Suicide, Not Car Crashes, #1 Cause of Injury Death in US, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 14 times

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 08:14 PM by JiggyPotamus

Although one has to blame those who choose suicide over other options for the act, we cannot ignore the hand that the government, mainly Congress and the president, have played in pushing these people to their decision. The banks also. I would bet many of these people are not mentally disturbed, or sick, but rather are in impossible situations. And these situations are sometimes caused by politics. I just wanted to point that out...That some blame does lie with the government, among other people. Simply saying that fault lies only with the person is ignorant. If that were the case, then why are so many of these suicides seen among US soldiers who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan? So how should the blame be divided?

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 09:36 PM by OutonaLimb

To all those poor and brave people. Give us living strength.

I am sure you fret no more.

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 09:57 PM by attachmentzombiesurvival

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

Personally, I really do believe mental illness has a ton to do with it. Probably undiagnosed mental illness much of the time. That is not to say that outside factors (the economy, relationships, war, and other traumatic experiences) don't have alot to do with it, but, I believe mental illness is the foundation it all builds upon to eventually become too much. I don't blame those that suicide. It's an end result they have no control over, like a cancer patient who will inevitably die, the mental illness will kill them. I believe it ignorant (and that's not an insult) to believe otherwise. If you are looking for an answer where blame lies, I would have to blame all of us. We all can do better than what we are doing. If you want to make a difference, then make a difference. In your life and those around you. Do whatever you can to make this a better world. I think too many are complacent and don't do enough. Myself included.

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 10:00 PM by Hefficide

reply to post by attachmentzombiesurvival

There is another thread discussing this same issue, from a slightly different slant, and I posted some very specific information here that addresses your post here.

~Heff

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 10:12 PM by attachmentzombiesurvival

reply to post by Hefficide

Thank you for sharing. I had already read both of those articles. Like I said, the universe gave me no choice except to be an expert. Anyone that is having difficulties with the loss of a loved one to suicide or is considering suicide, I believe reading the links Heff provided could be helpful to understand what is happening to you. This is the hardest thing I have ever experienced. Take it serious. Get all the help and support you can if you end up a survivor or are considering suicide. You would not believe how many lives are ruined when one person kills themselves. My father died 36 years ago and my best friend 21 years ago. There are still times that I feel the emotions and loss over them. It changes lives. And not for the better.

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 12:08 AM by TheToastmanCometh

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 12:14 AM by Hefficide

reply to post by TheToastmanCometh

Being dead serious here man, if all else fails, think about this one thought "If you give up - then they win". I know it's a crappy rope to grasp in a dark period, But I swear to you, in my darkest hour, that one angry thought is what kept me fighting to hold on.

If you ever want to discuss these things, my inbox is always open.

~Heff

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 05:44 AM by Em2013

I know a few people that have been depressed for no reason at all and want to kill themselves. It's hard to the the one that prevents it from happening from after time and see your friends in pain. After many tests and drugs introduced, doctors don't know why they feel that way. Drugs also had a 0% success rate but rather increased their depression immediately. It's scary stuff.

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 07:08 AM by Pinke

Originally posted by loam
The top five leading causes of injury-related deaths were:

Suicide
Motor vehicle crashes
Poisoning
Falls
Homicide

Researchers say the findings demonstrate that suicide is now a global public health issue.

Source

I think this article isn't neccessarily as bad or as depressing as it looks.

For starters, in America the death rate from suicide has hovered around the same areas per 100, 000 for decades. The male rate has always been massively higher. In 1990 for example it reached a massive 20.4 but it evens out when you look at the suicide rate of women at around 5. 2008 it was recorded at around 19 for men and 4.9 for women. Traffic sitting at around 12 ... there isn't that much difference between these figures with genderless suicide being 12.5! To give an idea of comparison ... Traffic was at 15.5 in 1999 according to GECD Health Data 2002. Suicide was sitting at 17.1 for men and 4 for women in 2000, 19.8 and 4.4 in 1995.

Suicide is such a fluctuating figure. 19.8 in 1995 for men becomes around 17.1 and 17.7 in 2000 and 2005 respectively. Suicide rates also hike with aging population for persons over 65 in the U.S. That '15%' from the article is only a 3.06 raise even using the most bold number of 20.4 as the starting block. The US has hit 17.7 in 1950 and 19.9 (for men 12.3 genderless) in 1985 according to the world health organisation.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that 32,310 people died last year in traffic accidents, the lowest number since 1949.

Source

“Comprehensive and sustained traffic safety measures have apparently substantially diminished the motor vehicle traffic mortality rate, and similar attention and resources are needed to reduce the burden of other injury,”

Source

I bolded the bit that makes me think there is somewhat of an agenda here. Am not saying it's 100% bad but we have to accept a number of issues here:

Injury based death is the criteria ... suicide barely managed to creepy into the top 10 when other factors such as heart disease are allowed on the field
The conclusion of the study seems to be recommending funds/resources from traffic move to depression. It
The researcher also suggests that poisons, falls etc ... could also be suicides. A suggested figure is 20% of those may be misclassified suicides ...
Is it relevant to compare these two statistics?

