Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Obama Ad: 'How Can Mitt Romney Take On The Cheaters' In China?

page: 1
5

log in

join

posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 07:25 PM
link   
So the latest attack ad by the Obama campaign focuses on China and the tire trade. Here are some of the claims in the ad.

1. When a flood of Chinese tires threatened a thousand American jobs, it was President Obama who stood up to China and protected American workers.

2. The ad attributes this quote to Romney from his book - No Apology: the Case for American Greatness
"President Obama's action to defend American tire companies from foreign competition... is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers."

The result is that Obama is claiming he saved jobs, Romney is weak on China, Romney does not care about protecting US interests or US companies from foreign competition, and that America is better with Obama than Romney.

Let's look at the first part of the ad.

When a flood of Chinese tires threatened a thousand American jobs, it was President Obama who stood up to China and protected American workers.

Did Obama really save a thousand jobs? The answer, is simply no. The tires imported from China were low cost tires the US no longer produces simply because they can't.

The tariffs didn't have any material impact on our North American business," says Keith Price, a spokesman for Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., GT -4.86%echoing a sentiment expressed by some other manufacturers. "The stuff coming in from China is primarily low end. We got out of that market years go."

Get-Tough Policy on Chinese Tires Falls Flat
Did Obama's policy reduce the amount of tires imported?

Chinese imports were way down last year, by 12% compared to 2010. However, overall consumer tire imports were up anyway, as other low-cost countries picked up the slack. In addition, tire plant capacity in the U.S. is down since the tariffs went into effect.

www.moderntiredealer.com...
So what we have is fewer tires from China, but more imports and fewer domestic tires after Obama supposedly saved the US tire industry. How does lower production equate to more jobs? Has it helped the economy?

So far as saving American jobs, it just isn't working," says Roy Littlefield of the Tire Industry Association, which has 6,000 members. "And it really hurt a lot of people in the industry—smaller businesses that geared up to bring these tires in from China."

Get-Tough Policy on Chinese Tires Falls Flat
So we have Obama claiming to be a savior of the economy. We have industry experts claiming Obama's policy has hurt the economy. Obama has not saved jobs, he shifted imports from China to other countries, and the overall amount of imports has gone up, while small businesses who were geared towards these Chinese tires took a hard hit.

So the economy wasn't helped, how about the consumer?

"This is a China tire, it costs me $69 today," says the owner of Cybert Tire & Car Care in New York City. "Before it cost $39." A big part of that increase: The fat tariff the U.S. has placed on Chinese tires.

"It all gets passed to the customer," says Mr. Everett.

So no, the consumer was not helped either, in fact, consumers now have to pay more for the same tire. China isn't paying the fee, the consumer is. American citizens, the middle class Obama pretends to love so much, now have to spend more for the same quality of life.

Wholesalers, he said, used the cover of the tariff to raise prices across the board. Bob Ulrich, editor of Modern Tire Dealer, a trade publication, says prices are up 29% in the replacement market since 2009


Now let's deal with the second part of the ad, Romneys quote.

President Obama's action to defend American tire companies from foreign competition... is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers.

This is what is attributed to him. Now I notice the ... which means something is missing. I wonder what it could be. Well here is the actual full quote Romney made.

“President Obama’s action to defend American tire companies from foreign competition may make good politics by repaying unions for their support of his campaign, but it is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers. Protectionism stifles productivity."

Wow, kind of changes the entire meaning of the quote when you fill in the missing context. Is there any evidence the unions benefited as Romney suggested?

Several manufacturers in the U.S. have factories in China and elsewhere and export from them. Partly for that reason, the Rubber Manufacturers Association has avoided taking a position on the tariff.

Well if they didn't file the complaint who did?

the complaint against China was filed by the United Steelworkers union

So the Steelworkers Union is concerned about tires now?

Dissenters on the commission said that the imports from China were primarily lower-cost tires, and that U.S. manufacturers have tended to focus their production on higher-profit premium tires. But the Steelworkers have maintained that China sells into all sectors of the passenger tire market and that a tariff has broad benefit.

In what was criticized at the time as a favor to union supporters, President Barack Obama sided with the majority on the ITC, concluding there was industry disruption. China later lost its appeal of the tire tariff to the WTO.

