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Originally posted by stumason
Oh jesus...
For the past 1,000 years England (and later the UK) have been fighting to prevent this very thing..
Is collectively defending ourselves as Europeans such a bad thing?
Originally posted by Freeborn
Exactly who are we defending ourselves from because as far as I can tell history teaches us that the biggest threats to UK sovereignty has always come from continental Europe?
Originally posted by Freeborn
This is just another attempt by the Franco-German alliance to gain European domination.
And all this will do is allow them to ride roughshod over individual nations who do not agree with their dictates.
Originally posted by Freeborn
In 1975 the UK voted for continued membership of the EEC - a free trade alliance - not once have we agreed to the transference of sovereignty to foreign powers and the subsequent dilution of parliament's elected right to govern the UK.
If the people of the UK voted for continued membership of the EU in a referendum then so be it - until then I for one will passionately oppose to any such move.
Originally posted by Freeborn
Handing over our independent ability to protect ourselves to the EU, or anyone else, would be an insult to all those who have given so much to ensure our independence.
If Europe were once united in the sharing of its common inheritance, there would be no limit to the happiness, to the prosperity and glory which its three or four hundred million people would enjoy.
Yet it is from Europe that have sprung that series of frightful nationalistic quarrels, originated by the Teutonic nations, which we have seen even in this twentieth century and in our own lifetime, wreck the peace and mar the prospects of all mankind.
We must build a kind of United States of Europe.
In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living.
Winston Churchill, 1946
The Churchill Society
Originally posted by ollncasino
Europeans share the same European civilization.
Originally posted by ollncasino
Is collectively defending ourselves as Europeans such a bad thing?
Originally posted by ollncasino
Or are we destined to be like the ancient Greek city states? Continually fighting between ourselves and unable to prevent a united front to external threats except in the most extreme circumstances?
Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by ollncasino
I haven't given this a lot of thought so this isn't my considered opinion...just shooting the breeze.
My first thoughts see a lot of difficulties in the idea. For example, the infrastructure would need a monstrous level of bureaucracy to get over the regional, political and language differences. An army run by committee sounds doomed to fail! Also there are 'armies' and there are armies. Some nations have far better forces than others and wouldn't enjoy being in theatre with those who have a bad reputation, bad training and crap equipment.
On the positive side, Britain has jumped into one or two US-led wars that I didn't agree with. By being part of a Euro Army, we'd be more tied to the EU Human Rights legislation and make the UN more of an authority rather than just a choice. I'm not keen on having a missile ring pointing at Russia and the ME either and perhaps an EU Army would remove the need for that system?
The way to ease tensions between the US, China, Russia and the ME isn't by ramping up defences and using proxy hostilities; it's going to be by negotiation and balances of power. Maybe having this type of army would help that process?
Originally posted by stumason
What have we got to fear that we need to Unify to this extent?
It is ironic you are playing the fear card, as isn't that what the "PTB" or "MSM" do?
Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by ollncasino
In which case, what's wrong with NATO and the Commonwealth?
Why the need to dissolve a national institution to placate the French and Germans who, once they have managed to get us to acquiesce to that, they can get us to do anything....
Besides, we can level China in half an hour, should the need arise and they know it. They would be mad to start throwing their weight around to the point we needed to go to War with them.