83 y/o woman shot and killed by police...

Originally posted by borracho
Personally, I don't buy that she pointed her weapon at an officer. They say that in almost every case where someone was shot by the police. Sometimes they say that even though the victim had no weapon. The only witnesses were other officers, they will not rat out a fellow officer. Even if she did point her weapon at them, had they clearly identified themselves as officers? Of course they will say they did, but more and more the integrity of law enforcement is being called in to question by those that employ them, the general public. We have reached a state in this country where the people no longer have faith in their government or public officials and it is due to the behavior of those very same officials. The police would do well to remember that they have authority that is granted to them my the people that they serve. Their role used to be to serve and protect, yet they have no obligation to protect anyone. The system is broken.

If a lot more people knew that police are not legally compelled to help you there would be some major changes.

I really don't know how the originating 911 call went. I just cannot get it out of my head the idea that the 911 operator should have kept this woman on the line until help arrived. Like I have mentioned before, Altavista is not a huge city. Not Chicago or New York or LA. The 911 operator to me is the beginning of this whole debacle. Not only did she not keep this woman on the line, the 911 operator was also lax on gathering information. Another part that sticks in my mind was how was this call dispatched? The officers were warned of what exactly?

This whole thing stinks and like you, I am not so sure that the woman did point the weapon at police nor am I so sure she even raised her weapon at all. If the cops were following her and yelling at her repeatedly, would that not have attracted more attention from the nearby houses?

A small town trying to avoid a huge lawsuit is what I am beginning to see happening.

My standard post to these is yet another cop wins a all (taxpayer paid) expense trip to (fill in the blank)...

I am frankly sick of this though! And I am tired of the same old responses about yet another cop bashing thread.

If cops don't shoot first and ask questions later there would be none of these threads.

I have seen this happen time and time again and I have seen these guys get hired (unless they are convicted) by another agency (especially in my home town). Only to later have this problem occur again.

I am never one to defend police, review my posts and you'll see that.

That said the lady made a terrible mistake. First by shooting through a door without identifying the target first. You just don't fire a weapon blindly like that its a huge no no.

Second, calling the police after firing and instaed of waiting for them to repond to her home she walks out and wanders over to her sisters house. She should have found a safe place in her home and waited for the police to arrive. If she was frightened she should have stayed in her home. She knew the police were on their way.

Third, pointing the gun (if that really happened) at the police.

A tragic incident for sure, but the police cant be held totally at fault here, she made a few horrible mistakes as well.

Again, I'm never one to defend police but in this instance they are not totally at fault here.

I thought the general policy was "Freeze! Hands in the air!" not "BANG! Oops, thought you were a burglar in your robe and slippers."

I understand at least one officer will live with this for the rest of his life, but all the other officers better be re-trained, because it apparently wasn't enough the first time around - or however many times they trained.

Not only are the police now too quick to discharge their wepons without properly assessing the threat level, but they are also getting away with tasings and vicious beatings.

They are no longer serving and protecting, they now assume that everybody (other than their fellow police officers) is the enemy, and deserves whatever they can dish out.

Out here in the boonies, we don't call 911. Not only because they are physically unable to get out here in a timely manner, but we all know and accept the fact that, whatever needs to be done to protect our lives and property, we are the ones who will do it.

It is very telling that people who have to rely on their own defenses feel much safer than those who have to rely on the police.

Originally posted by becomingaware
I am never one to defend police, review my posts and you'll see that.

That said the lady made a terrible mistake. First by shooting through a door without identifying the target first. You just don't fire a weapon blindly like that its a huge no no.

Second, calling the police after firing and instaed of waiting for them to repond to her home she walks out and wanders over to her sisters house. She should have found a safe place in her home and waited for the police to arrive. If she was frightened she should have stayed in her home. She knew the police were on their way.

Third, pointing the gun (if that really happened) at the police.

A tragic incident for sure, but the police cant be held totally at fault here, she made a few horrible mistakes as well.

Again, I'm never one to defend police but in this instance they are not totally at fault here.

I agree with you 100%. Responding officers have very few details, other than someone is breaking into a home.

For all they knew, it WAS an elderly woman breaking into a home with a gun (not impossible). They arrive on scene, and shots are fired through the door. The see someone with a gun leave the home.

