ATS is finished!

reply to post by FrostForests

I don't get it. We should all know MSM is falsehood. We should all know that we have to take even independent media with a grain or two of salt. But no, we flock to these threads because we flock to argumentation. Not independent thinking, not logic, but argument for argument's sake.

I agree, sorta.
At first glance this site seems this way, and it's frustrating seeing the bickering and closed minded one liners.

I have come to see ATS like an arranged marriage. We have a lot in common but no history with each other.
We expect others to understand us from a few words, when words are not enogh we search for links to anything that will help us be understood. We all do this at the same time ignoring what the other is saying searching for ways to be better understood. It becomes a cock fight trying to protect ones dignity, and establish authority,
perhapse compensating for insecurities. In the meantime critical information and insight to a persons real personalities and influence get ignored. The anonymous nature of all this adds to this frustration of not being understood.

Like any marriage if you recognize the importance of compromise to find common ground, then the defensive mechanisms drop and we finally see the others perspective, and real understanding can be made. Otherwise you get a household full of bickering. It comes down to listening, asking questions, and letting go of the fear of being real, the unrealistic fear of being changed by what someone says. Deny arrogance.

As a Bible believing Christian on this site I find it hard to not want to jump all over someone when they hit a weeknes in my faith. I'm secure in what I believe but not arrogant. I'm here trying to understand why people believe what they believe. When I can I drop my arrogance I find my time spent here to be way more educational, and have acctually developed compassion for some who I have never met, don't even known their name.

There is something that brought us here. Fear, fear of the unknown, fear of being decived. We can't say for certine when how why or what will happen, but some event will intrude our lives and change us forever. It is wise to protect ourselves by denying ignorance, but once we recognize we are not alone the fear will subside, and a better larger world perspective can take shape.

Here's a question, why can't we do away with the stars?

I'd be happy with this, but as the OP said there are ego's in this equation

Maybe a lot of people would post 'less', but wouldn't that result in a lot 'less' BS being posted?

No doubt this has been hashed out before, I just wanted to throw it out there.

reply to post by OpenEars123


The long story short of it is organics.

If SkepticOverlord decided to do away with stars, flags, contributor levels ( gold and silver borders ) almost instantly somebody would start a thread suggesting that we come up with a way to let members know which threads and posts were good. They'd want something akin to a "like" button.

Requests like that gave rise to stars and flags to begin with.

Personally, I tend to ignore the flags and stars. I'm more a sucker for familiar avatars - of members I know to usually post quality or entertaining posts.

~Heff

reply to post by OpenEars123


The questioning of the star system, or thumps up system, is longstanding, for any social site. It's not necessarily great for quality but it is for quantity (read traffic $)

reply to post by OpenEars123


I agree, but I don't think that the stars are the real issue. I think people are simply giving it away very easily. Perhaps if you had the option to star a post considering the amount of posts you posted yourself (Like 1:2 post/stars ratio), it would decrease the amount of stars being given away out of proportion, and would reflect a measure of real appreciation and contribution.

There won't be threads or issues like 150 stars for 2 lines in a post, and will ultimately limit the amount of "star whores" and members who post MSM news, frankly just to get the S & F.

It kinda reminds me of a post I saw on FB a little while ago, which really reflects this imo:



It goes the same here with the stars system, if people will have to think about which posts to star instead of starring freely, I think it will reflect better the quality of the posters, and not (for example) the wiseguys whoring for stars and lurking for highly flaggable new threads to post something on the front page, and getting appreciation for it. Stars will then be 'hard to get', but at least ATS won't have members with 4 or 5 times the amount of stars than their amount of posts, while only posting what people want to hear - in order to receive stars. Stars will have to be earned, by real appreciation to a post and no mindless starring.

If there ever was something that ruined ATS to what it is now, I believe that it must be the current star system.

This is a very good thread, thanks for having the balls to post it OP. If it wasnt for all the alternative news on here I would have quit ATS long ago. But that day will come sonner than later anyway.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I love ATS.

I've been here for a few years, and I've taken year-long "breaks" from time to time when needed. Sometimes this site makes me really paranoid. Go figure.

