Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Is the Religion of Islam intolerant?

page: 1
3
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:28 PM
link   
I'm asking because I don't know much about the Qur'an.

Is this just a case of misreading scripture like the Catholics and the Crusades? Or, is intolerance inherent in the Qur'an?

For instance, Jesus never forced anyone to follow him, so there wasn't any justification for the Crusades in Scripture. The rich man didn't follow Jesus and he didn't get struck by lightening or beheaded because he didn't follow Christ. Paul would preach the Gospel and some would follow and some wouldn't.

Is there intolerance in the Qur'an for those who are not Muslim or are the extremist doing what Catholics did in the Crusades and their using the religion as a reason to shed blood.




posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:46 PM
link   
I'm not completely sure you've been given the correct information on the Crusades. It's an interesting topic. May I suggest using wiki as a starting place for your studies?

Here's the start of one of their articles on the subject.

The Crusades were a series of religious expeditionary wars blessed by Pope Urban II and the Catholic Church, with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to the holy places in and near Jerusalem. Jerusalem was and is a sacred city and symbol of all three major Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). The background to the Crusades was set when the Seljuk Turks decisively defeated the Byzantine army in 1071 and cut off Christian access to Jerusalem. The Byzantine emperor, Alexis I feared that all Asia Minor would be overrun. He called on western Christian leaders and the papacy to come to the aid of Constantinople by undertaking a pilgrimage or a crusade that would free Jerusalem from Muslim rule. Another cause was the destruction of many Christian sacred sites and the persecution of Christians under the Fatimid caliph Al-Hakim.

www.ask.com...

So, a first opinion to have on the subject might be that the Crusades were a reponse to Muslim attacks, and were not primarily designed to convert anyone, but to protect Christians.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:47 PM
link   
Every religion claims to have the ultimate truth and is therefore somewhat intolerant. "Our version is the only right one."

The people, though, still have the capability of living in a way that is consistent and beneficial in modern society. Islam as a religion has some intolerance in scripture, but Muslims at large are no more intolerant as humans than others (all else being equal). Some reasons for problems in Islamic countries are economics, education and oppressive governance which amplify the issues in scripture.

This is why Muslims in developed countries, like America, tend to be quite tolerant.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:51 PM
link   
reply to post by neoholographic
 


It is somewhat inherent in the Quran. You should read it. It is a concept called dhimmitude. Non-Muslims in Muslim dominated lands must pay a tax. If they convert to Islam, then they don't have to pay. It is a system of coercion. As another example, when they took over Byzantium, the Muslims would even regulate how people could dress, however, they were tricky about it. Non-Muslims who wore the current fashions were threatened with the death penalty if they didn't convert immediately. The idea was that even dressing like a Muslim was a declaration that one was a Muslim and apostasy carried the death penalty (apostasy still carries the death penalty).

Muslims in Western countries are generally friendly/nice folks. I believe most people are nice anyway. However, the Quran tells them to get along if they're in the minority. The exception is when they're in a position to make a power grab. Once they reach critical mass, the game changes. Europe is beginning to see this.

A Muslim friend of mine refused to share a dorm room with me in college, because she didn't want my bible or Christian prayers interfering with her space. After she explained how her Quran would have to have the highest place of display in the room, and I asked 'why' out of curiosity, she told me that it wasn't going to work out. Similarly, in other countries, they will demand mosques in certain places- yet watch out if you dare suggest a church or religious rights in Muslim dominated countries. A specific example: When an outcry arose over people demanding a big mosque in Moscow, Medvev's response was classic. "We'll build a mosque in Moscow as soon you build an Orthodox church in Riyadh.'' We never heard another word of it in the media after that.

In my observation- Islam always wants tolerance, but they rarely give it in return. They'll tolerate you as long as you play by their rules. For some reason, it has become unpopular to tell this truth. I understand that it is disturbing, but it is what it is.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:54 PM
link   
There is tolerance, but lots of propaganda has gone into masking that,
it says" there is no compulsion in religion"..you are free to follow whatever religion you want.

Here is the tricky part that many do not know and overlook, there is no "ISLAM" per se as a word.

if you say "IS-lam" in arabic , the english translation is Submission, that is , submission to god and god alone.

ther is no MUSLIM religion, that word does not exist in arabic, Muslim=a submitter.

