The Chop Clearance List.

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posted on Oct, 22 2012 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by jammer1976

I thought i knew alot about UFOs but there is always new info i come across here at ATS...thats why i love this website:up..


Same here mate - always some new freaky case or aspect to the UFO phenomenon seems to pop up on these boards.
Here's another strange one taken from Chop's clearance list where an aircraft's radar actually locked onto a UFO and the plane 'headed towards it although drawn by a magnet' - very freaky stuff.

Newpaper article (pdf)

Cheers.




posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 
Thank you the post ill dig in to after work...and please fell free to send me any thing you come across...i'll do the same




posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by UFO Partisan

Chop sure thought it was an important case . . . .

"I mean, the fact that obviously whatever these things were had intelligence enough to get out of the area when they had an intercept going in. They had to be intelligently controlled. You know, I was very apprehensive about that! I, in fact, was scared! I don't mind telling you this, it scared me! It was frightening!" -Al Chop

. . . . and so did President Truman.


Very nice link there mate and some certainly some interesting comments made by Senior Air Traffic Controller Harry Barnes - I don't know if you've seen this (rather long) article by Kevin Randle but it also makes some good points about Major General John Samford’s press conference dealing with the incidents on the 19th/20th and 26th/27th:


Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 10


Nice website BTW - enjoyed the article about Linus Pauling.


Cheers.


Thanks a lot Karl. Yes, Kevin found the full transcript of the Samford presser and it is awfully interesting, especially his reference to people seeing strange things in the sky since "Biblical times." Very interesting.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by UFO Partisan

Yes, Kevin found the full transcript of the Samford presser and it is awfully interesting, especially his reference to people seeing strange things in the sky since "Biblical times." Very interesting.


Yes indeedy mate - was also interested to see Bluebook's Chief Major Hector Quintanilla also penned a similar theme in this 1966 article taken from the (formerly classified) CIA publication 'Studies in Intelligence' - he openly discusses historical UFO sightings including Ezekiel's wheel despite being one of the most infamous UFO debunkers of the lot.



reply to post by jammer1976
 


Will do Jammer.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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Article sourced by Realtvufos - "What Radar Tells About Flying Saucers” by Donald E. Keyhoe, 1952 (TRUE Magazine, U.S.A.) (NICAP.org)



A large part of the article focuses on the July 1952 Washington, D.C. UFO incidents:


In a new investigation of the flying saucer, TRUE Magazine has secured Air Force confirmation of these important facts:

1. Since 1947, hundreds of unidentified aerial objects have been tracked by radar operators of the Air Force, Navy and Civil Aeronautics Administration.

2. More than 300 times, Air Force interceptor planes have chased mysterious lights and unidentified objects revealed by radar scopes.

3. Strange round objects have shown on interceptors gun camera pictures and on photographs from the ground at a missile testing range.

4. The "temperature inversion" or mirage answer to radar sightings widely publicized by Dr. Donald H. Menzel of Harvard has failed to satisfy Force investigators because he has not attempted to explain any specific "saucer" cases in official files.


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posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
Article sourced by Realtvufos - "What Radar Tells About Flying Saucers” by Donald E. Keyhoe, 1952 (TRUE Magazine, U.S.A.) (NICAP.org)



A large part of the article focuses on the July 1952 Washington, D.C. UFO incidents:


In a new investigation of the flying saucer, TRUE Magazine has secured Air Force confirmation of these important facts:

1. Since 1947, hundreds of unidentified aerial objects have been tracked by radar operators of the Air Force, Navy and Civil Aeronautics Administration.

2. More than 300 times, Air Force interceptor planes have chased mysterious lights and unidentified objects revealed by radar scopes.

3. Strange round objects have shown on interceptors gun camera pictures and on photographs from the ground at a missile testing range.