Anyway, the thing I love about ATS is debating amicably with other members. Really helps open my eyes to different perspectives and ideas.

Yes, some people are jerks when they reply to threads. But that's a sample of our society. Overall, ATS is a MUCH more pleasant forum than similar sites who have a "no holds barred" attitude.

And it is important to remember that new "sheeple" (i really hate that term) arrive to our site every day. These folks are just beginning their journey along a path that many of us have travelled for years. Is it fair to believe these newbies will be as "enlightened" as the older members? Of course not. So patience is necessary.

Since my time here, ATS has changed and evolved....somethngs for the better, somethings for the worse. But its still home to me, and I still enjoy myself tremendously when I'm here.

ATS is fine but the people is ##cked

I agree with the OPs observasion, although I've only been viewing for near 3 years my self, the fact is, on a daily basis, I'm still scrolling back to 2002/03/04/05 to find decent posts with desent investagative skills involved with mature conversation.

I've recently returned from one weeks post banning, and during the whole time there was only 1 single post on one single thread I wished I was able to contribute, the rest was garbage, and my post banning made me realise how much time I spent adding to that garbage.

That's aimed at user content by the way, not ATS, for the mods still keeping an eye on me aha.

reply to post by FrostForests

Originally posted by FrostForests

I've been a long time lurker of this forum, back from close to a decade ago.

This↑ is a very common remark that is often made in threads such as this one. Another shared commonality by most who post threads such as this, is a much lower than average Post-Count.

So because of that, I will tell you the same thing that I've told many others:


[color=FFEA5E]Shut the hell up; Stop whining; & Do something about it.

All of the time and thought that went into this particular OP, could have been used in creating a thread about something that actually matters.

I would suggest looking at how many other user-contributed sites have solved this problem. I think many of those options are aligned with the ATS community.

Not knowing the infrastructure ATS operates on, I'm unsure how feasible/infeasible changing the behavior of the threads/stars/flags implementation is.

I've always liked the 'earn more privileges as you contribute more' model.

www.stackoverflow.com is a great example of this. When you initially sign up, you can't do a lot more than just read the threads. As you begin contributing, you get more rights.

Not being able to star threads until you've posted 25 messages will (nearly) completely eliminate the bias that comes from new users.

But it seems that some of the bias is stemming not just from new-user bias, but, for lack of a better term, the habit energy of the existing users. I love the phrasing of the OPs post - it's main goal, IMHO, is to serve as a wake-up call to that very fact. "Wait a minute. Why DO I star-and-flag that post?" For me, the rationale usually is "I think this is important enough that I want it emphasized over other stories."
It's very easy to forget that, by starring everything, you star nothing.

Impose a star-limit. Five per day. (More elegant models allow more points based on the number of points you have earned.)

Maybe allow down-starring, but only for users that have contributed, say, 100, 500 or more messages.

Make the path of least resistance for our users be aligned with the direction and emphasis that we, as a community, want the site to emphasize.

The specifics are important...and not something that one person decides off-the-cuff while drafting one of his first ATS messages. Put great minds together, and you can accomplish great things. What about starting a meta-thread with the goal of coming up with a set of proposals? These issues are solvable, improvable.

The censorship and arbitrary deletion of posts/threads on ATS by so-called 'moderators' is absolutely appalling to the point that I will never again post anything of substance on this forum, so because of this sort of heavy handedness I refuse to make any further meaningful contributions to these forums. The behavior seen here is comparable to what we have come to expect from the US government and their associated intelligence operatives. In fact, I am not surprised to know that the aforesaid is directly responsible for the ruination of ATS.

BTW - I am a long standing member here - from it inception, and not just since "Registered: 11-8-2008" and I have seen the usurpation of these forums by a handful of heavy handed censors first hand, and the deterioration has been rather steady as of late. I agree with the OP -

"ATS is finished!"

ATS should change its ways or be doomed as "LetsRoll" was doomed to failure for the very same reasons.

This post is copied and will be re-posted if it is deleted by the censors - until you ban me - which will be no surprise to me.

Okay, now I'm not sure whether to give stars to the comments arguing against stars. *insert playful stuck-out tongue emoticon here* I do agree that stars are so often misplaced though.

