More Americans now commit suicide than are killed in car crashes as miserable economy takes its toll

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by beezzer

 

Are we seeing the result of a generation with poor decision-making abilities?

Beez, I have no idea to which "generation" you claim membership....

but this is a wildly unfair statement.

In my opinion, the death of hope that "the American dream" can still be realized is the cause of this. Those who invested in the stock market with rose-colored glasses, and put everything they had into its grimy, slimy hands, are surely beyond disappointed.

That does NOT mean that those of us born in the 40s and 50s are all "poor decision makers". I hope you are willing to retract that statement. There are no fewer "yuppies" now than there were 20 years ago.

Actually, I was refering to the younger generations. I'm a boomer. Born in the early 60's.

From my observations, it's the younger, not older folks that have a more difficult time coping with stressors that us older folks take for granted.

reply to post by Hefficide


I fully accept your right not change your opinion, and in my book I have ticked you specifically as someone that generally immovable on his views. Not that they are exactly contrary to mine, but you tend to make assumptions on general terms interpretation and generalize things to a point of seeing them as black of white. I only participated in benefit of other less informed, as to provide a counter-point to show that there is more than one way to look a things. This is not a critique or an attack, I just disclosing my opinion, I don't share such a simple view of reality, so I see as even if you do not benefit for what I contribute that you at least ponder the issues under this light.

Over 90 percent of people who die by suicide have a mental illness at the time of their death.

Does this statement seem correct and acceptable to you ?
Does it implicate that the action results directly from any illness ?
Do you accept some partiality on the source ?
How do they define suicide and where did they get the 90% number ?
Does it cover all the globe or only the US ?
Do you trust the dictates of the National Institute of Mental Health ? (I can't remember the name but there is a very good documentary on how "America" exports ("creates") not only mental illnesses, that are not really applicable to other cultures and at the same time provides the pills to mitigate issues that previously did not exist)

Note that the second page you point is distinct, relates only partially. That the "risk factors" listed are not explicitly related to mental health issues.

I generally have a very hard problem in accepting very strict definitions regarding who is sane or insane. Except when based on neurological reasons all mental health issues seems pretty flimsy to me.

Accepting the genetic and mental health aspects as givens - then we are left to address triggers for suicide - which are very specifically emotional in nature

No such acceptance here to both, the root being a mental health issue or that it strictly relates to emotional issues. This seems like the argument against womens' emancipation and voting, the poor fragile creatures are so weak minded and emotionally driven that they should not be given control over their own lives and equal social participation. Like I said at the start this strict view of yours is archaic...

And emotions, by definition, are irrational. They exist, largely, specifically as a mechanism to override biological imperatives and our more primal natures.

This is so wrong that I urge you to start a thread on the issue if you like to debate it. Emotions can lead to false or twisted logic but they themselves are not irrational as you are defining them.

Take for instance fear, there are more ways to logically validate the emotion than those that would define it as irrational, even situations of irrational fear are based on rational and logical causes. Take a look at Wikipedia's article on Emotional Intelligence, disregard the small introduction that can be a bit confusing.

This news should make people who believe in population control and depopulation very happy. One of the goals of progressives is to lower the population. This is good news to those who want to go forward to a "better tomorrow".

reply to post by beezzer

Actually, I was refering to the younger generations. I'm a boomer. Born in the early 60's.

Thanks for clarifying. I was born a few years earlier.

One of the things we can state about the Gen Y's and the Millenials (now the 20- and 30-somethings) is that they are far, far more aware of the world's ills than we were as kids, and far more connected to it. Bombarded from all sides.

There is talk of them being the "me" generations, and certainly "we" were not brought up in that manner. I am a parent of two young-20s, both of which I nurtured and did my best to teach "critical thinking skills."