Get-Tough Policy on Chinese Tires Falls Flat
So we have Romney claiming the unions benfited, and US workers and consumers paid the price. The facts all support Romney's position. Obama's failed policy raised prices to the consumers, cause a tit for tat trade war with China, lowered US tire production, and increased the amount of total imports.

Obama and the Unions: 1
US jobs and consumers: 0

online.wsj.com...
www.moderntiredealer.com...
www.moderntiredealer.com...
www.forbes.com...
edit on 22-9-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 08:05 PM
link   
Are you really being serious with this? Seems like pure desperation a distraction at best.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 08:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Are you really being serious with this? Seems like pure desperation a distraction at best.


Way to contribute. So what in my post do you take issue with? Please cite facts and sources not opinions.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 08:35 PM
link   
I am glad their are fewer Chinese tires... They blow out easier than most, raise insurance premiums and
kill people.

You analysis assumes that Obama's Chinese tire tariffs are what have reduce domestic tires sales,
however you did not substantiate that assumption, you expect us to believe you.

Protecting American jobs IS a good thing, American Union members are in fact AMERICANS,
so are the executives of those companies.

I think America should charge tariffs, especially when countries do it to us.

Romney does not think Union members are humans or Americans, that is because Romney is a grown
up spoilt rich boy who has no idea what a gallon of milk costs.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 08:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by campanionator
I am glad their are fewer Chinese tires... They blow out easier than most, raise insurance premiums and
kill people.

Great show me evidence the tires imported from other countries are better? You do realize the number of cheap imort tires has gone UP, as I quoted. So far your anylysis points to an increased road hazard due to Obama's policy, thank you for pointing that out.


You analysis assumes that Obama's Chinese tire tariffs are what have reduce domestic tires sales,
however you did not substantiate that assumption, you expect us to believe you.

Actually I don't have to. My claim is that Obama lied about his saving thousands of jobs. I DID substantiate that with my post. Domestic production went down post tariff. For the sake of argument we can assume the tariff had a net zero effect. That still means Obama's ad is 100% wrong and he flat out lied, which is the conclusion I make in my post. I never stated the tariff is the direct cause, only what the results are.


Protecting American jobs IS a good thing, American Union members are in fact AMERICANS,
so are the executives of those companies.

I agree, protecting American jobs is a good thing. Romney agrees too, his quote that was mangled states that is his goal and that Obama is not doing it. Romney says that Obama HURT American jobs to help unions. So the overall US situation is negatively impacted while a SMALL special interest group is benefited. I substantiated in my post INDUSTRY EXPERTS claim Obama's policy has HURT America as a whole. Go back and read what the Tire Industry Association has to say.


I think America should charge tariffs, especially when countries do it to us.

That is another discussion entirely, and I don't think I would completely disagree with you. The focus of this post is not tariffs, it is Obama's ad, which claims his tariff saved jobs and Romney is weak on China. While focusing on this one tariff specifically it's evident it's a failed policy that has hurt the U.S. Should America charge a tariff that hurts our economy? I think not. I supply ample evidence that this particular program is a failure.


Romney does not think Union members are humans or Americans, that is because Romney is a grown
up spoilt rich boy who has no idea what a gallon of milk costs.

Well thank you for making it abundantly clear you are so partisan you do not care about truth or reason. Please cite me the quotes where Romney says union members are not human. Thanks.
edit on 22-9-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 09:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by campanionator
I am glad their are fewer Chinese tires... They blow out easier than most, raise insurance premiums and
kill people.

Great show me evidence the tires imported from other countries are better? You do realize the number of cheap imort tires has gone UP, as I quoted. So far your anylysis points to an increased road hazard due to Obama's policy, thank you for pointing that out.


Show me that tires from other countries are worse.



Actually I don't have to. My claim is that Obama lied about his saving thousands of jobs. I DID substantiate that with my post. Domestic production went down post tariff. For the sake of argument we can assume the tariff had a net zero effect. That still means Obama's ad is 100% wrong and he flat out lied, which is the conclusion I make in my post. I never stated the tariff is the direct cause, only what the results are.


The results do not necesitate a corralation... and you cannot prove that tariffs on chinese goods
have reduced demand on domestic goods. Yet you are making that connection.