Accord to this graph suicide isn't so bad: Link

You could certainly see that snatching a five or ten year period might make a trend look a certain way, but there are so many factors causing each trend such as age, global economy, access to firearms, police investigation methods, recent solar flares, reruns of M*A*S*H ... I'm not tryin to make the topic trivial but a 2000 - 2009 study declaring a 15% increase seems quite narrow no? Especially when, in the short term, banning firearms alone actually lowers suicide rates. In micro cases, something as simple as a railing on a foot bridge actually causes less suicides in some areas.

This is all being reported on the back of a $56 million dollar suicide prevention plan Link claiming that they are 'shocking' statistics. Yes, in a very short time they are a little shocking. They're certainly not good statistics. I'm not even neccessarily saying spending the money in this area is bad ... but I do think there is an agenda and a half, and it's a very safe political bet.

Consider this ... with such a fluctuating/hard to report on statistic, it's going to be easy to declare 'victory' on this issue when next year we drop from whatever number we're at down to a few points less. It's then blamed on the new prevention program rather than a fluctuation that is always occurring.

I will point out that some stats claim 18.9 during the wall street crash, and I have had to slap this together really quickly but ... I think aging population among other factors is as much to do with anything else. I don't think it's all doom and gloom, I do think it's important, and I do think the rate has gone up over time in general (not over 10 years). I'm not sure the comparison of road deaths to suicides is valid, and I do think it's a method to pull money out of that pile and put it in the new suicide prevention pile.

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 07:33 AM by loam

reply to post by TheToastmanCometh

Originally posted by TheToastmanCometh
...but do people understand that sometimes depressives just want to be left alone for a while?

I think I may.

Except it seems to me what you're likely wanting is a break from how you think about yourself.

Life isn't a bowl of cherries for anyone. We all suffer from insecurities and self-doubt and from feelings we are insufficiently loved because we think we don't deserve to be. I don't care what anyone says. These are universal truths for nearly everyone-- even the 1%'ers.

It's just that most have strategies to not let these thoughts sink them.

Depression is a very serious matter. It isn't easy to fix. But there are things that you can try that might help.

If you ever need anyone to talk to, U2U me-- even if you just want to chat about the weather.

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 08:08 AM by 200Plus

As a soldier (retired) I understand why the rates among troops are so high. It can be summed up in one word: GUILT.

Now before everyone says "they should feel guilty" or "they deserve it", let me explain.

It's not a guilt from our actions (although some are for this reason I am sure), but rather our inactions that leave us with suicide as an option. Three things nag on a combat veteran constantly. Woul, could, and should. IF plays a large role in returning soldiers' lives. What could we have done differently to change the outcome of a traumatic event. Two stick out in my mind daily,

I was an infantry team leader and I was tasked with training a new squad leader. I trained him and helped him for four months. One day he said his head wasn't in the game and asked me to switch trucks with him and lead our patrol back into base. As we were returning a large IED went off above his truck (where I SHOULD have been), killing him instantly. I COULD have said no to his request, I SHOULD have seen the IED, I WOULD change spots with him in an instant.

I had a soilder that got burned out after 10 months in country. He came to me and said he couldn't do the job any more and asked for a transfer. By that time I had already lost five men from my twelve man squad. I told him I would make him a driver and he would be safer there and not have to deal with the breaches. Five days later as we were taking a break and discussing our next patrol, he was shot and killed. I SHOULD have taken him off the team, I COULD have made a better choice, I WOULD trade places with him in an instant.

COULD, WOULD, and SHOULD are there largest ciontributing factors to the rise in soldier suicides. All three lead to guilt and that leads down the path with only suicide as an option. I fight the urge every day and will continue to fight it. I look for every reason I can not to do it. From what it would do to my family, to what kind of mess it would leave in my house. Silly I know but it is what it is.

Financial issues play the largest part in civilian suicides I would have to guess.

The world around us is falling apart. Social networks are less available, money is tight, violence is on the upswing. It doesn't shock me in the least to see that suicides are growing in numbers. And I agree with everyone here that says "it will only get worse".

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 08:10 AM by Pinke

reply to post by Pinke

Just won't to clarify in my previous post where I've been using male stats ...

The 18.9 from the great depression I believe is both genders. I don't believe we've reached that high for quite some time. The 20.4 number is male only to give an idea of how big a gap that is ...

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 08:33 AM by openyourmind1262

Sad, statistics indeed. I dealt with the suicide of my 13 yr old next door neighbor, back in June. It had a profound impact in our community. Talking with a counselor about it, he made me realise this is a growing trend, Man I hate that word 'trend"

Things need to change. I volunteer now, I speak with folks like me who have been around someone who "opted out" IMHO, One of the first thing we could do is simple. Ban the word "suicide" in any song lyrics. I know that sounds bad but I hate to hear that word being sang. In any form.

edit on 24-9-2012 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 09:56 AM by votan

reply to post by loam

I was lead to believe that guns were leading the cause of injury and death in the USA.

