Israel dismisses nuke-free Mideast summit; U.S. warns against Iran strike, page 6

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reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 05:16 AM by maes2

reply to post by Bluemoonsine

this is how Iran wants to destruct Israel

All solutions suggested and followed up by the Westerners and their affiliates for “resolving the problem of Palestine” have been wrong and unsuccessful, and it will remain so in the future. We have put forth a just and entirely democratic solution. All the Palestinians – both the current citizens of Palestine and those who have been forced to immigrate to other countries but have preserved their Palestinian identity, including Muslims, Christians and Jews – should take part in a carefully supervised and confidence-building referendum and chose the political system of their country, and all the Palestinians who have suffered from years of exile should return to their country and take part in this referendum and then help draft a Constitution and hold elections. Peace will then be established.
english.khamenei.ir...

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 02:14 PM by AceWombat04

I'm opposed to the existence of nuclear weapons in any nation, in any capacity. I believe nations having them should dismantle them permanently, and those without them should not seek to develop them. I'm not sure what would be entailed in doing this. I suppose all nuclear armed nations would have to submit to full and unfettered, "anytime, anywhere" inspections, large nuclear powers like Russia and the U.S. would have to subscribe to a ratio-based system of disarmament (if they have 3000 and we have 1000, then for every one we dismantle they dismantle three, etc.) and that process would have to be transparent, simultaneous, and verifiable.

I know it would be a challenge and pose risks, but we're an intelligent species. We should be able to find some means of ridding ourselves of weapons capable of terminating our species and civilizations in my opinion.

edit on 9/23/2012 by AceWombat04 because: Typo

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 04:49 PM by mbkennel

reply to post by maes2

That sounds like a nice dream. How about, first we estabilsh two states with similar peaceful procedures, and then in 50 years they can decide if they want to merge. Oh yes, and let's have a democracy and referendum about the system of government in Iran.

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 08:04 PM by GarrusVasNormandy

reply to post by reeferman

that is a lie.

they have been stealing Palestinian land from DAY ONE.. crossing all the boarders agreed upon for is ra el.

How could they steal something if it was given to them afterwards? You might want to revise your knowledge on the origins of the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Quoting a map with arrows doesn't prove anything. I could as easily do the same thing for my arguments, but I had this crazy idea that people could debate their arguments without calling other liars and using drawings.

now they kill & treat Palestinian people just as badly, if not worse than anything the Nazi WORK camps did to cause the creation of is ra el in the first place?

and you think they are defending themselves?

you are delusional...

That's their problem, not mine. Making irrelevant and futile arguments around humans suffering does not serve any purpose. It's just perpetuating the irrational anger and hate that are the cause for this in the first place.

There is a reason why I try to be factual instead of using the colors of either side of the dispute. The second you chose to side with one of them, you are unable to clearly see the faults and the mistakes of either them.

And please, put away your cliché accusations that I'm delusional or anything like that. It doesn't work on me, and makes you look like an angry keyboard basher.

and they have Nukes?..

and you people blame Iran who has never been on record attacking anyone for wanting Nukes...

and when its time for a summit.. is ra el steps aside & has tried to hide the Nuke program from the world..

but you blame Iran.. again..

I don't know, ask them, not me. I'm just a member in an internet forum.

"you people"? That's cute. Very reasonable and logical.

Israel hides what it wants, they haven't signed any paper saying they are forced to do so. Iran could do the same, but they chose to sign the NPT and the IAEA.

You would have noticed that I clearly mentioned that several times, if you weren't so busy posting immature pictures and making personal attacks.

stupidity abounds..

Maybe I should post cartoons and maps with arrows to look more credible...

edit on 23-9-2012 by GarrusVasNormandy because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 23-9-2012 @ 08:17 PM by GarrusVasNormandy

reply to post by buster2010

But what right did Britain have to steal Palestinian Land to give it to them.

None. I don't agree with it.

That's why I mentioned the solution of placing Israel in a remote area where they wouldn't bother, nor disturb anyone. However, like I previously stated, there was section in the resolution that established a Palestinian state along with an Israeli state. They were obligated to cooperate with each-other, and several points were made that would force Israel to deal with Palestine peacefully, and there were even several economical treaties settled to make them both succeed in becoming independent states. Palestine - if the Arab community hadn't started a war over the resolution - could have been a friend of Israel, since both would gain something from the resolution.