I agree, protecting American jobs is a good thing. Romney agrees too, his quote that was mangled states that is his goal and that Obama is not doing it. Romney says that Obama HURT American jobs to help unions. So the overall US situation is negatively impacted while a SMALL special interest group is benefited. I substantiated in my post INDUSTRY EXPERTS claim Obama's policy has HURT America as a whole. Go back and read what the Tire Industry Association has to say.


What jobs have been hurt? Sales jobs at Walmart?

The US Tire Industry wants to make money by flooding the market with Chinese goods to put
American producers out of the game, which exactly what China wants to do. They can shift production
offshore, import it and put an American name on it. Exactly what they have been doing since
all these "Free trade" agreements have been arranged.


I think America should charge tariffs, especially when countries do it to us.

That is another discussion entirely, and I don't think I would completely disagree with you. The focus of this post is not tariffs, it is Obama's ad, which claims his tariff saved jobs and Romney is weak on China. While focusing on this one tariff specifically it's evident it's a failed policy that has hurt the U.S. Should America charge a tariff that hurts our economy? I think not. I supply ample evidence that this particular program is a failure.

Romney is weak on China, Romney is concerned about POS profit margin because thats
where millionaires make their loot, exactly by undercutting American producers, American
workers lose their production jobs and they are then shifted into POS sales jobs at WallMart for $7
an hour.



Well thank you for making it abundantly clear you are so partisan you do not care about truth or reason. Please cite me the quotes where Romney says union members are not human. Thanks


You are twisting the truth, Romney is exactly the type of man who puts his profits over jobs.



In his State of the Union address two years ago, President Obama argued there were a few things the U.S. needed to do in order to recover from the economic recession: One of them was to export more of goods around the world.

"The more products we make and sell to other countries, the more jobs we support right here in America," Obama said.

That night, the president unveiled a new goal: to double U.S. exports over the next five years. It would be an increase the president said would "support 2 million jobs in America."


Obama is just fine for American jobs




Most economists dismissed the pledge at the time as somewhat quixotic, but two years later, the U.S. is on pace to meet that goal. American exports are up 34 percent since the president gave that speech, and the number continues to rise.


www.npr.org...

America exports are on the rise BECAUSE of Obama's policies. Because he does not buy Romney's
big corporatist race to the bottom selling America out for Chinese goods.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 09:51 PM
link   
reply to post by campanionator
 


Lots of opinions, we already know how you feel. As soon as you cite some sources that show Obama's policy we are discussing has helped America I will reply to your garbage. I don't expect to hear much from you.

ETA: Here are some more facts which I am sure you will ignore.

The trade gap with China, the nation's most important -- and controversial -- trading partner, widened to a record $280 billion last year, and is on pace to get even bigger this year.

So apparently Obama is very friendly towards China. Largest trade gap in history with China under his watch.

But our imports have also grown. The trade gap -- the difference between the value of exports and imports -- has risen each of the last two years and is on pace to be even higher this year.

Never would have expected that based on your opinions.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney has said he would declare the country to be a currency manipulator, which would subject it to trade sanctions under U.S. law. He also would take steps to block government purchases of Chinese goods.

So who is tough on China? Keep drinking the Kool-aid. Please do not respond without actual facts. Your opinions are already known and are without merit.
money.cnn.com...
edit on 22-9-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 02:21 AM
link   
The fact no Obama supporters want to touch my thread with a 10 ft pole shows the ironclad case I have made. Thanks!



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 12:46 PM
link   
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


The Obama campaign surely is throwing out lots of propaganda. Attack and attack. To me, that means he knows he is up against the wall.

I'll be voting for Romney.

Good information here. SnF.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:52 AM
link   
I said I would respond to your thread when I got back from work so here I am.
I am not very interested in the tire tread but I read the articles you provided in the OP that I could. BTW please stop posting Wall Street Journal Articles or at least link to a spot where I don’t have to sign up to be able to read them.

Quote's from your sources:

President Barack Obama said that a two year old trade tariff on automobile tires Made in China led to over a thousand jobs in the U.S. tire business. It did create some jobs, but not much.


So it created some jobs. Glass half full point of view.