Additionally, the factor that we grew up during the "Cold War" is a major difference between the two generations...
today's professional and working adults (post-school) are coming up in war-times, and 9/11 itself occurred in their tender years, or adolescent years....we had nothing like that to adjust to as youth. Kids are more savvy today, and have way, way more access to all manner of stimulus and counter-culture or other-culture thought....the world must seem to them quite more wild than ours did to us (although we saw our elder siblings or the sibs of our peers being traumatized and dealing with the aftermath of Vietnam. I have a vague memory of student protests and marches, flower children and such....but was on the fringe and only marginally exposed to them, as the oldest child in my family...I was a New-Wave hippy, so to speak)....

we (the Boomers, or the Generation Joneses, as the later wave have been separated out) still believed in the pattern of each generation being able to succeed a bit better than our parents, and their parents before them. Nowadays, that is not the case. I think it's been a big blow to our own world-views (as middle-aged adults now) that we are NOT generally better off than our parents were; and see that our kids do NOT have the same opportunities that we could count on (and now have lost, which I think has led to much middle-aged suicide, as those who invested in the game lost everything)...

our kids DO have the threats of World War, terrorism, financial crisis, HIV/AIDS (which was a non-prob back in the 80s...the wild times ( ) of carefree decadence and indulgence. Those times seem so benign compared to now.

Sometimes now I hope my kids decide not to have kids of their own...though only a couple of years ago I fantasized about it with glee...

so. Are they poor decision-makers? Or are they just bewildered and feeling there's little point to trying? There's no question that one has to go on simple, blind, old-fashioned "faith" that "everything will be okay"...when it's not at all clear that everything will be okay. In fact, quite the contrary.

It makes me sad.

reply to post by all2human

And the tax code, at least here in Canada,makes it undesirable economically to be middle class because of the ammount taxable on earnings,seems there is a direct attempt by government to keep us poor..
The system is rigged and there is no way of truly winning or getting ahead without winning the lottery or applying some creative thinking.
Your money or your life..some people choose there life.
Have to re-focus whats important and live within your means,we don't need the newest gadgets or fancy clothes to be happy,better to have no money than to owe money, can't buy time so..spend it wisely

It might be worse here in the US. I have lots of creativity, in fact I have invented dozens of things and also modified numerous things to make them actually work better. Here in the US, you still have to have marketing skills, and a but load of money to push your ideas. Even then its still a crap shoot and might not pan out. I have had a few friends that tried the patend road and it didn't pan out either. It's honestly like you said, you either hit the lotto or there is nothing for you.

I hate slavery, and I honeslty feel that our planet has to be the greediest. Not that I have ever been elsewhere. I think that anytime employers can legally pay someone a wage that allows that person to just barely get by, there is something wrong with the system. What if that person hits a bad streak and has to have a $25,000 surgery because they need to have their gall bladder removed and didn't make enough to take the health package? Thats how it is.

The occupy movement is just about this problem, people are sick of working for slave wages and are protesting because of it. The sad part is that no one is expecting to get rich, they just want to be compensated fairly. That should include health and education costs. It's funny because the poor people make up the majority of the world, and businesses actually depend and couldn't function without us poor people there to run those businesses for them. The problem is that there is always someone poorer standing in line for that same job, so the employer gets aways with cheating us.

You see it wasn't enough for rich people to make money off their business, they also felt it necessary to make a profit off the employee as well. Thats why there is this popular saying amongst business owners where they say they would rather have 100 employees only giving 1% instead of 1 employee giving 100%. Business owners feel the need to own people. I'm so sure of this, that I have even had personal experiences that extend outside the work work place. It's not enough they want to own us, but they also want to own us outside of work as well, and I have had several things that have happened to me that prove it.

reply to post by Hefficide


First- I'm glad you're still around to tell the tale.

Second- You brought up something that is overlooked. The doctors told you that the amount of alcohol you drank influenced you. In many cases, medications can make people suicidal. I've seen this sudden change in another person happen so fast it was scary. I think we all could do to be more diligent about how the things we put in our bodies can influence us and our loved ones.

