* near-future war just became even more clearer.

Hope you enjoy the reading.


reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 09:57 PM by emberscott
In other news.

Everyone In The Gulf Was Shocked To See This Iraqi Patrol Boat


Like it or not, we all agreed, but today aboard the Ponce one of the countries ship's came close enough for me to snap this picture with a telephoto lens. It's the Iraqi patrol boat P-307 and it was sailing alongside the U.S. guided missile destroyer USS Gridley.

The P-307 was delivered to Iraq in March 2012, carries a 30mm cannon and is manned by crew of 25 sailors.[color=red] I talked to a Navy officer who told me if I was able to see it, I could go ahead and report it. Just to be sure, I asked him before we parted if he were sure no one would be upset about these pictures being posted, and he said "Not at this point. No."[/color]



reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 10:00 PM by GarrusVasNormandy
reply to post by superman2012


So Iraq is still scared of the US?


It appears so.

Otherwise, I wouldn't see a reason why Iraq would trash North Korea's party.

I don't understand. Aren't Iraq and Iran friends and North Korea and Iran friends, and Iran is friends with Syria? It seems like they are one big extended family.


I don't think that Iraq is regarded as friend in that area, after what happened with the US war and the influence the West had on the Iraq's new regime.

However, when Iraq and Iran collided in the 80's, they were under the rule of Saddam Hussein, who oppressed any opposition - opposition that was friendly towards Iran. After Saddam was gone, the oppressed tribes had an opportunity to rise again, and today, some of those groups are represented in the government.

That could fall on Iran's good side. One of the reasons why Iran was in fact allowed to ship weapons to Syria through them, like stated in the OP (related thread there).

By the way, one of the groups involved in the Iraq-Iran war, was MEK. Exactly the same group that was recently removed from the terrorist list.

Clinton to remove Iranian exile group from terror list

The World is a very small place, isn't it?



reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 10:06 PM by superman2012
Originally posted by emberscott
In other news.

Everyone In The Gulf Was Shocked To See This Iraqi Patrol Boat


Like it or not, we all agreed, but today aboard the Ponce one of the countries ship's came close enough for me to snap this picture with a telephoto lens. It's the Iraqi patrol boat P-307 and it was sailing alongside the U.S. guided missile destroyer USS Gridley.

The P-307 was delivered to Iraq in March 2012, carries a 30mm cannon and is manned by crew of 25 sailors.[color=red] I talked to a Navy officer who told me if I was able to see it, I could go ahead and report it. Just to be sure, I asked him before we parted if he were sure no one would be upset about these pictures being posted, and he said "Not at this point. No."[/color]




Makes sense that they would be out sweeping for mines. They have a vested interest in keeping the Strait open as well, and keeping peace with the US is great for them. I wonder though, has Iran threatened to close the Strait since July? I know that these were just mine sweeping exercises. Couldn't Iraq benefit from the US teaching them new ways to detect the mines? I don't believe Iran would attempt to close the Strait. It would be inviting an attack.


reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 12:20 AM by superman2012
reply to post by NullVoid


Yes I have to agree with you. How do we know who is telling the truth and who isn't. It's all a game to our "fearless" leaders.
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