The tariffs did ultimately lead to a 30% reduction in Made in China tire imports from 2009 to 2011

Sounds good so far.

Presidential candidate Mitt Romney's book, "No Apology: the Case for American Greatness." Here's what the ad said the former Massachusetts Governor wrote in response to the tariffs:
"President Obama's action to defend American tire companies from foreign competition... is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers."

I take issue with Romney’s statement because if you take the word tire out of the quote it reads like this.

"President Obama's action to defend American companies from foreign competition... is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers."

Romney is a known corporate shill and has outsourced American jobs to china which is always bad for our nation but obviously great for corporate profits.

In fairness, some manufacturers quietly supported the tariffs. They did help raise prices and force many consumers to buy "better" and "best" tires instead of "good" after they wore their tires to the bone.


So there was support for this. I think he did for the betterment of American jobs but it obviously hasn’t worked as well as hoped.


At worst, he’s spinning the facts for political gain.


It wouldn’t surprise me.

I do not see any evidence that it has hurt American jobs either. That realy should be the issue don’t you think American jobs?

So in summary I just don’t see a big problem here this doesn’t look like a smoking gun.

BTW I had to but a new tire today for my truck it cost me $76 before tax. I would have never bought a Chinese tire either way.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Grimpachi
BTW please stop posting Wall Street Journal Articles or at least link to a spot where I don’t have to sign up to be able to read them.

It is an annoyance, but if you simply google the article you can read it without signing up. I included numerous articles aside from WSJ, but I do sometimes use them since it can be hard to find reputable sources on some topics.


Quote's from your sources:

President Barack Obama said that a two year old trade tariff on automobile tires Made in China led to over a thousand jobs in the U.S. tire business. It did create some jobs, but not much.


So it created some jobs. Glass half full point of view.

In 2010, roughly 51,600 people were employed by tire manufacturers, rising to 51,700 in 2011, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. So 100 jobs in tire manufacturing can arguably be attributed to him. As I also cited many other businesses were devastated by this policy. So arguing a net gain of jobs is pretty hard to do. I will give him 100 though. A far cry from the thousand+ he claimed.
From my source.

The two occurrences are not related, because domestic manufacturers had been eliminating the production of low-cost tires for years. The reason is simple: Compared to other countries, we really couldn’t manufacture low-cost tires. And China was providing those tires to our market.


So far as saving American jobs, it just isn't working," says Roy Littlefield of the Tire Industry Association, which has 6,000 members

Once all the data is looked at it becomes clear the President's policy has nothing to do with the small surge in job growth. In fact all my sources point to the tires from China being the low quality kinds that the US has not made in years and did not begin to make after the tariffs.


The tariffs did ultimately lead to a 30% reduction in Made in China tire imports from 2009 to 2011

Sounds good so far.

Did you not see this part? Obama claimed an increase in US production, that did not happen, imports went UP after the tariff.

The tariffs did ultimately lead to a 30% reduction in Made in China tire imports from 2009 to 2011, but that didn’t mean 30% more tires were produced in the U.S. It just meant that 30% more tires were imported from Canada; 110% more from South Korea; 44% more from Japan; 152% more from Indonesia; 154% more from Thailand; 117% more from Mexico and 285% more from low volume provider Taiwan




Presidential candidate Mitt Romney's book, "No Apology: the Case for American Greatness." Here's what the ad said the former Massachusetts Governor wrote in response to the tariffs:
"President Obama's action to defend American tire companies from foreign competition... is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers."

I take issue with Romney’s statement because if you take the word tire out of the quote it reads like this.

"President Obama's action to defend American companies from foreign competition... is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers."

Romney is a known corporate shill and has outsourced American jobs to china which is always bad for our nation but obviously great for corporate profits.

So if you take out a bunch of words from what Romney actually said he looks bad. I agree. This is what Romney said.

“President Obama’s action to defend American tire companies from foreign competition may make good politics by repaying unions for their support of his campaign, but it is decidedly bad for the nation and our workers. Protectionism stifles productivity."

He is specifically talking about a specific policy dealing with tires. How can you take that word out? The quote is meaningless with the entire context removed.


In fairness, some manufacturers quietly supported the tariffs. They did help raise prices and force many consumers to buy "better" and "best" tires instead of "good" after they wore their tires to the bone.


