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Originally posted by WhoDat09
reply to post by Trublbrwing
So then how would we know if they found or saw anything? I don't think they'll release anything about it even if they do.
Also I wouldn't think that finding a huge rogue planet somewhere in our solar system would require very sophisticated equipment, if it is coming right at us .....surely someone with a telescope somewhere in the world would have seen it by now? or am I wrong?
Originally posted by winofiend
Originally posted by Trublbrwing
They aren't looking to mine the Moon, they're trying to find out exactly how the Moon influences Earth's gravity.
The world seems bigger and scarier when people who do not understand things, attempt to attribute mundane knowledge to complex ideas.
Believe it or not, but there is a form of Maths that calculate things like how two gravitational bodies will act on each other. They don't need to actually send things to the moon to measure the gravity. Or work out how it happens. Or even test it. Considering Gravity is a uniform force..
What is more important to a budget? "Hey everyone, we've tested the gravity and it *IS* true. It exists. can I have a few more billion dollars now?" or "Hey everyone, we've done it - He3 in sufficient quantities to justify a continued and expanded budget for the next 50 years."
Yeah, not so much the gravity I believe. But monopolise a spanking new clean energy market? Ehhe..
Originally posted by Ghezuz
I am ready to follow you in this thread, but first I would like for you to show me any data, orbital changes or statistic demonstrating that the premise of your thread is correct.
The premise being that the earth's gravitational orbit has been altered in any way by an object in space that we have not detected.
Originally posted by Trublbrwing
Originally posted by WhoDat09
reply to post by Trublbrwing
So then how would we know if they found or saw anything? I don't think they'll release anything about it even if they do.
Also I wouldn't think that finding a huge rogue planet somewhere in our solar system would require very sophisticated equipment, if it is coming right at us .....surely someone with a telescope somewhere in the world would have seen it by now? or am I wrong?
Almost every telescope in private hands uses the same principle, they see only the objects that reflect or generate light. An object or mass with no luminosity or reflective properties would be virtually invisible from Earth. Radio telescopes and those with infrared adaptive optics can see more but their use is controlled.
Originally posted by nothingwrong
reply to post by Trublbrwing
A few issues with your opening post:
The moon does not have a dipolar electromagnetic field like the earth does.
The melting ice caps will indeed have a small effect on the rotation of the earth about it's axis, but so far this is negligible, not even enough of a change to measure. It would have no affect on the earths gravity, as obviously the overall mass of the earth will not change, just have miniscule alterations in it's distribution.
Any object which was close enough to our solar system to have an effect on the Earth/Moon/Sun relationship would be close enough to effect Mercury, Venus and Mars too. (Mercury and Venus being between us and the sun as you will know)
Any Earth/Moon/Sun changes would cause noticeable tidal changes, and weather pattern changes.
Now, I am not saying that none of the above issues are occurring, but for your opening post to be believable, you would need to include links to evidence that they are. I have had a quick scout about on the internet and can't find any evidence to back you up, but will happily read anything you can provide for me, I am fascinated by this topic.
Originally posted by Trublbrwing
Originally posted by Ghezuz
I am ready to follow you in this thread, but first I would like for you to show me any data, orbital changes or statistic demonstrating that the premise of your thread is correct.
The premise being that the earth's gravitational orbit has been altered in any way by an object in space that we have not detected.
As promised...........
arxiv.org...
miur.academia.edu...
meetings.copernicus.org...
labs.adsabs.harvard.edu...
Inci- dentally, let us note that our results rule out the possibility that the hypoth- esized Nemesis can be the Sun-like object X that may be responsible of the anomalous perihelion precessions of Saturn, also because, at approximately just 10 kau from us, its orbital period would amount to 1-10 Myr, contrary to the 26 Myr periodicity in extinction rates on the Earth over the last 250 Myr which motivated the Nemesis proposal. Moreover, our Sun-sized body X would not penetrate the Oort cloud which is believed to extend from 50 10 kau to 150 kau.
Anyway, further data analyses of enlarged radio-ranging datasets from Cassini by different teams of astronomers are required to confirm the ex- istence of the anomalous perihelion precession of Saturn as a real physical effect needing explanation.
Actually, the expectations concerning X are doomed to fade away.
Indeed, along-term harmonic modulationis introduced in ˙ e bythe presence of the time-varying ω and Ω in eq. (15), contrary to the linearly increasing trend actually measured in eq.(1)
Moreover, it turns out [Iorio 2011a] that K X = 4 . 46 × 10 − 24 s − 2 (16) would agree with eq.(1), as far as the order of magnitude is concerned.
But, eq. (16) istotally unacceptable since it corresponds to distances of X as absurdly small as d X = 30 au for a terrestrial body, and d X = 200 au for a Jovian mass.
n 2011, papers reanalyzing the thermal radiation pressure forces inherent in the spacecraft showed that a careful accounting of this could account for the entire anomaly, and thus the cause was mundane and did not point to any new phenomena or need for a different physical paradigm.[2][3] The most detailed analysis to date, by some of the original investigators, explicitly looks at two methods of estimating thermal forces, then states "We find no statistically significant difference between the two estimates and conclude that once the thermal recoil force is properly accounted for, no anomalous acceleration remains."
Originally posted by eriktheawful
Also, by the way:
The Pioneer Anomaly that you mentioned, and then linked to in that last link of yours, this one here, "The Outer Planets Of Our Solar System And The Pioneer Anomaly" (also by L. Iorio...), was published in 2006.
Let me bring you up to speed:
n 2011, papers reanalyzing the thermal radiation pressure forces inherent in the spacecraft showed that a careful accounting of this could account for the entire anomaly, and thus the cause was mundane and did not point to any new phenomena or need for a different physical paradigm.[2][3] The most detailed analysis to date, by some of the original investigators, explicitly looks at two methods of estimating thermal forces, then states "We find no statistically significant difference between the two estimates and conclude that once the thermal recoil force is properly accounted for, no anomalous acceleration remains."
Originally posted by Trublbrwing
Originally posted by eriktheawful
Also, by the way:
The Pioneer Anomaly that you mentioned, and then linked to in that last link of yours, this one here, "The Outer Planets Of Our Solar System And The Pioneer Anomaly" (also by L. Iorio...), was published in 2006.
Let me bring you up to speed:
n 2011, papers reanalyzing the thermal radiation pressure forces inherent in the spacecraft showed that a careful accounting of this could account for the entire anomaly, and thus the cause was mundane and did not point to any new phenomena or need for a different physical paradigm.[2][3] The most detailed analysis to date, by some of the original investigators, explicitly looks at two methods of estimating thermal forces, then states "We find no statistically significant difference between the two estimates and conclude that once the thermal recoil force is properly accounted for, no anomalous acceleration remains."
I believe that quote is from a paper titled "Conformal Cosmology and the Pioneer Anomaly" by Gabriele Varieschi.
In the third portion he admits to holes in his own theory "This could be a serious problem for our model" which relies on a localized "blueshift region" which has not been proven.
I am familiar with the paper and frankly this is another case of monte carlo data forced to fit the problem.
^ a b Slava G. Turyshev, Viktor T. Toth, Gary Kinsella, Siu-Chun Lee, Shing M. Lok, Jordan Ellis (11 April 2012). "Support for the thermal origin of the Pioneer anomaly". arXiv:1204.2507. Published in: Turyshev, S.; Toth, V.; Kinsella, G.; Lee, S. C.; Lok, S.; Ellis, J. (2012). "Support for the Thermal Origin of the Pioneer Anomaly". Physical Review Letters 108 (24). arXiv:1204.2507. doi:10.1103/PhysRevLett.108.24110