More Americans now commit suicide than are killed in car crashes as miserable economy takes its toll

Originally posted by PW229

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Hefficide

 

Thanks for sharing that, Heff.

Unfortunately, after Heff's rather well written proclamation on manipulation it is difficult to take his posts seriously. One always reads them with this niggling thought, "Is he up to his old games again, the ones he freely admitted to?"

I had something succinct and pertinent to say but after a Heff post, no thanks. Maybe that's the manipulation?

There's plenty to lie about on the intraweb, I hear it all the time when I'm on my yacht.

But suicide? Not something people generally joke about.

To understand why anyone commits suicide would mean that you would have to live their life, walk their journey so that you can fully understand what was going on in their head.

Its too easy to say that they have taken the easy route or such comments, as far as the deceased is concerned it may have been their ONLY choice!

Originally posted by seagull
Suicide is one way out of their problems...

A selfish one, mind you, but a solution none the less.

Remarkable that things could ever seem that bad... I've been diagnosed with cancer...been so far behind on by bills that my phone never stopped ringing during business hours.

Yet the sun never failed to rise. ...and wonders of wonders... things got better. The cancer is gone. The bills are almost caught up on, by next year, they will be.

What good is accomplished by offing ones self? Just more issues for ones family. Funeral expenses on top of the things that will still be there after you're dead and gone.

Cowardly is the first word comes to mind.

Originally posted by seagull

Some elses fault? Really?

Those CEO's didn't make anyone pull that damned trigger or pop the pills. Save the blame for the one's stupid enough to think that suicide is the answer.

Selfish? Cowardly? Stupid enough? How pompous and illogical.

You have no clue what is going on in other peoples heads. NONE. You are an individual, and just because you did not choose as they did, indicates NOTHING in terms of cowardice, selfishness, or intellect. By assuming such though, you show your arrogance and weak use of logic by using such poor logical induction that since your circumstances got better, all others must follow precisely as yours did.

It just pisses me off seeing people with your attitude. Get over your god damned ego, and stop judging others just because they chose a different path than you.

Show some compassion.

"Let he without sin cast the first stone", so drop that boulder your carrying seagull and others with the same attitude, come down off your high horses, and if you cant exude anything other than condescension and a lack of compassion and understanding, just be quiet. You do not yourself, nor your board members any favors.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


The point is moot as I was referring to them being suiciders not causing suicide...the point is they are in fact, poisoning us in our food and leeching poisons into the air and water we drink...they are in fact killing everybody and I for one, would not miss them if they started taking themselves out of the equation. People like Monsanto, for instance.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

The point is moot as I was referring to them being suiciders not causing suicide...the point is they are in fact, poisoning us in our food and leeching poisons into the air and water we drink...they are in fact killing everybody and I for one, would not miss them if they started taking themselves out of the equation. People like Monsanto, for instance.

We could all argue that if X, Y and Z people removed themselves from the planet our lives would be better but the rest of what you put sounds rather holier than thou! We all live different lives and have different problems which we deal with in different ways. Maybe if you weren't around some of us would live a better life?

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by CaticusMaximus

 

The point is moot as I was referring to them being suiciders not causing suicide...the point is they are in fact, poisoning us in our food and leeching poisons into the air and water we drink...they are in fact killing everybody and I for one, would not miss them if they started taking themselves out of the equation. People like Monsanto, for instance.

And as it works...... maybe if I took my life now you're life would be better!

reply to post by ldyserenity


Oh, I understood what you were saying, definitely. I was referring to those who call the average joe who kills themselves under soul crushing conditions, ahem, "cowardly", "selfish", and "stupid". Its infuriating seeing the arrogance and false pride oozing out of posts like those, and I had to respond to them.

Compassion and understanding is what will heal this broken world; NOT haughty snobbery and derision towards those some people obviously see as "less than" themselves.

Honestly, they should be embarrassed by their words.

reply to post by Hefficide

Suicide is not a rational act and, I would assume, is undertaken by most people during what one could deem as a psychotic break.

This is a very limited view, even archaic. There are many people that succumb to despair but if you examine the causality it ultimately rests with society, since some suicides are motivated by shame or despair I grant you that point, but not all fall into that slot. There are militancy suicides (like the Quakers that immolated themselves against the Vietnam war, of priest in Tibet etc) There are military suicides while performing their duty, that is a decision to sacrifice oneself for other, this goes into civilian live and other types of corporations police and fireman for instance. Then there are the suicides of faith, and many types, like euthanasia and assisted suicide etc...

I assume that only the civilian suicides have been counted on the study, and they are probably referring to the legal term of suicide, that covers many of the above situations.

reply to post by Panic2k11


I agree to an extent and with a caveat.