So there was support for this. I think he did for the betterment of American jobs but it obviously hasn’t worked as well as hoped.

Yes, a FEW companies supported it because they hoped to cash in by forcing overpriced tires on people. As I cited in my OP, this occured. Tire manufacturers used this as an excuse to raise prices, and you the consumer pay the price.



At worst, he’s spinning the facts for political gain.


It wouldn’t surprise me.

I do not see any evidence that it has hurt American jobs either. That realy should be the issue don’t you think American jobs?

Maybe you missed the numerous citations it did?

it really hurt a lot of people in the industry—smaller businesses that geared up to bring these tires in from China."

I have multiple sources that congtradict EVERY single point the President made. What is your definition of a smoking gun? You cherry pick one line from an entire article to make things seem not so bad and then you misquote Romney worse than Obama by trying to remove the word tire which removes all context.

Look at Romney's ACTUAL quote and tell me where what he is saying is bad. Show me sources saying Obama is right and THOUSANDS of jobs have been saved. If you can't, the gun is as smoking as it gets.
edit on 24-9-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:10 PM
link   
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


So I read through all your spin, and it still comes down to:

A) Obama stopped a flood of cheap Chinese tires from coming in.

B) Romney still thinks it is bad to protect American workers in principle.


It's a stinging Ad, and it further shows that Romney is not for the American worker. It's almost like he is for the Chinese worker with all the jobs he has sent their way.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by HostileApostle
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


So I read through all your spin, and it still comes down to:

Actually I have multiple sources and quoted them directly. I removed all spin, please show me one instance of me using "spin".


A) Obama stopped a flood of cheap Chinese tires from coming in.

And increased overall cheap imports and decreased domestic production levels. So now we have higher costs for the same products, more foreign tires, fewer domestic tires. That's a good thing?


B) Romney still thinks it is bad to protect American workers in principle.

Please show me the source of that opinion. Romney thinks benefiting unions at the COST of the American worker is bad. Which is what I prove with actual numbers and facts that is what Obama did.



It's a stinging Ad, and it further shows that Romney is not for the American worker. It's almost like he is for the Chinese worker with all the jobs he has sent their way.

Please show some sources for this? It's a great opinion, it just isn't supported by facts. The ad shows Obama is willing to say anything, even twist quotes, to get elected. So as I said, show actual numbers and facts that support your baseless statements. Thanks.
edit on 24-9-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 25 2012 @ 08:06 AM
link   
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


I didn’t miss quote him I used the sources you gave that I didn’t have to pay for. As far as finding an alternate source to read the WSJ articles maybe you do not understand that when I open the page up it does not give me a reference to find the article it only shows a sign up page.

I do not mind that the US bought from democratic nations instead of China I think that is better.


BTW I enjoy debating you I think I will add you as my first rival and I have to agree with you where you said you didn't spin the articles I like think that your perspective is different but that is part of debating. Cheers
edit on 25-9-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:09 PM
link   
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Thank you, I have enjoyed debating with you too as you are a reasonable person. There is no point in debating with someone who is beyond reasoning with, and despite us having different opinions, I enjoy the fact there is no animosity or name calling, simply sharing of ideas and ideals.



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 09:35 PM
link   
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


I have seen the add, I can not believe how blatantly politicians lie on national TV for votes, on the gullible and ignorant.

How does Mitt Romney is to take Cheaters in china?

Very simple, just like Obama has done, bending over and kissing Chinese's butts.

After all China is our biggest debt holder.
edit on 26-9-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 26 2012 @ 10:19 PM
link   
reply to post by marg6043
 


I think China is the 4th or 5th largest debt holder, they have basically the same amount as Japan. Romney actually has talked about playing hardball with China while Obama has done nothing to help US companies and consumers and has only helped unions.



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 02:39 PM
link   
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


When it comes to countries China is the largest holder

But Domestically SS first and Federal Reserve second.

www.wealthson.com...



posted on Sep, 29 2012 @ 11:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


When it comes to countries China is the largest holder

But Domestically SS first and Federal Reserve second.

www.wealthson.com...



Yes, by a very small margin. China is just barely ahead of Japan. Both hold a small portion of the debt.






top topics



 
5

log in

join