4. The "temperature inversion" or mirage answer to radar sightings widely publicized by Dr. Donald H. Menzel of Harvard has failed to satisfy Force investigators because he has not attempted to explain any specific "saucer" cases in official files.


link




That is an interesting number sited there in item 2. I have been reading through a book dealing with history of USAF Air Defense Command fighter squadrons in the NE USA during the cold war. There is mention of UFO intercepts but nothing providing data on what percentage of scrambles were for UFOs and radar blips that were never identified. I did find some stats that indicated an approximate average of one scramble each day for every fighter squadron. I think there were at least two dozen ADC squadrons across northern lower 48 and Alaska. Many scrambles were however, basically "exercises" used for training, or to keep Alert crews on readiness and to assess effectiveness of fighter interceptions.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by bluestreak53

I have been reading through a book dealing with history of USAF Air Defense Command fighter squadrons in the NE USA during the cold war. There is mention of UFO intercepts but nothing providing data on what percentage of scrambles were for UFOs and radar blips that were never identified..


Am sure you're right about that Bluestreak and the number of intercept scrambles for UFOs as opposed to training exercises and unidentifed blips may be much lower than 300 -saw you posted over on the Missing gun camera footage thread and the newspaper article from the same year (1947) does state that 'fighter planes, equipped with gun and tele-scopic cameras are being kept ready to take off after any flying saucers' so it really would be interesting to see the results from such an exercise (or footage if they ever decide to release any).

Also found Mr Chop's statement in the OP and Dr Hynek's comment below relevant, as is the advice given to pilots here by Major Henry Shields in the NSA's 'secret' Intelligence magazine 'MIJI Quarterly' - perhaps we'll never know the true number of military pilot UFO cases as it's been stated before that there were 'classified intelligence channels for reporting UFO's that completely bypassed Bluebook'.



"We had case after case after case from military pilots that never hit the press"

Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969


Cheers.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
[q

"We had case after case after case from military pilots that never hit the press"

Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969


Cheers.


That is also probably 100% true. I'm pretty sure the USAF and others did everything they could to keep major cases out of Bluebook and the papers.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by bluestreak53

Originally posted by karl 12
[q

"We had case after case after case from military pilots that never hit the press"

Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969


Cheers.


That is also probably 100% true. I'm pretty sure the USAF and others did everything they could to keep major cases out of Bluebook and the papers.


Apparently they 'jumped handsprings' to keep the media away from the truly puzzling cases mate -as for keeping major UFO incidents out of Bluebook, this doc states that 'UFO reports which could affect national security are not part of the Bluebook system' so make what you will out of that.



"Whenever a case happened that they coud explain--which was quite a few--they made a point of that, and let that out to the media. . .Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them."

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, former Chairman of the Dept. of Astronomy at North Western University and scientific advisor to Project Bluebook from 1952-1969

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As for the Chop list, as well as the freaky case at the top of this page involving an aircraft being drawn towards a UFO like a magnet -there's another interesting case below which was classified 'unknown' and involves separately located witnesses (one in the air) describing a strange object that was large, silver and like a flattened orange (or tennis ball).




At 1:43 P.M. on the ninth a CAA employee at the airport was walking across the ramp in front of the administration building. He happened to glance up at the sky-why, he didn't know-and out of the corner of his eye he caught a flash of light on the southeastern horizon. He stopped and looked at the sky where the flash of light had been but he couldn't see anything. He was just about to walk on when be noticed what he described as "a pinpoint" of light in the same spot where he'd seen the flash. In a second or two the "pinpoint" grew larger and it was obvious to the CAA man that something was approaching the airport at a terrific speed. As he watched, the object grew larger and larger until it flashed directly overhead and disappeared to the northwest. The CAA man said it all happened so fast and he was so amazed that he hadn't called anybody to come out of the nearby hangar and watch the UFO. But when he'd calmed down he remembered a few facts. The UFO had been in sight for about fifteen seconds and during this time it had passed from horizon to horizon. It was shaped like a "flattened tennis ball," was a bright silver color, and when it was directly overhead it was "the size of a 50-cent piece held at arm's length."