So to make it easy, you can be of any religion and be a "muslim" or a submitter to god and god alone, following NO idols whatsoever.
Now, who is God? this is the issue.My god or your god.was jesus a God or merely a prophet sent from god to spread a good message? here is where things start to be divided and objections raised.

Mohammed, was a prophet, a messenger sent by god to lead the people to a better life , an equal life .

Then came the stories of pedophelia and murder etc etc,muhammed never actually attacked anyone who did not want to convert, he was the one attacked for trying to spread the message, and he fought back.... do not listen without having researched yourself.
I am a muslim by choice, dad is a muslim, and mom is a christian.i chose islam as it was , for me at least, more consistent and all my questions could be answered without vagueness or fill in the blanks.
when i find dozens of different versions of the bible, each saying different things, then i steer clear .
The quran has not been changed ever since it was brought and compiled together.

and ll the quotes of murder, and killing and beheading can all be simply explained when things are NOT taken out of context and you have the full meanings of the verses.

By the way, there is more killing, murder, pedophelia, stoning etc in the bible than there ever will be in 1000 qurans.
You said jesus never forced anyone...umm..check again

LUKE 19:27 "But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence"

dozens more if you check.

When you ask around, you will get alot of answers, stay away from extremists, from every faith, they are the ones that religion should defend itslef from.

The quran is extremely tolerant, and no one forces you to convert.You have a choice long time ago , in wars, it was convert and be one of us, and have equality , or stay a prisoner .
Today, you dont get to ask that, you are beheaded, because extremists want to have their own damn way and it makes everyone look bad. if you have anything more to ask, then please do so, i will try my best to answer you even though i am not a scholar but i do know what i must.

cheers
edit on 23-9-2012 by rhazer because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:56 PM
link   
reply to post by LeSigh
 


Great answer. That's the kind of info I was looking for and I will do some research on the subject.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:01 PM
link   

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."


Answer: yes.


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"


Calling a spade a spade. The question is Islam intolerant, not is Christianity or any other religion, but that one specifically...and there is no doubt about it. it simply is.

Own it...wear it!



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."


Answer: yes.


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"


Calling a spade a spade. The question is Islam intolerant, not is Christianity or any other religion, but that one specifically...and there is no doubt about it. it simply is.

Own it...wear it!



Both of these two verses you stated above are taken out of context.

the unbelievers are the enemy in battle.
strike off their heads and fingertips. why not try to explain it before you post it. It is a combat technique back in those days that the weakest spot of a man was the neck, and that is the weak spot in armor etc.it is very lethal.
As for the fingers, well do i need to explain? that a man without fingers cannot hold a sword or bow and arrow to fight?



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."


Answer: yes.


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"


Calling a spade a spade. The question is Islam intolerant, not is Christianity or any other religion, but that one specifically...and there is no doubt about it. it simply is.

Own it...wear it!



Both of these two verses you stated above are taken out of context.

the unbelievers are the enemy in battle.
strike off their heads and fingertips. why not try to explain it before you post it. It is a combat technique back in those days that the weakest spot of a man was the neck, and that is the weak spot in armor etc.it is very lethal.
As for the fingers, well do i need to explain? that a man without fingers cannot hold a sword or bow and arrow to fight?



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."


Answer: yes.


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"


Calling a spade a spade. The question is Islam intolerant, not is Christianity or any other religion, but that one specifically...and there is no doubt about it. it simply is.

Own it...wear it!



Both of these two verses you stated above are taken out of context.

the unbelievers are the enemy in battle.
strike off their heads and fingertips. why not try to explain it before you post it. It is a combat technique back in those days that the weakest spot of a man was the neck, and that is the weak spot in armor etc.it is very lethal.
As for the fingers, well do i need to explain? that a man without fingers cannot hold a sword or bow and arrow to fight?



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:11 PM
link   
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


True, but modern Muslims could always place more weight in these:


"Say ye: 'We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord. We make no difference between one and another of them, and we bow to God.' " Chapter 2, Verse 136



“God does not forbid you to be kind to those who do not take arms against you. God loves those who are just” (60:8)



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:12 PM
link   
You must consider that Islam isn't a monolithic religion. The branches of Islam are quite different from one another and some are more intolerant of outsiders and more aggressive than others. I think the more fundamental a branch is the more likely they are to be insular and strictly adherent to Sharia law.