Awesome. Thats means the weak of mind and spirit are offing themselves. Good deal. More air for the rest of us who have a pair and want to live. Sorry, no sympathy for those who take the sissy way out.

reply to post by silent thunder


Over the last 3 years, within a 25 mile radius from where I live, there have been 5 suicides of young people. The worst case being a 7 year old boy that hung himself. A 15 or 16 year old girl that hung herself from her bedroom ceiling fan. A 19 year old man who jumped out in front of a semi truck on i-75. Another young man who jumped in front of a train and a woman in her twenties that laid down on railroad tracks and was struck by a train. 4 of these suicides were in nice suburb areas only within 15 minutes of each other and the 7 year old was in the city. And these were only cases that the local news covered...there could be more.

The one girl that hung herself from her ceiling fan did it because of bullying and what's really sick is when someone made a facebook page for friends and family to visit, people were leaving sick messages and horrific pictures. It was awful.

I think bullying at school was the 7 year olds reason also. So sad.

reply to post by Hope4peace


Oh, just remembered another one that was fairly recent....two 15 year old girls that laid down in the middle of a high speed limit road at night. They were struck by a truck or van I think.

Something is definitely going on. I think the internet has contributed to these young suicides. I'm 40 years old and when I was growing up I never saw images of death, war, immoral sex and other disgusting things that are easily accessible via the internet these days. Kids are learning early on what a screwed up world we live in and it's probably harder for their young minds to cope with.

I think the economy, war and people "waking up" is maybe contributing to the adult suicides.

reply to post by itsthetooth


Well i completely understand,working for just enough to work another day is not a great way to make a living,but it is a reality for billions of people,myself included
When i was working for the 'man' in a warehouse i would take cash-side jobs doing various construction projects on week-ends to pad my income,it made a lot of difference and gave me a chance to hone-in my other skills that i enjoyed doing.
I did all sorts of stuff from changing old ladies light bulbs to replacing decks.
After a while i started getting refferals and eventually built a client base,i didn't charge much,did my own paper work and always kept my expenses transparent,i was clean and friendly and courteous,soon enough i was able to leave my other job to become self-employed.
In addition to word of mouth business i started advertising,designed my own logo and came up with a business name,got insurance,started introducing myself to contractors,real-estate agents,and building managers,i had a friend help me set-up a website,and placed an add in the paper had some cards made for cheap and signs developed.
Still to this day i am self employed,feeling productive and doing something i enjoy,although i have to hustle for work all the time,and i'm not making money hand over fist but at least i'm not bending over for the man and if i want i can actually sleep in on Monday's,or spend quality time with the kids.

reply to post by Hope4peace


Blame society (sharing part of the blame) and do not call it suicide. I doubt that anyone younger than 21 can have all the facts and awareness to make suicide an action of self determination, often these deaths are the result of mental torture (define that as you like). In a sane society these deaths should be open to investigation and sanctions applied to those responsible, including the state.

I'm all for a stricter procreation laws, and more effort in providing family planing information, today babies should not continue to be accidents and not all citizens should be able to procreate. This alone would be a great topic for a thread...

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by Hope4peace

 

Blame society (sharing part of the blame) and do not call it suicide.

-More like Blame there parents 100%

I doubt that anyone younger than 21 can have all the facts and awareness to make suicide an action of self determination

-These are the most difficult years of a persons life,without propper guidance and positive reinforcement things happen,kids become 'aware' pretty early on in life,i know i did..

often these deaths are the result of mental torture (define that as you like).

-add neglect

In a sane society these deaths should be open to investigation and sanctions applied to those responsible, including the state.

-a little extreme

I'm all for a stricter procreation laws

-alot extreme

and more effort in providing family planing information,
today babies should not continue to be accidents and not all citizens should be able to procreate.

-unbelievably extreme,Nazi ideology anyone?

edit on 24-9-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-9-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)

reply to post by all2human


I've defended eugenics in other thread and having a view or opinion to the betterment of the human condition does not make me a NAZI. Having said that (and because I leave if to you to hunt down me previous statement on this regard) I just say that at a civilizational level it would be extremely dangerous to implement some restrictions regarding freedoms and liberties over ones body, but to a point we already do.