At this point, they don't know what's going on. It's possible that someone was just shot in the home, its possible the cops were baited into a suicide by cop situation. We just don't know. She most definately should have remained in her home until police arrived.

reply to post by RealSpoke

She may have shot through the back door, but they have no clue for sure who did.

Nor did the cops have a "clue" that she wouldn't shoot them. You don't either. She apparently had a handgun in her hand, and had already fired it. Old women can be just as dangerous as anyone else.

Cops suck.

ALL PEOPLE that JUMP to CONCLUSIONS without KNOWING the PARTICULARS of an incident SUCK! That includes you, many others in this thread, and possibly even the cops involved in this tragic incident.

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by bjarneorn

Pardon my french, but what kind of stupdig redneck, leaves an 83 year old woman with a handgun?

Oh, I don't know... At ninety years old, my Great Grandmother was still pretty damn good with handguns, shotguns, and rifles. Hell, my father spent 21 years in the Air Force, always qualified as a "Marksman", and she could out shoot him.

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by Terminal1


Citizens do not need gun control, but it is the law enforcement folks, who need to give up guns, and make this a safe place again. More die in these cop shoot-to-kill incidents than in those hidious massacres.

Originally posted by Terminal1
She did fire a shot out the back door before police arrived.

Her family is enraged being she was a church going woman...

Yes, bad cops are getting out of hand. Bad hiring and bad training.

Something is telling me we're not getting the whole story from this article. I suspect there is more to the story about her firing out the back door.

Also, what does "church going woman" have to do with it? I suppose it's okay to shoot if the person doesn't attend church?

All we have is the pigs' claim that she pointed the gun at them. Oh, and of course, his "brother" pigs as eyewitnesses. Yes. She was attacking them. THey had to "defend themselves". THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

Sound familiar?

What I wonder is, doesn't Granny have some, oh, I don't know, SONS? Or GRANDSONS? Who are mighty pissed off now? Why don't they DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

But they won't . They think "the system" will do something about it. But it won't. And they are apparently too spineless and afraid to do anything about it. So, the pigs will get some paid vacation, and a promotion, and the sons and grandsons can pay for Granny's funeral. For some reason they will just accept this, as everyone has in the THOUSANDS of recent incidents like this.

Let's say Granny had had an AK or an M16, and mowed down a bunch of pigs in her back yard. Would her explanation of "I thought they were threatening me," stand up in court? Her eyewitness account of how they didn't identify themselves as police officers, and were lurking around, dressed in black, in her back yard in the dark, and carrying guns, caused her to "fear for her life"and have to "defend herself"by unloading a few hundred rounds in their direction, would merely get her life in prison instead of execution. Instead, once again, the pigs get paid vacation.

Shoot, shovel, shut up. That's it.

Originally posted by CaptChaos
All we have is the pigs' claim that she pointed the gun at them. Oh, and of course, his "brother" pigs as eyewitnesses. Yes. She was attacking them. THey had to "defend themselves". THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

Sound familiar?

What I wonder is, doesn't Granny have some, oh, I don't know, SONS? Or GRANDSONS? Who are mighty pissed off now? Why don't they DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

But they won't . They think "the system" will do something about it. But it won't. And they are apparently too spineless and afraid to do anything about it. So, the pigs will get some paid vacation, and a promotion, and the sons and grandsons can pay for Granny's funeral. For some reason they will just accept this, as everyone has in the THOUSANDS of recent incidents like this.

Let's say Granny had had an AK or an M16, and mowed down a bunch of pigs in her back yard. Would her explanation of "I thought they were threatening me," stand up in court? Her eyewitness account of how they didn't identify themselves as police officers, and were lurking around, dressed in black, in her back yard in the dark, and carrying guns, caused her to "fear for her life"and have to "defend herself"by unloading a few hundred rounds in their direction, would merely get her life in prison instead of execution. Instead, once again, the pigs get paid vacation.

Shoot, shovel, shut up. That's it.