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:12 PM by Munku

It's not car crashes, suicide, heart attack, or even cancer that is the number one killer world wide--it's life

Granted, suicide is a preventable issue and MUST...I do mean MUST...be addressed.

Who knows how many Nobel Peace/Science prize-winners we have lost because of this.

reply posted on 26-9-2012 @ 03:48 AM by Dr Expired

Originally posted by 200Plus
As a soldier (retired) I understand why the rates among troops are so high. It can be summed up in one word: GUILT.

Now before everyone says "they should feel guilty" or "they deserve it", let me explain.

It's not a guilt from our actions (although some are for this reason I am sure), but rather our inactions that leave us with suicide as an option. Three things nag on a combat veteran constantly. Woul, could, and should. IF plays a large role in returning soldiers' lives. What could we have done differently to change the outcome of a traumatic event. Two stick out in my mind daily,

I was an infantry team leader and I was tasked with training a new squad leader. I trained him and helped him for four months. One day he said his head wasn't in the game and asked me to switch trucks with him and lead our patrol back into base. As we were returning a large IED went off above his truck (where I SHOULD have been), killing him instantly. I COULD have said no to his request, I SHOULD have seen the IED, I WOULD change spots with him in an instant.

I had a soilder that got burned out after 10 months in country. He came to me and said he couldn't do the job any more and asked for a transfer. By that time I had already lost five men from my twelve man squad. I told him I would make him a driver and he would be safer there and not have to deal with the breaches. Five days later as we were taking a break and discussing our next patrol, he was shot and killed. I SHOULD have taken him off the team, I COULD have made a better choice, I WOULD trade places with him in an instant.

COULD, WOULD, and SHOULD are there largest ciontributing factors to the rise in soldier suicides. All three lead to guilt and that leads down the path with only suicide as an option. I fight the urge every day and will continue to fight it. I look for every reason I can not to do it. From what it would do to my family, to what kind of mess it would leave in my house. Silly I know but it is what it is.

Financial issues play the largest part in civilian suicides I would have to guess.

The world around us is falling apart. Social networks are less available, money is tight, violence is on the upswing. It doesn't shock me in the least to see that suicides are growing in numbers. And I agree with everyone here that says "it will only get worse".

You are and were a human being of such short years , as you get older you know how short life is?

Do not uneccesarily darken your life , because of things ,under pressure you feel you could have done better.
Your goal now perhaps? is to make the best decisions for your family and you, based on what you now know, but perhaps didn't know then.
There is not one human being who has not done wrong, not one.

You can love , from this moment on forever, don't let mistakes real or imagined kill your heart.
Let go, and move on.
Actions, inactions, it takes the true courage of a true warrior ,to lose ,then pick up from the ashes... ones soul?,

edit on 26-9-2012 by Dr Expired because: spelling

reply posted on 26-9-2012 @ 06:19 AM by Pervius

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by loam

I was lead to believe that guns were leading the cause of injury and death in the USA.

Not by a long shot. Human hands do more killing in America than guns.

These suicides in America are really going up. Last year two of America's military veterans killed themselves by burning themselves alive. There may be more...I just remember reading stories of 2.

If you can't own a tiny piece of your own country to call home....time to check out. Nobody cares.

All these new US citizens is where they are throwing the money at right now because America needs new DNA.......to fix the problem America has right now. Our DNA was destroyed by the prior Generations.

reply posted on 29-9-2012 @ 06:02 PM by TheToastmanCometh

reply to post by Hefficide

Thanks Heff...I'll take you up on that sometimes.

reply posted on 29-9-2012 @ 06:12 PM by TheToastmanCometh

reply to post by loam

What I was trying to get at was when I'm in a dark mood, I just tell people about it so they know not to bother me. Not latch on like flies to a fresh turd telling me to cheer up or try to look on the bright side of life. But it never fails that I get a few brave people to try to be my knight in shining armour and think they're doing good by trying to save me, when I just want to be a wreck.

Eventually I come around, though that might be bad because then I get too over excited. Like...today I had a wonderful dream about meeting Jeremy Renner and my happiness got so much I wanted to rip the skin off my arms.
I don't really know how to put it in perspective for sane people, to be honest about what really goes on with destructive/suicidal thoughts. Like for me they come and go.

reply posted on 1-10-2012 @ 08:48 PM by HiGilgamesh

Originally posted by plutoxgirl
reply to post by loam

My country (Uruguay) is the one with the biggest rate of suicide in South America.
Its interesting considering the population of it its only 3 million and something.

They say the cause for most is some kind of psychological disorder. Interesting. So are we all depressive lunatics? :p

The most used way is hanging, 2nd comes self-shot.

S&F

Humans on earth have been given false teachings about life, death and spirit, religion takes our powers

This is the Truth that makes your spirit strong, fearless and enlightened
www.futureofmankind.co.uk...

We are in this world too learn, if we kill our-self we didnt learn so repeat the life again, its pointless killing ones self

the spirit is eternal

we learn from bad as much as from good

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