European army backed

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posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by alphacenturi
Reply to post by ollncasino
 


there maybe some who have this view, but blood is thicker than water, there are very very deep ties between aussies and canadians to the uk, mostly because we are descendents, usa as well, oliver cromwell said it best ' once a subject, always a subject'. we are all not as indifferent as some think.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



You are indeed correct and we shouldn't let geographical locations limit our co-operation. I believe that USA,UK, Canada and Australia would make a formidable alliance. We should have free trade and open borders, and start manufacturing goods for each other. Now that is a Union I would vote for.




posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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I'm sorry I don't have the time to read all pages of replies but I've got stuff to say about this.

I read about this so called European army, about 3 years ago I think. I found the info. in a Dutch conspiracy site.
It was drenched in other disturbing, material if true of course. It was also a Christian point of view, and the whole thing got linked as one of the first steps for the the coming of the beast and Armageddon. Unless we will make that a self fulfilling prophecy, I doubt this will happen as written there.


An army was planned long ago and the preparations have been going on a long time. They knew what they wanted.
Way before the European constitution I might add, was pushed down our throats as the Lisbon treaty
It would be under the command of the founders of the union. 11 nations called the WEU make up the army, where there is a command system, designed, constructed and ready for use. All without getting out to the public.

They haven't been saving money on defense to have some left to spend. They did cause they knew it would be replaced. Hell we have been paying for it, for a long time. The Netherlands payed billions, way more per head of the population then other members. My guess is we payed for what's about to come reality,

I fear that the problems will start when people will learn they have lost there beloved country, for some only years even, has become part of a dictatorship. The European rules and laws, will have to be followed when in conflict with national rule.
The president and his ministers have all been chosen by political leaders and are not democratically elected.
Nationalist will rise up and the EU army will be there to make them go away.

We will not start a war against China or Russia, cause we want to make money and get more powerful and stronger. Not commit suicide, but become A true player in the world. Without the conflicts of the past. Germany is at this point the largest economic power in Europe and it will keep that position for a long time I think.
It doesn't matter we will be ruled from Brussels. The capitol of a ripped nation. as center of power.

I hope I will learn it will happen peacefully and without much more bumps in the roads. Time will tell.


Peace and health for everyone. Love you guys and galls.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Sinter Klaas
 


It is a shame that you are willing to give up your freedom so easily. However I am safe in the knowledge that when push comes to shove the people of Britain will rise up against Europe and we will eventually leave. Just how long I have to wait for that though is anybodys guess.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by stumason
Hahah, a seat at the head of the table?

Doesn't mean we get to join in with the conversation though and by removing our veto, we will become something even worse than "America's vassal" as we would have no say at all, being outvoted by the Franco-German bloc every time.


Like Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland in the UK are outvoted by the English?

I take it you support Scottish Independence then?



edit on 22-9-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)


Thats a red herring.

You cannot compare the condition where a nation votes as one for a single government in a single election to the situation being proposed. Where entrenched nation states would vote in blocks to use a shared tool in partisan ways.

It would be analogous to each Scotland, England, N Ireland, Wales having separate states/elections/interests but a shared Army. A preposterous/untenable situation.

Statehood and national army/intelligence apparatus must go together. If we are not ready to have one European governing mechanism (and we are not) then we are not ready for one army.

I'm a pragmatist and nobody has yet convinced me that this approach would improve the security and prosperity of the UK. I'm also a Scot and reject breaking the UK up on the same basis. Ditching the romanticism I don't see it as an improvement.

Our current system works and our detached approach (and geography) has saved us from the poor judgement of the continentals on many occasions. What is on offer is not an improvement from a British perspective.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
The British had wars all over the world.


Again, showing a poor understanding of British history chap. Let's recap.