But what is done, is done.

They had nothing to do with what happened to the Jews. Part of Germany should have been given to them that is the nation that waged war with them.

No, but they were one of the Allied power that won WW2, and that gave them special powers and international credibility. I'm not saying I agree with that philosophy, but that's what happened.

Delivering a part of Germany to the Jewish community would be asking for the same thing to happen again.

Besides, back then Germany was divided. Even if the international community wanted to place them there, they couldn't because of all the political implications they would have to go through.

It's really no problem to produce crops when you steal other peoples farmlands.

I wasn't talking that. I mentioned the crops that they developed in deserted fields. Israel has been the pioneer in a lot of fertilization and irrigation techniques.

Even now they constantly steal the olive groves from both Muslims and Christians that have farmed that land for generations.

If those crimes were committed by extremists - like your link states - then Israel needs to get on top of it and stop it.

If those crimes are being committed by Israel, then the international community needs to stop Israel from doing it.

There was peace in that area before the Zionist moved in. Christian , Muslims and Jews lived together with no problems until the creation of Israel. Zionist are the ones that brought hatred into this area.

I completely disagree.

That area has been in constant war, and it is all related to religion - not specifically Jewish.

Pining the responsibility for that on Israel - or any specific group - is historically correct. We should not allow our presence in History cloud our judgment under the scale of past events.

By the way, thank you for changing the way you address my posts. It's now clear that we can exchange arguments without any unpleasant comments.

edit on 23-9-2012 by GarrusVasNormandy because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 03:06 AM by SplitInfinity

reply to post by Iwinder

The Russian Army could not even provide a small Unit of Soldiers with Food and Water which Russia sent to Bosnia. They had to beg for Food and Water from the Brits...which the Brit's took pity and FED them.

China is not even CLOSE to being a match against the U.S. Military and is using very old Equipment.

This will not happen but even if Russia and China attacked U.S. Forces which are based WORLD WIDE...the U.S. would easily WIN A CONFLICT WITH BOTH! Look up a prediction of this in JANE's a Defense Publication. The Scenario in this Publication states that neither Russia or China could hold out long against a U.S. Military Attack.

Split Infinity

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 03:17 AM by SplitInfinity

reply to post by tangonine

I cannot argue with you. But there is one thing we are doing which makes sense...DIRECT MILITARY TO MILITARY SECRET TALKS between the Iranian Military and the U.S. Military. The Iranian Military will STAND DOWN given a SUICIDAL ORDER TO BLOCK THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ! The Iranian Navy KNOWS it will be the SACRIFICIAL LAMB in the Old Religious Guards attempt to rally support around it by creating a Battle Scenario at sea which would cause the complete and utter OBLITERATION of the Iranian Navy.

The Iranian Naval Leadership KNOWS that they are being SACRIFICED IN AN ATTEMPT TO SAVE power for a bunch of 80 to 90 year old Men who have never fought a battle in their lives and are FAT ON OIL MONEY!

Split Infinity

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 03:24 AM by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Iwinder

The Russian Army could not even provide a small Unit of Soldiers with Food and Water which Russia sent to Bosnia. They had to beg for Food and Water from the Brits...which the Brit's took pity and FED them.

China is not even CLOSE to being a match against the U.S. Military and is using very old Equipment.

This will not happen but even if Russia and China attacked U.S. Forces which are based WORLD WIDE...the U.S. would easily WIN A CONFLICT WITH BOTH! Look up a prediction of this in JANE's a Defense Publication. The Scenario in this Publication states that neither Russia or China could hold out long against a U.S. Military Attack.

Split Infinity

China uses very old equipment? hm... if you say so. Your own country seems to disagree.

"US Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Saturday voiced concern over China's latest hi-tech weaponry and called for an improvement in uneasy military relations with Beijing to help defuse tensions."

"They clearly have the potential to put some of our capabilities at risk. And we have to pay attention to them, we have to respond appropriately with our own programmes," Gates said."