My post addressed, I guess, a specific type of behavior. A soldier throwing himself onto a grenade to save his friends, obviously, is much different than what I addressed. There are deliberate forms of self sacrifice that can have very valiant motives, cultural motives, religious motives, etc.

In general, however, most suicides are emotion based and, therefore, do qualify as irrational acts. Divorce is an example of loss leading to overpowering despair, leading to something of a short circuit that brings a person to a moment where clarity fails and the pain overwhelms. Bankruptcy, loss of employment, bereavement, all share this quality.

So my post did tend to speak to a specific side street of the issue - and not the issue as a whole.

~Heff

Originally posted by trysts

Originally posted by elrem48

Originally posted by trysts

Originally posted by elrem48
reply to post by silent thunder

 

Sadly, overdosing on pills is probably the easiest way out. .

Overdosing on pills is probably one of the more unreliable ways to kill yourself, elrem48

You are absolutely correct. However, I believe that goes for a few other methods also. I do think that people may view pills as one of the least painful ways to commit this sorrowful act.

True. People may wake up from their attempted suicide with some physical problems because of being misinformed about the pill-thing.

My heart goes out to those who wish to end their life. In many cases it is quite sorrowful. But, I would never condemn them for wanting to do so. It is their life afterall, and suicide is a very difficult decision. Overall, I respect the decision.

I too respect a person's decision, although I cannot imagine being able to respect a family member's decision to do so. I believe that would change the ball game. No matter, to label a person a "coward, or selfish," is nothing more than a label.
Suicide is man's way of telling God, "You can't fire me - I quit." ~Bill Maher, on Politically Incorrect, 1995

reply to post by Hefficide

In general, however, most suicides are emotion based and, therefore, do qualify as irrational acts.

I strongly disagree with this notion, it is not general (and it would be extremely hard to prove as such as to my understanding a very limited set of statistics is made and often suicides pass as accidental deaths). The other point I disagree is that you define emotions as being by default irrational...

This just happened yesterday. The mother was convicted of welfare fraud and due for trial. She committed suicide just after drowning(still up in the air as to how she murdered them) her two children. The husband claimed to be at a bar. The father stated he did not want to be near the residence anymore, free as a bird, no questions asked. This story has odd written all over it and whats worse is two children are dead because of brain-dead parents.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

reply to post by beezzer

Are we seeing the result of a generation with poor decision-making abilities?

Beez, I have no idea to which "generation" you claim membership....

but this is a wildly unfair statement.

In my opinion, the death of hope that "the American dream" can still be realized is the cause of this. Those who invested in the stock market with rose-colored glasses, and put everything they had into its grimy, slimy hands, are surely beyond disappointed.

That does NOT mean that those of us born in the 40s and 50s are all "poor decision makers". I hope you are willing to retract that statement. There are no fewer "yuppies" now than there were 20 years ago.

reply to post by seagull


I'm with you I do not see shame as a valid reason to suicide, but I recognize that others may. I also recognize that despair at times may seem so overwhelming and painful that some would seek a quick exit, but it is ultimately temporary, and so like the first I have no respect for those that exit life on simply these motives, even if I can understand how they come to that decision.

I personally see it as a lack of strength of character a result of a fragile mind and is the result of a larger social problem. Indigenous people after contact with other cultures imposes drastic changes on lifestyle tend to have an increase in suicide rates.

I see this report as indication of a similar pattern as people life-goals and hopes are being destroyed and they have no control over the process.

Unfortunately i'm not surprised,we are very much a confined species in an open cage, that has rapidly become polluted, overcrowded,overworked,burried in debt,over-prescribed,de-moralized,and flat out lied to.

We are all capable of more than this,once we understand..there will be no mistaking the power we have together,we are strong enough to handle the truth,the brief time we have here belongs to us,we are apart of our environment what happens to it happens to us,a change starts from within,free your mind..free your life
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Panic2k11

Over 90 percent of people who die by suicide have a mental illness at the time of their death.

And the most common mental illness is depression.

Untreated depression is the number one cause for suicide.

Untreated mental illness (including depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and others) is the cause for the vast majority of suicides.

Also, some people are genetically predisposed to depression, and thus they may not appear to be undergoing any negative life experiences, yet still become depressed, and may die by suicide.

So, some people die by suicide because of a depression that was caused by genetics. You probably have heard about some indivuduals who died by suicide and did not exhibit any symptoms or appear to have any serious problems. In these cases, it is possible that the person had depression that occured because of this genetic factor.

It is very rare that someone dies by suicide because of one cause. Thus, there are usually several causes, and not just one, for suicide.