You said there was nothing between 1066 and the 18th century. I disagreed. I point out other wars, then you say the British had wars all over the world? Not between 1066 and the 18th century they didn't, as there was no "Britain" (as a country) until the 18th century! The Empire didn't come into being until the very end of the 18th, aside from some rebellious North American colonies



Originally posted by ollncasino
None of the wars you mention above threatened the UK's Independence, which I believe was your original criteria and why the wars with Germany and France were relevant to this thread.


Of course they did! All the wars involving France certainly did as well as Spain, where we were threatened with invasion then. The Dutch attacked the Royal Navy in the Thames Estuary and it was a Dutch Prince who landed to lead the Glorious Revolution.. C'mon man, wakey wakey....


Originally posted by ollncasino
I don't know how to break this to you, but secretly the Aussies don't like the English very much and the Canadians are somewhat indifferent to us these days. The Canadians, as a whole, have no deep love for the UK. Not now.

Perhaps when push comes to shove they would 'flock' to us, but the ties are growing weaker, not stronger with time.


Really? Not the experience I have had of my Canadian and Australian friends, but each person has differing experiences. One of my Canuck friends even went so far as to say he wished we were still in charge!



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by pikestaff
I would not be surprised if China could level the UK in half an hour as well, The might not feel the need to boast about how many ICBM's they have.


Exactly and I wouldn't dispute it. In fact, that is my point entirely. There won't be a War as it is too costly. I could see a localised "conflict" in the future, but both sides of the spectrum have too much to lose. MAD worked with the Soviets and it will work with China.

China has only seen its rise to power since being allowed to play and trade with the big boys. It can be turned off again. They are as reliant on us as we are on them, it makes no sense for them to bite the hand that feeds them.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by ollncasino
Like Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland in the UK are outvoted by the English?

I take it you support Scottish Independence then?


Er, what? Each has their own assembly or Parliament, which is something the English do not have at all!

Add onto that the fact that their MP's can vote on English only matters, yet we cannot pass laws that affect only them, just look to the Tuition fee vote in 2005 when Blair only got it passed with support from Scots MPs!

Jesus man, I was thinking you and I could have a sensible, intelligent debate, but you really are clutching now.

And I have no strong opinion either way on Scots independence. It's up to them, after all. I would prefer they stay in the Union, but it's not down to me.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


Here here...

I sometimes wish WW1 didn't get in the way, as before that there was talk of all members of the Empire having equal status and having an Imperial parliament, with democracy for 1/4 of the world.

Imperial Federation

Unfortunately, some silly bastard got his head blown off in Sarajevo and the idea kind of died with around 20 million others...



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by DutchBigBoy
 


Sounds like a new Roman empire. A shame how once great nations are turned into nothing more than states or counties.

You can bet this will not be the end of war. I served along side British soldiers, I am well aware of the history my country (USA) and England share. Our National songs Have their melodies. Only the words are changed. Churchhill's mother was American. I hate to think we will some day have to fight them because of some gagle they are a member of.

A post I was stationed on, in the sandbox, had two flags flying the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes. It brought tears to our eyes at times.

For England to be a part of this..... I hate to see them go. It's like watching a family member drink themselves to death. This Union ain't going to be a good thing.
edit on 22-9-2012 by murphy22 because: spelling



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


I think when it comes down to it that the Scottish will vote to stay in the Union, its a mutual relationship that works quite well. Scotland and its people are treated favourably by the politicians despite what many Scots may think. When it comes down to actually casting a vote, I suspect those with more than two brain cells will realise that a vote for independance would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by murphy22
reply to post by DutchBigBoy
 


Sounds like a new Roman empire. A shame how once great nations are turned into nothing more than states or counties.

You can bet this will not be the end of war. I served along side British soldiers, I am well aware of the history my country (USA) and England share. Our National songs Have their melodies. Only the words are changed. Churchhill's mother was American. I hate to think we will some day have to fight them because of some gagle they are a member of.

A post I was stationed on, in the sandbox, had to flags flying the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes. It brought tears to our eyes at times.

For England to be a part of this..... I hate to see them go. It's like watching a family member drink themselves to death. This Union ain't going to be a good thing.