Ok... again, if you say so. Never underestimate your enemy... and remember history. The US usually has trouble with "very old equipment" - vietnam, iraq...

But you know... both a medieval longsword and a ww2 mosin nagant still go through human flesh... like they used to. Flesh hasnt changed - ppl speak of old weapons as if we've mutated and turned invulnerable against those weapons just because they're old. Well... we didnt mutate.

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 05:45 AM by mideast

Man , your incredible threads reminds me of George Orwell and his book called animal house.

How the black pig changed the sentence from "all animals are equal" to "all animals are equal , but some animals are more equal"

And in this case , it seems that Israel is more equal then Iran.

IMO , Israel and USA nuclear facilities should be open to IAEA inspectors or they are more equal.

reply posted on 24-9-2012 @ 06:48 AM by SplitInfinity

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

This is a clear and obvious statement to expand U.S. Weapons systems that are not needed. When the Cold War was raging...The CIA and DIA as well as NSA were all talking about a MISSILE GAP that DID NOT EXIST between the U.S. and Soviet Union. The U.S. was making operational THOUSANDS of Solid Fuel ICBMS and the Soviets had just a HANDFUL OF LIQUID FUELED MISSILES.

We were incredibly ahead of the Soviets yet our own intell Agencies were reporting that the U.S. was falling behind when nothing could be further from the truth. Right now...U.S. Military Capabilities are at a ALL TIME HIGH and the Gap between the U.S. and China as well as Russia is SO GREAT that they have no ability to close this gap. This talk is all about DEFENSE SPENDING ON PROJECTS WE DO NOT NEED!

I more so than most people KNOW THIS TO BE A FACT as I still do jobs on occasion. The level of U.S. Military Advancement is GIGANTIC! Any further spending of money on more systems is a Lobbyist's DREAM! China's New Stealth Fighter is a typical Example. It does not have the ability to be IR-Light Invisible...thus it is WORTHLESS! The F/A-22 Raptor is not only Impossible to track on radar but uses a special EM-Field Generator which makes it invisible to IR-LIGHT DETECTION. This is tech. that is 50 YEARS in ADVANCEMENT of China. We can EASILY SHOOT DOWN THEIR NEW STEALTH FIGHTER WITH A VARIETY OF MISSILES!

As for the Highly Touted CHINESE MEDIA BLITZ ABOUT THEIR CARRIER KILLER MISSILE...a NEW SM-3 ABM can easily destroy a MULTITUDE OF THESE LAUNCHED AT A U.S. CARRIER AT THE SAME TIME! The SM-3 ABM/ASAT was able to DESTROY a failing Satellite with a full Toxic Hydrazine Tank Traveling at 18,000 MPH at ORBITAL DISTANCE...now imagine how easy it will be to Shoot Down Multiple Chinese Carrier Killer Missiles Traveling at 2 to 4 Times the Speed of Sound at a distance of an Aegis Class Cruisers Choice.

China's Military is a JOKE! Split Infinity

reply posted on 25-9-2012 @ 09:57 AM by nosacrificenofreedom

reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy

Following the conclusion that IF such threat appears, Peter takes the chance of nobody believing in him, when he is stating the truth.

Only difference is that this Peter is strapped with an Uzi!

reply posted on 26-9-2012 @ 12:07 AM by BulletsCantSilenceIdeas

The middle east is like the Wild West. However, while I think that the governments in the Middle East are far from modernized (which is their choice) they are very publicly barbaric and seem to give a **** less about the treatment of their citizens. At least America PRETENDS to care, although we are just as corrupt. I believe that if Israel wants other nations Nuclear Facilities to be inspected, than it needs to agree to do the same. The hypocrisy between these countries that are on the brink of war is insane. Either everyone plays by the rules, or there is no stopping complete anarchy from breaking out.

It's painfully obvious that Israel is just rubbing salt in the wounds of feuding countries in an attempt to fuel the war machine. I can't say I blame these other countries for their strong dislike of Israel because all they do is whine, complain, and then when asked to participate in activities that they condone, they refuse.

A lot of countries do this, not excluding the United States of America, and I think that handling situations in this manner only fuel the hate and mistrust between nations, thus creating propaganda.