Stars and flags are indeed an ego boost, for me included. Of course, that is hardly a pragmatic reason. The desire for a "like" function to signify a Must-Read post makes little sense, because interest is in the eye of the beholder.

Then again, posts that appear incredibly mundane to me that possess tons of flags are obviously of interest to quite a lot of beholders.

Originally posted by FrostForests
We get those who never got their hooks into the mouths of others on other forums, to attempt such here. This is the issue. We have an influx of mainstream thinkers invading this forum for their own amusement and argumentative masturbation.

On that note, i'm glad to see many members find Sublimecraft's recent posts interesting...this is what ATS was once for, not modern political flash in the pan back and forth BS.

Sadly that's what happens when you become mainstream and embrace all that it has to offer.
The site would not be free were it not for advertising and so on and I have no problems with the owners taking steps to ensure the security and longevity of ATS.

But ultimately, that is what killed ATS.

Money and popularity.


You're spot on about sublimecraft's thread too, that's why we all started reading ATS back in the day... and then registered and so on... all the great topics and interesting threads about weird and wonderful things.

Now all we get is "Muslims are evil" "Obama is a Communist" "Gays are evil"

That about sums ATS up for the last 2-3 years...maybe more.



Also the "Look at me!!" crowd...

Those whose sole purpose is to get stars and flags and fans and groupies....
The day ATS realises that popularity and reputation and pretty colours next to our names are meaningless, we will have moved forward significantly.

Some people on here LOVE themselves and their egos are ridiculous.

Oh well

That's life I guess.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by OpenEars123

 

The long story short of it is organics.

If SkepticOverlord decided to do away with stars, flags, contributor levels ( gold and silver borders ) almost instantly somebody would start a thread suggesting that we come up with a way to let members know which threads and posts were good. They'd want something akin to a "like" button.

Requests like that gave rise to stars and flags to begin with.

Personally, I tend to ignore the flags and stars. I'm more a sucker for familiar avatars - of members I know to usually post quality or entertaining posts.

~Heff

I agree with you, but I was only talking of ridding the stars.
I too ignore the flags and stars, but unfortunately it seems that the majority of people thrive on them (especially the stars!). Flags are OK I guess, and I didn't even know there were gold and silver borders.

Respect.
OE123

I'm honestly not understanding the logic here.

I agree that there's many more junk threads, but why bother with them

All that's changed over the years from my point of view is my ability to auto-filter out the trash in posts and threads.

I skim over the BS quicker, and focus in on quality threads/post with better precision.

There's still awesome threads being authored, and probably at the same rate as in years way back when, it's just got more clutter in between.

If anything, I keep coming back for opinions and news about the latest events. I love that this place actually has members who care about the environment, and scientific advances. That's more than enough reason to keep membership active, IMO.

Thank all of you for your comments.

Interesting, logical views on the current status of this site, some I had not realized prior to many of the expressions made here.

ATS is not finished, it has become evolved. You cannot expect things to remain the same for years. If you do, you know you are becoming too old to continue.

New generations are posting. Get used to it. They grew up differently. Maybe ATS has to come up with new rules to promote more individual thinking and objective outlook on situations?

For example....maybe the OP of a new thread must personally type in 500 words which demonstrate evidence and thorough research into an article they found online? Maybe OP's should receive penalty points for not contributing thoughtfulness into active topics?

At the end of the day, it is a chat forum. Get used to it

Originally posted by Skywatcher2011ATS is not finished, it has become evolved. You cannot expect things to remain the same for years. If you do, you know you are becoming too old to continue.New generations are posting. Get used to it. They grew up differently. Maybe ATS has to come up with new rules to promote more individual thinking and objective outlook on situations?For example....maybe the OP of a new thread must personally type in 500 words which demonstrate evidence and thorough research into an article they found online? Maybe OP's should receive penalty points for not contributing thoughtfulness into active topics?At the end of the day, it is a chat forum. Get used to it

Yea - and Maybe anyone who reaches a thousand posts here at ATS should be automatically banned - permanently.

reply to post by de_Genova


So that means all the forum moderators should be banned? Are you on crack?