The Accusations Are True ATS - I Do Have An Agenda And I Have Been Manipulating You! My Confession.

Great thread OP. Understanding manipulation is step 1. Step 2 is the life-long process of quieting mind & reclaiming control of the mind/body machine from ego wirings so it can learn to trust the ego-less observer.

While manipulation of the programs we operate from without knowing it is one thing to be aware of (the only thing for those just discovering this in their own mirror/lenses), the next stage of human understanding is shedding all labels, judgments & beliefs in order to allow for a conscious deleting of old programs, in some cases wiping the hard-drive (mind-emotion wirings), and re-programming consciously. The creation machine has been hijacked by belief-manipulators who both wittingly & unwittingly program others (parents, society, culture). We pass down an ego-based teaching structure where we should be teaching the understanding of emotional wiring, the thinking mind that thinks it runs things, and all of the inputs we face daily.

In this society I would argue that the human creation machine is under a 24/7 denial-of-service attack on all fronts. I've written a ton on this and each day of learning & observation continues to confirm these things.

Yes, we can fear the fact there are manipulators, but as stated in the OP via pictures, you must be able to look at them without reaction. The emotional reaction is the indicator on the car that tells you the oil pressure is too low, or whatever. It's an indicator to a wiring. Given the chance, the observer can create a tiny space between stimulus and reaction and consciously choose an action or non-action. This power is so great that it brings one to perfect presence and the ability to create and manifest their world. It arises out of presence and trusting and acceptance of "what is". As the ego learns to trust this new-comer observer, it will over time begin to acquiesce to it as it finds it doesn't have the need to expend so much energy on protecting programs and wirings.

This site is riddled with fear & loathing. Step back from it and realize that your thoughts & intents flesh out your world. As long as people participate in the duality, they will continually feed it and allow it to continue. Those who find the peace of this path tend to check out. Most have no understanding or willingness to confront their belief-based programming.

It's like using DOS 1.0. Then try to lay on the latest Linux. You can't. Crashes, hardware incompatibilities, etc. You have to understand that the old programs and operating systems must be deleted. Only then can the new systems be installed and utilized. The old beliefs must be destroyed before new programs of understanding can be accepted by the machine. The creation machine only wants to follow instructions. "I am fat" leads the creation machine to do everything the universe will allow to fulfill this instruction. Layer it with, "I will diet and get thin." Often it will not work, simply because the old operating system is still under the impression it is fat. This is why diets often whipsaw people into binge/starve/binge/starve as the thinking mind can't figure out why the hell the machine isn't working right. The thinking mind needs to come out of the equation until it can be used in it's most optimal function -- creating intent for the purpose of learning, experience & creation.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by fnpmitchreturns

 

If I really disliked heff, I would never read any of his threads
until one day I could posts, HAH!!! Got you!!!!!
In one

have fun Heff, your x-wife still loves you because your the gift that kept on giving!

so, you aren't a troll unless you admit it? HA HA HA

time for your meds c-u later

interesting thread...this is life..manipulation, its done all the time..some are very easy to manipulate..others not so much. we see it everyday..at work, school, driving, social interaction, news, politics, business ect ect. the more 'authoratative' one speaks or..writes..the more it seems to solicit a response..it does not matter if there is emotion or facts in the 'authoritative' delivery. one must not only be confident in what one is saying but state it logicaly and with the expectation that, it doesnt matter if what is said is right or wrong, but that it will demand a mental, verbal response..for or against or neutral .....regardless if it is said/thought of now...might happen later. that said, is presenting ANY response showing that one is being manipulated? in any situation, in any thought there are always opposing views competing for expression..it is finding your own harmony in your own views that leads to a level where you are aware of the manipulation. some posters seem upset that the OP as insinuated that THEY can be manipulated......we all are manipulated every-single-day, even the OP.


know yourself, know your own opinion..this is a much larger statement than the 6 words presented and is the begining of the journey.

now i will follow the rest of the lemmings off the cliff

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns

While I know SOME people lie everyday... others DON'T

Horse pucky. Even the most trustworthy will lie to some extent. A lie of omission is still a lie, the little white lie one tells from time to time to 'save face' is still a lie. To make the assumption that some people do not lie is a subtle manipulation of your view of them, by them, in some form or another. It is human nature to tell the occasional lie and you well know that and the fact that their occasional lie goes undetected by you means that their manipulation skills are superb.