Many people die by suicide because depression is triggered by several negative life experiences, and the person does not receive treatment – or does not receive effective treatment – for the depression. (Some people need to go through several treatments until they find one that works for them.)

Source

Beyond the above the article goes on to list quite a few specific events which can trigger a suicidal state. I did not paste those here, as doing so would violate T&C based DMCA issues.

In addition, from the National Institute of Mental Health:

What are the risk factors for suicide?
Research shows that risk factors for suicide include:
depression and other mental disorders, or a substance-abuse disorder (often in combination with other mental disorders). More than 90 percent of people who die by suicide have these risk factors.
prior suicide attempt
family history of mental disorder or substance abuse
family history of suicide
family violence, including physical or sexual abuse
firearms in the home, the method used in more than half of suicides
incarceration
exposure to the suicidal behavior of others, such as family members, peers, or media figures.
However, suicide and suicidal behavior are not normal responses to stress; many people have these risk factors, but are not suicidal. Research also shows that the risk for suicide is associated with changes in brain chemicals called neurotransmitters, including serotonin. Decreased levels of serotonin have been found in people with depression, impulsive disorders, and a history of suicide attempts, and in the brains of suicide victims.

What are some risk factors for nonfatal suicide attempts?
As noted, an estimated 11 nonfatal suicide attempts occur per every suicide death. Men and the elderly are more likely to have fatal attempts than are women and youth.
Risk factors for nonfatal suicide attempts by adults include depression and other mental disorders, alcohol and other substance abuse and separation or divorce.
Risk factors for attempted suicide by youth include depression, alcohol or other drug-use disorder, physical or sexual abuse, and disruptive behavior.
Most suicide attempts are expressions of extreme distress, not harmless bids for attention. A person who appears suicidal should not be left alone and needs immediate mental-health treatment.

Accepting the genetic and mental health aspects as givens - then we are left to address triggers for suicide - which are very specifically emotional in nature.

And emotions, by definition, are irrational. They exist, largely, specifically as a mechanism to override biological imperatives and our more primal natures.

~Heff

reply to post by silent thunder


I anticipated this and wondered why it wasn't happening sooner, or maybe it has been and we didn't know it. It's a sad time to be alive. I'm thinking about the occupy movement which simply wants to put an end to slavery. Rather than doing something about it to fix the problem, obama passes a law that prohibits people from protesting, very sad indeed. It just goes to show you that he who has all the money wins again, and has the power to keep the game from changing.

IMO anytime a society pays someone just enough money for that person to barely live, there is something wrong with that system. We always have the attituide that its ok because the ultimate decision is always left up to us and we don't have to accept that job if we don't want to. The problem here is that it's in our blood to always try and we have this notion that something is always better than nothing, which is the same way wage standards are passed down as well.

There is something wrong with our society, I don't think its fair that someone can go to work for a major corporation and help that company earn millions of dollars while the employee has to be left with figuring out how they are going to budget their health costs and pay off thousands of dollars in health bills. It's almost like the employer is telling you upfront that you aren't even worth the very cost of your own medical bills or education costs.

Granted part of the problem is the fact that the person accepted the job at the wage agreed, but its not their fault they didn't take all this into account. I love the new tax act passed against people that earn over $200,000 a year where they are required to carry their own health insurance or get dinged on their taxes. I have no sorrow because when you make over $200,000 a year, you can afford your own health insurance anyhow.

reply to post by itsthetooth


And the tax code, at least here in Canada,makes it undesirable economically to be middle class because of the ammount taxable on earnings,seems there is a direct attempt by government to keep us poor..
The system is rigged and there is no way of truly winning or getting ahead without winning the lottery or applying some creative thinking.
Your money or your life..some people choose there life.
Have to re-focus whats important and live within your means,we don't need the newest gadgets or fancy clothes to be happy,better to have no money than to owe money, can't buy time so..spend it wisely

Imho it speaks volumes about our values as a society that we would even consider money or the lack of it as something to die over. For some the public humiliation of being unable to support their families is more than they can bear. We have failed our loved ones if they believe in the dark times we would blame them into the grave, what is wrong with us???? For the most part it is not the fault of the individual, so much as circumstances. Must we ever chase materialism as the solution to being happy and successful? Can we please have some new definitions?

reply to post by Iamschist


We have been caught-up in the web of our own design.We are a species on the decline
Extra terrestrials would consider us hostile, a virus..a disease to the planet as weve caused more damage (in a very short ammount of time) than all living creatures combined living and extinct.
Humans are beautifull,artistic,creative,insightfull animals,but self destructive and definatley not the most intelligent