Anyways, some members of the faith are bad apples and they can cause a lot of harm, but very many are generally good people. It's like members of any faith, really.

But the ones that actually do plot to expand fundamentalist Sharia do concern me.
edit on 23-9-2012 by Mkoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by neoholographic
I'm asking because I don't know much about the Qur'an.


The "religion" of islam is predicated on intolerance.

The koran commands its followers to strive for islam until it is the only religion left in the world. islam is the ultimate "replacement theology."

islam states that Judaism and Christianity are perverse distortions of G-d's message to humanity, and that mohammed was sent to rectify this and to establish a true, uncorrupted faith.

islam is more accurately described as a totalitarian political ideology than a religion. It requires muslims to establish governments that follow islamic law.


Originally posted by neoholographic
Is this just a case of misreading scripture like the Catholics and the Crusades?


You are very wrong about the Crusades. The Crusades were a defensive maneuver that literally saved Europe from muslim invasion. At the time of the Crusades the muslims had successfully invaded all of Spain and Portugal and had dominated there for roughly three centuries (they dominated Spain & Portugal for another 5 centuries). They controlled Sicily and other parts of Italy and southern France. They were making tremendous progress in invading Europe from the southeast.

If the Crusades hasn't forced the attention of muslim armies to the middle east, Europe may well have been lost to the death cult.


Originally posted by neoholographic
For instance, Jesus never forced anyone to follow him, so there wasn't any justification for the Crusades in Scripture. The rich man didn't follow Jesus and he didn't get struck by lightening or beheaded because he didn't follow Christ. Paul would preach the Gospel and some would follow and some wouldn't.


Correct, and you're touching on an essential difference between Christianity and islam. The message of the Christian Bible is peace and love. The example of Jesus is peace and love. The message of the koran is hatred, violence, and utter intolerance. The example of mohammed is hatred, violence, and utter intolerance. mohammed was a thief, pernicious liar, rapist of children, and a genocidal maniac.

Fun fact: the traditional age of consent under islam is NINE. Why nine? Because mohammed the child rapist decided that nine year old girls were old enough for sex. Another fun fact: muslim girls can be married off at as young as six years old. Why? Because that was the age of mohammed's youngest wife.

Due to the revulsion this generates in non-muslim cultures some muslim countries have relatively recently altered their marriage and age of consent laws. Today many muslim countries have age's of consent of 15-18, in line with most of the rest of the world. Saudi Arabia is an exception: there are no age restrictions there for marriage or consummation, eight year olds are being wed to men in their fifties.


Originally posted by neoholographic
Is there intolerance in the Qur'an for those who are not Muslim or are the extremist doing what Catholics did in the Crusades and their using the religion as a reason to shed blood.


Again wrong about the Crusades. The Crusades were defensive and essential to the defense of Europe. That said: no there is no tolerance in islam. The koran states over and over and over that other religions are man-made perversities and that non-muslims (and muslims of insufficient faith) will be tortured in hell for all eternity. The koran states that the non-muslims will have their skin melted off in hell, and then they will be given new skin so that too may be melted off.

Here's the punishment for people that don't believe in mohammed's message, according to the koran:



koran 4:56
Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.




koran 22:19-22
These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.


mohammed was one sick animal: he is also recorded in the hadith as engaging in countless acts of torture. (The hadith are basically "historical" accounts of the life of mohammed and his companions.) If mohammed needed information from someone or merely wanted to kill them it was highly likely they'd be tortured to death, and no one was safe from this, even old women would be tortured to death. It takes a truly demented and evil creature to do such things.
edit on 23-9-2012 by Spooky1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 07:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by neoholographic
I'm asking because I don't know much about the Qur'an.

Is this just a case of misreading scripture like the Catholics and the Crusades? Or, is intolerance inherent in the Qur'an?

For instance, Jesus never forced anyone to follow him, so there wasn't any justification for the Crusades in Scripture. The rich man didn't follow Jesus and he didn't get struck by lightening or beheaded because he didn't follow Christ. Paul would preach the Gospel and some would follow and some wouldn't.

Is there intolerance in the Qur'an for those who are not Muslim or are the extremist doing what Catholics did in the Crusades and their using the religion as a reason to shed blood.


Is it intolerant? Why would you think that? Is it the decapitations?