link



Airbourne pilot description (two minutes later):




A matter of minutes after the sighting (at Terre Haute, Indiana) a pilot radioed Terre Haute that he had seen a UFO. He was flying from Greencastle, Indiana, to Paris, Illinois, when just east of Paris he'd looked back and to his left. There, level with his airplane and fairly close, was a large silvery object, "like a flattened orange," hanging motionless in the sky. He looked at it a few seconds, then hauled his plane around in a tight left bank. He headed directly toward the UFO, but it suddenly began to pick up speed and shot off toward the northeast. The time, by the clock on his instrument panel, was 1:45 P.M.-just two minutes after the sighting at Terre Haute.


Documents (pdf)


Cheers.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:05 PM
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Al Chop discusses Washington radar/visual incident in July, 1952.



See 15:20




posted on Oct, 10 2013 @ 08:55 PM
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Robert Barrow gives more background info on Al Chop and the 1953 letter sent to Henry Holt & Co:



Oldies Still the Best: Al Chop's 1953 Classic






Al's letter pretty much delineates the end of an era, a period when citizens could depend somewhat upon openness in government. The CIA, H.P. Robertson and the gang were concerned about UFO reports messing up intelligence channels integral to national security, so everybody went nuts and decided to downplay UFOs from that point forward. Maybe it was a good idea at the time, but -- but look where we are today. The policy never went away and things just became worse. Any, any -- any government public information official daring to write a letter like that on official paper tomorrow would be nailed faster than you can say yes-we-can.

Way back in this blog, I posed a question or two about heroes, contemplating who they are and what makes them heroes. While many are obvious, too many more are not. Is it heroic, for instance, for ex-military personnel to come forward and alert the public that those UFOs which governments so stringently deny are actually, from their own perspective and observation, intelligently controlled objects sired by amazing sources unknown, even when such admissions may questionably violate security oaths they took years ago?

Make no mistake, Chop echoed the UFO opinions of many in the government, though being far too modest and careful to specify more than "some of the personnel" in his letter, at this time when freedom of official speech glowed refreshingly tangible in specific instances. "Some of the personnel," hardly a reference to office folks standing around a water cooler, meant high-ranking military people, engineers and scientists, and there were many standing silently on Chop's side of the philosophical aisle.


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posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 04:52 PM
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Great thread. There was also some concern that Keyhoe was being fed classified information concerning UFOs from unknown sources. I'm working on a theory that both Keyhoe and Chop and the whole NICAP organization might have been a CIA operation. The CIA was very much interested in the Greene-Rouse film 'UFO'



posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 08:50 PM
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FlyingTeacup

I'm working on a theory that both Keyhoe and Chop and the whole NICAP organization might have been a CIA operation.


FlyingTeacup, have to say I've never heard that theory mate and it sounds like a pretty far out one to me -can you explain your reasoning behind it?

There's a thread here about the organization and it is possible the CIA may have infiltrated NICAP and taken it down from within by Colonel Joseph Bryan III (founder and head of the CIA's psychological warfare division) but that's about it -I think given the way the CIA has conducted itself over the years the last thing they'd want to front is an active UFO investigative committee who periodically exposed manipulated USAF statistics and showed the general public just how ludicrous some of the official government UFO explanations actually are (let's not forget the CIA did sponsor the Robertson Panel).


The Robertson Panel: UFOs and Ridicule.



By 1969, Keyhoe turned his focus away from the military and focused on the CIA as the source of the UFO cover up. By December 1969, NICAP's board, headed by Colonel Joseph Bryan III, forced Keyhoe to retire as NICAP chief. Bryan was actually a former covert CIA agent who had served as founder and head of the CIA's psychological warfare division. Under Bryan's leadership, NICAP disbanded its local and state affiliate groups.

How the Real NICAP began


Cheers.





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