I understand what you claim but once any person tries to manipulate me by using my good nature and trust I toss them to the side in a pile of garbage that used to be people I knew or knew.....

Then the number of folks you surround yourself with must be very small. Do you not see that parents use this tactic all the time when bringing up their children? "If you clean your room then we can go get ice cream after dinner". Do you see that subtle manipulation of behavior to be molded into actions that fit more in line with the mindset of the parent's expectation?

Have you never debated someone on a topic you feel passionate about? Is not debate a means of manipulating your side of an issue in a way to win someone over to your way of thinking? To present the 'facts' as you see them in direct response to what you see as possible flawed judgement of another is a form of manipulation.... and it goes on all day everyday.

How would we really know if you lied? Your apparent claim and need for psychiatric help or need to work all goes in the trash bin to me......

And to reverse this, how do we really know that you have not lied at some point? Do you not see that at some point you, or any of us for that matter, could possibly be accused of passing on a lie as fact? The debate example above expresses this possibility nicely.

Have you tried politics? I hear in Georgia there are plenty of sheeple to be your fodder.....

I have been watching your threads and I haven't posted on many of them because over time people will prove who and what they are.... just like you have!

And the 2 statements above could also be seen as a means of manipulation, if you think about it. "I don't like what you have to say so I will try to shame you into changing your current actions to the way I believe you should be". See how this works?

Now, as for the negative responses in this thread thus far, I see them more as responses made out of fear. It's a scary thing to have someone point out to you (general term, meaning all of us) that you have been played, manipulated, been made to dance to a tune you would otherwise ignore. Now that we've admitted it, what do we do about it..... Well in my opinion, Heff has it right. Question everything.

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns


He could be one of those strangers handing out candy to children or he could be a priest ...

I was speaking of the pictures and yet another apparent attempt to manipulate a discussion... nothing more; nothing less...

Aren't those the same in one really?
Strangers hand out candy to children every year
its called halloween. Priest have molested children.
Both have manipulated children.
So has Jerry Sandusky but he is a coach.

So in context maybe heff could be a sports coach, or a Boy scout Leader.

Dont you guys get it, this thread is just another manipulation experiment and you all fell for it.

I ran the first part of your OP through this little program.

It says:
-the most influential keywords in the text are: manipulate agent base manipulation
-the most influential contexts in this text are:
1. manipulate manipulation strike effectively
2. agent base control opinion
3. including stark reality constantly
4. create subject gift discipline



Why did i do it, because you manipulated me to. Creative Agent?

Heff I have always enjoyed your threads and your perspective on certain topics.

However, do you not feel that this confession has effected your credibility hence forth? Will we not presume you have an angle your trying to work in future threads. Of course if this was your goal to be overly critical of not only your opinion, but everyone’s then bravo, this may have an effect.

Just a comment about a remark you made about developing a status of credibility and overall genuineness. Do you not feel that your position as a moderator gives you some level of credibility already? Dont get me wrong a good salesmen takes advantage of what he is given

Regards

reply to post by MDDoxs


I don't worry about my credibility regarding the folks who read the OP and the thread. The title was very much meant to incite interest. And the idea for the subject matter was born of the fact that I am frequently accused of being some sort of disinfo agent.

Over the years I've learned one thing - the core ATS membership is wise, thoughtful, and well informed. I believe that the folks who are here for the right reasons will get the intent and the seemingly self-deprecating thread title. It is not without precedent as a certain owner of the site once posted a similar thread called something like "ATS Is A Government Sponsored Disinfo Entity" and, at last check, Mr SO is still doing quite well.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Well i believe i may have understood your underlying message behind the thread. Look forward to future discussions.

Keeping an eye on you though

The very word manipulation is manipulating...

and all generalizations are bad.

I am a paradox.

reply to post by Hefficide


You claim to be manipulating us but in fact you have been manipulated. You are spending time on an internet site .. ... giving your time for free to 'moderate' a website in which you gain virtually nothing (economically speaking). So perhaps you are the one who has been manipulated. Oh man .. this is fun .... this could get deep ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


I would not consider source of information and social interaction as worthless. Just my opinion

reply to post by MDDoxs

I had financial gain in mind when I wrote that. I wasn't thinking social gain.
ETA .. I edited it so to be more clear.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You are spending time on an internet site .. ... giving your time for free to 'moderate' a website in which you gain virtually nothing (economically speaking).