The UK public has no appetite for being in Europe believe me and when push comes to shove we will vote ourselves out of it.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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I think this is just a natural progression considering today's technology. The world is getting smaller. Eventually in the centuries to come there will be no countries, only one planet. That's if we don't kill each other before that or face an extinction level event. This was coming in Europe and I don't see a problem with it, but then again I'm not that afraid of change. I'm certain this will be a reality in the U.S. in the next 20 to 30 years.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


As pointed out, there is the language barrier. What language will the EU military speak? It has to be common otherwise there will be SNAFUs all over the place. The same with equipment as it will have to be commonality based across the continent.

I might have missed it while looking through the threads, but how much of this new army will be Muslim as they are outbreeding every indiginous population in the EU, through immigration and births. I've read that the Muslim population will out number most of the native populace by 2030, though maybe as late as 2050. Will they bring radicalism with them? We are already seeing the seperate goverments kow-towing to their demands.

That alone, makes me think.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I think we might see our Enoch Powell moment before it gets to that point.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by michael1983l
 


For all our faults here in the States. You all, still have friends across the pond.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 


On this point, I am actually quite keen to point out that I would love there to be a global Union and us to move on as a species, but not in the model that is being presented to us in the EU. It is undemocratic and does not take into account the individual nations unique histories, cultures and laws. It is, as it stands, a bunch of unelected officials imposing weird and bizarre demands on nations that neither need or want the rules being imposed upon us.

The only kind of transnational Government that could work would be one that allows each member state to behave internally as they see fit and only passes legislation that is requested and needed at the transnational level, not dictating how our fruit and veg should look or pandering to one nations Farmers or fishermen at the expense of others...



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


The whole "Muslims out breeding" thing is a Daily Mail warcry based on little fact.

Muslims in the UK make up less than 3% of the population. It would take centuries of them having ten babies a generation for them to catch up. As it stands, in the UK, indigineous births recently have matched immigrant births (of all flavours) quite well.

Also, do not forget that 2nd generation immigrants and beyond tend not to follow their parents model and have many babies, simply because it is expensive and unnecessary. After all, in a Western country most kids survive until adulthood, whereas in the developing world infant mortality is high, hence the "need" to have many babies.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
Of course they did! All the wars involving France certainly did as well as Spain, where we were threatened with invasion then. The Dutch attacked the Royal Navy in the Thames Estuary and it was a Dutch Prince who landed to lead the Glorious Revolution.. C'mon man, wakey wakey....


Perhaps besides demonstrating a knowledge of British military history, how are these wars relevant to your opposition to a European army?



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


You will end up with what we have here in the US. "Free and Sovereign States" Trying to regain their rights from a monsterous, fat federal bureaucracy.

The federal goverment (your EU) passing laws they constitutionally had no authority to pass, nor legal right to inforce and absent jurisdiction.

Your personal freedom will be based on the will of the masses or dictates by some bozo that does not share your ideal of freedom.

Yeah, Wrap them reins and tuck your heels, Europe is in for a hell of a ride. Rome was "Democratically" governed at on time. They still ended up with an Emperor.

This is all just history repeating it self. What TPTB cold not gain through war....... I think the folks that are falling for this enlightenment crap have SUCKER stamped on their forehead. It'll probably be something else stamped there shortly.

You'll probably be wishing you had a "right to arms" in the not to distant future.



posted on Sep, 22 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
And I have no strong opinion either way on Scots independence. It's up to them, after all. I would prefer they stay in the Union, but it's not down to me.


And its up to the British people if they wish to further integrate into the EU, join an EU army or leave the EU all together.


Originally posted by stumason
Jesus man, I was thinking you and I could have a sensible, intelligent debate, but you really are clutching now.


I thought we were. Do you see what I was driving at now when I asked you about Scottish Independence? The parallels are quite striking.

Its up to the Scots if they leave the union. Its up to the British if they want to leave the EU or further integrate themselves into it.

A referendum should be called.





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