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 10:32 PM
link   
reply to post by rhazer
 





Both of these two verses you stated above are taken out of context.

the unbelievers are the enemy in battle.
strike off their heads and fingertips. why not try to explain it before you post it. It is a combat technique back in those days that the weakest spot of a man was the neck, and that is the weak spot in armor etc.it is very lethal.
As for the fingers, well do i need to explain? that a man without fingers cannot hold a sword or bow and arrow to fight?



You're right.
People who quote the sword verses neglect the part about them referring to enemy combatants in battle.

edit on 23-9-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 12:22 AM
link   
reply to post by rhazer
 


Why did you post the same answer three times?Is that the brainwashing kicking in?The quotes are pretty clear,what else is a 'unbeliever'?
Maybe its someone who doesn't believe in a fifty something year old man having a six year old as his wife?



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 01:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by rhazer
 





Both of these two verses you stated above are taken out of context.

the unbelievers are the enemy in battle.
strike off their heads and fingertips. why not try to explain it before you post it. It is a combat technique back in those days that the weakest spot of a man was the neck, and that is the weak spot in armor etc.it is very lethal.
As for the fingers, well do i need to explain? that a man without fingers cannot hold a sword or bow and arrow to fight?



You're right.
People who quote the sword verses neglect the part about them referring to enemy combatants in battle.

edit on 23-9-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


They don't neglact, they just don't know !
They merely, brainwashed, copy from hate sites.
In our time, we find it becoming more and more common for some people to misquote verses from the Quran, or narrations of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), in order to support their twisted presentation of Islam as a hostile and violent religion. The majority of these verses are either mistranslated, taken out of context, or misunderstood due to lack of basic knowledge.
As we shall see, once understood properly, it becomes apparent that Islam teaches nothing but harmony and tolerance for all humanity. They have selected and quoted the verses/narrations in the way that they are circulated by the Islam-haters, so that the poor translation and other deceptive tactics of the Islam-Haters may be exposed.
www.aboutjihad.com...

Examples of religious tolerance which the Prophet laid.
www.islamreligion.com...
www.faithinallah.org...
www.systemoflife.com...
mercyprophet.org...

Note that the word sword is found 0 times in quran.
edit on 24-9-2012 by Anonymousman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 01:39 AM
link   
reply to post by Anonymousman
 

Just purely out of curiosity, no tricks, what do you say to people who aren't knowledgable about the Koran but say "I think Islam is a hostile and violent religion because of what its followers do in the name of the religion?"

Help would be appreciated.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:23 AM
link   
reply to post by charles1952
 


Either bury them up to the neck and throw rocks off their head,string upside down and club their feet or behead them.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 03:08 AM
link   
reply to post by Anonymousman
 




In our time, we find it becoming more and more common for some people to misquote verses from the Quran, or narrations of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), in order to support their twisted presentation of Islam as a hostile and violent religion.


The people who try and portray Islam as a hostile and violent religion are either ignorant of the rules of war in Islam.... or willingly deny it. These Islamic rules of war protected women, children and non-combatants and also called for the dignified treatment of prisoners of war.

Islamic rules of war summarized by Abu Bakr....

Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone.


Now compare that to the violence in the bible where the Israelites slaughtered women, children and old people.... took the virgin women as prisoners.... even slaughtered animals.

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
-Numbers 31:17-18

Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”
-1 Samuel 15:3)

Christian overlook such gruesome violence in the bible and then insist that the bible teaches love and the Koran teaches violence.... absolutely ridiculous.

Even during the crusades muslims fed and took care of the Frankish army after defeating them....Oliverus Scholasticus writes about the muslims treatment of the prisoners of war....

"Who could doubt that such goodness, friendship and charity come from God? Men whose parents, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, had died in agony at our hands, whose lands we took, whom we drove naked from their homes, revived us with their own food when we were dying of hunger and showered us with kindness even when we were in their power"

These are things that the typical anti-Islamists DON'T want to bring up.... because one cant make a case that Islam is inherently violent, while at the same time, stating the facts about Islams rules of war. Its a whole lot easier to simply parrot Surahs 9:123 and 8:12 over and over and over... all out of context of course.

Further reading :
Islamic military jurisprudence
Prisoners of war in Islam

edit on 24-9-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)





new topics

top topics



 
3
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join