I just wanted you to know that I stopped here in your confession...

I could claim to be a student working on a sociology thesis and change the discourse still – causing a mixed bag of reactions from anger to interest to a desire in some towards cooperation. to a desire in some towards cooperation.

I'll tell you why... I don't like you! Why should I have to constantly figure out who the hell is lying to me..manipulating me?? Why do I have to constantly for instants watch videos of say...Bigfoot and have to sit there trying to figure out...investigate if it's real or not? Why?

Why???????

You're lying to people...you take their trust and stomp on it!!!

A word of advice when trying to fool people...a Hoaxer in my state was killed trying to perpetrate a hoax of Bigfoot. 2 cars killed him. So be careful when lying, or hoaxing, or manipulating someone...it could lead to disastrous results...

Good topic and great replies !

Every single day, we are manipulated. One way or another.

Also, I would think that we are ALL manipulators. We all try to gain from others, to our benefit. We will manipulate for money, we will manipulate for recognition, we will manipulate for love. We will manipulate people into thinking like we do cause we have this basic need to be right.

Now, what the medias and corporations do is above that. They've become masters.

S&F for a thought provoking thread.

Originally posted by Bodhi911

Originally posted by Deetermined
Manipulation is a form of emotional defense in an attempt to convince ourselves that we're still sane when we fear that we are on the edge of insanity! LOL!!

Sanity is an interesting topic in itself as well.

Sanity (from Latin: sānitās) refers to the soundness, rationality and healthiness of the human mind, as opposed to insanity. A person is sane if he/she is rational.

Rationality It is a normative concept of reasoning in the sense that rational people should derive conclusions in a consistent way given the information at disposal.

This means that sanity is relative, not objective, because information at your disposal can be quite different compared to someone elses information, specially if you include intuition and personal experiences.

Are we off topic yet?

Just watch, it's my experience that the worst offenders of manipulation are those who start by sounding rational and quickly turn irrational when confronted or when they run out of reasoning to support their logic. I think this irrational behavior is some kind of defense mechanism to delude themselves. If they were to recognize or admit why they do what they do, they just might have a meltdown. The best way to make it "appear" that you're in control of your own life is by trying to control others first. This makes them only feel like they're in control when they are not. (self preservation) And it usually includes putting others down in the process.

Personally, it's my opinion that the OP did a fantastic job of trying to point out how psychology works, unfortunately, some people took it as a personal attack. People can blast me if they want, but I believe these people who looked at it as a personal attack are the ones that tend to be the master manipulators without even realizing it. I looked at all of the OP's "I" statements, as in "I do have an agenda" and "I have been manipulating you" as being a rhetorical device.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Hefficide

 

You claim to be manipulating us but in fact you have been manipulated. You are spending time on an internet site .. ... giving your time for free to 'moderate' a website in which you gain virtually nothing (economically speaking). So perhaps you are the one who has been manipulated.

Oh man .. this is fun .... this could get deep ...

edit on 9/20/2012 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

In point of fact, my intent was to point out that every single one of us both manipulates and are manipulated! From the highest powers, right down to the Wal Mart cashier who asks if you want the extended warranty on that new iPod. And even he or she is manipulated into asking the question in the first place!

If ATS does manipulate me by convincing me to moderate ( and let's be clear here folks, it's extremely fun most of the time - and unbelievably frustrating at other times ) then the manipulation is symbiotic and both ways because I love being here. Being here gives me something to do and a chance to express myself in ways that my current real life does not. Being broke is the quickest way to figure out who your friends weren't.

So, yes, I am manipulated. Quite frequently in fact. I help neighbors, family members, and just about anyone who asks - often fully aware that they are deliberately trying to take advantage of me. But I let them do so ( within reason ) because it is my moral choice to do so. I live giving. In essence, my desire for self-esteem leads me to manipulate myself into allowing myself to be manipulated...

Great. Now I've infinity looped my brain.... again.

Manipulation is not a bad thing. A wife who bats her eyes to get her hubby to take out the trash, with promises of "rewarding him" later? Pure manipulation that ends up being a positive.

A boss who manipulates, through pressure, an employee to work a bit harder because the boss knows the employee is being considered for a promotion, but cannot divulge that fact? Positive manipulation.

Tools are tools. My hope is simply to illustrate this particular one, and to help folks recognize it so that they can see when the tool is being misused.

~Heff