I see more just society if for instance we prevented animal and child abusers to procreate, not strictly permanently or irreversibly but for instance fine and or remove custody of the child in these type of cases.

I would be against it being used in regards to economic reasons since that is most of the time outside of the parents power, but I see a problem in conceiving a child at a moment that one has not means for supporting it (we already have this type of restrictions regarding animal ownership). This of course would only make sense if real sex educations as well as family planing information and help was provided.

But we arnt discussing animal,child abusers or people wanting to concieve during economic hardships.
No offence but Thank god your idea will never fly..my dad was poor and used to kick my a** , it shouldn't mean my two little brothers would never get a chance at life,or i should grow up in an institution without a father..
And 99% of the poplulation of the planet are and have been experiencing serious financial difficulties,me incuded and i have two awesome happy kids,and i'm a awesome happy dad,i guess you think only the top 1% should breed..
Sorry but i don't expect anyone willing to let big brother in to manage the family..
This thread is about suicide,your plan would send more kids over the bridge,trust me..we value our freedoms.
Although i do agree 100% people should spay and neuter there pets,and i truly believe you have good intentions,but lets keep in mind what the road to hell is paved with..

reply to post by Panic2k11


I can kind of understand what you are saying....If our world was led by moral leaders than I could see some kind of drug being created that when given to babies at birth would keep them from being able to reproduce until they are maybe 28, married, responsible and ready for a family, then " Bam!" Give them the antidote to make them able to reproduce. No more teen pregnancies. A lot of problems would be solved. But in this world it would not work that easily. Who would be the one to judge when a couple is ready to have a family? Different people would have different ideas on this and it would just cause bickering.

reply to post by Panic2k11


I do think they need to crack down on internet bullying. Laws need to be put into effect to protect kids from abuse and slander.

reply to post by Hope4peace


Fine the parents, legal restrict the child to use the net unsupervised. Increase social and civil education, this would also help other issues.

I think they (governments) in general really what people to be ignorant and prone to violate laws and morals, this makes them more manageable. Parents have a lot to be blamed but some of the burden should be on the system at all levels.

People are urged to dedicate themselves to immediate satisfaction of needs in place of long term planing. A parent today has a limited time to properly educate his child because he has not only to support them, but is socially pressed to provide for wants and material acquisition in place of being presses to provide love and attention.

reply to post by all2human

Thank god your idea will never fly..my dad was poor and used to kick my a** , it shouldn't mean my two little brothers would never get a chance at life,or i should grow up in an institution without a father.. And 99% of the poplulation of the planet are and have been experiencing serious financial difficulties,me incuded and i have two awesome happy kids,and i'm and awesome happy dad,i guess you think only the top 1% should breed..

It depends on how your father kicked your ass and how you manage to deal with that, I'm certain that you can see some ass kicking being abusive enough to deem a parent unfit or a child that has not been provided enough support and balancing love and attention to withstand or even understand why it is being kicked. There are levels of violence. I do not see violence as necessary, not even with "lower" animals.

Economic difficulties does not mean inability to provide. There are "needs" and "wants", the first have priority over the second. In the same setting one does not need to procreate, the time that procreation was basically a guessing game is over people should start to behave accordingly, even by simply being responsible.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by Hope4peace

 

People are urged to dedicate themselves to immediate satisfaction of needs in place of long term planing. A parent today has a limited time to properly educate his child because he has not only to support them, but is socially pressed to provide for wants and material acquisition in place of being presses to provide love and attention.

-I agree,because of financial obligations,a lot of parents are often overworked,undernourished and exhausted at the end of the day and have little time for meaningful input with there children,who are too often consumed by the latest video game or episode on tv.
All mom and/or dad need to do is summon the energy and put there foot down,and have a heart to heart with there kids,and plan a realistic strategy of how to more balance there needs with there wants

edit on 24-9-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Panic2k11


What didn't kill me,made me stronger
had to say it