I'm curious what you're suggesting here. Do you think her family should just go in guns blazing and take out the cops? How many cops have you killed? I mean, clearly you're not a spineless coward, so I'm sure you've killed plenty of cops or at least kicked their ass for something...

reply to post by Terminal1

U-n-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e.:
shoot 1st & ask ?s later.

I'm from the area. I was just googling the news to see what people were saying.

She left her hearing aids and glasses on her night stand. So she couldn't see well or hear well when trying to go to her sister's house.

Her purse is also missing, which I means there WAS an intruder in the house... so she had every right to have a gun and fire it. She fired at the ceiling to try and scare him/her away.

Her sister who was HOLDING THE DOOR OPEN for her, as she was coming across the yard , saw the whole thing.. said the police did not say anything and just shot her in the back..

Also, how in the world could they shoot her in the back if she was pointing a gun them?

Originally posted by MewMeowMeow
I'm from the area. I was just googling the news to see what people were saying.

She left her hearing aids and glasses on her night stand. So she couldn't see well or hear well when trying to go to her sister's house.

Her purse is also missing, which I means there WAS an intruder in the house... so she had every right to have a gun and fire it. She fired at the ceiling to try and scare him/her away.

Her sister who was HOLDING THE DOOR OPEN for her, as she was coming across the yard , saw the whole thing.. said the police did not say anything and just shot her in the back..

Also, how in the world could they shoot her in the back if she was pointing a gun them?

Thank you for posting. I took your post with a grain of salt first off because you are new and your post here was the very first one. You did make me go to the local TV station website I frequent (WDBJ7) and look and the son does dispute what the police are reporting.

Except one thing... the shooting in the back. Can you please point to a link or something that says this? When I read the comments the feel I get is the defense of the cops.

Originally posted by Terminal1

Originally posted by MewMeowMeow
I'm from the area. I was just googling the news to see what people were saying.

She left her hearing aids and glasses on her night stand. So she couldn't see well or hear well when trying to go to her sister's house.

Her purse is also missing, which I means there WAS an intruder in the house... so she had every right to have a gun and fire it. She fired at the ceiling to try and scare him/her away.

Her sister who was HOLDING THE DOOR OPEN for her, as she was coming across the yard , saw the whole thing.. said the police did not say anything and just shot her in the back..

Also, how in the world could they shoot her in the back if she was pointing a gun them?

Thank you for posting. I took your post with a grain of salt first off because you are new and your post here was the very first one. You did make me go to the local TV station website I frequent (WDBJ7) and look and the son does dispute what the police are reporting.

Except one thing... the shooting in the back. Can you please point to a link or something that says this? When I read the comments the feel I get is the defense of the cops.

No link, just that is what her family has been saying.. small town!

Originally posted by Doodle19815

A spokeswoman from the Virginia State Police says Altavista Police Officers made several attempts to determine if anyone was inside Delma Towler's home and then heard shots fired from inside. Officers took cover and watched her leave the house with a gun in her hand. They followed her as she walked up to another home. They approached Towler, and commanded her repeatedly to put down her gun. Officers say she refused and pointed her weapon at them. She was then shot and died at the scene.

Update from the same source.

So they follow a scared elderly woman and shoot her. SHE IS FRIGHTENED! Back off and talk calmly to her. Jeesh.

When cops tell you to put your gun down you put your gun down. They were 100% right for shooting as she pointed a GUN at them. Does being 83 mean you won't shoot a gun? Apparently not since they already KNOW she fired it once. This is tragic, but I see no evidence the police dod anything wrong.

Originally posted by VikingWarlord
reply to post by thiefriverfalls

 

True, and I believe they should, at least, have had non lethal means of subduing a suspect in mind first. Instead they used "shoot first, ask questions later."

So what non lethal means do you use to someone pointing a gun at you refusing to put it down?

Originally posted by Terminal1
I find it very hard to believe that this woman, even if armed was a threat that required the use of lethal force.

I know, it's not like she would have fired the weapon. I mean especially not through a door where she had no idea who was behind it.

Your belief does not match the facts.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Do they just shoot and kill robbers now? Don't they have to be in immediate danger in order to shoot them?

She may have shot through the back door, but they have no clue for sure who did.

Cops suck.

When does immediate danger begin, does she have to kill a few cops first? Apparently pointing a gun at them is no danger according to you.