Originally posted by moniesisfun
A baby crying is not of nefarious intent. It just wants a basic need met, usually. It's a primitive form of communication.
Originally posted by ZiggyMojo
All previous engagements within this thread aside.. I still found the OP very interesting and I found a lot of value in the exchanges I have had within. My apologies to anyone who thought I was in a pissing contest. It was not my intention to change anyone's mind, but rather explain the best I could.. My take on the whole thing. Perhaps I over-analyzed.. I don't know. I feel its a topic that has a lot more depth than what you see on the surface. I may have completely misunderstood Heff's intention.. or maybe understood part of it. Regardless, I feel this is a discussion that holds merit.
As I stated earlier. Sometimes the full potential of something isn't realized by its creator. (In this case I think it was)
These sort of topics lend themselves to expansion and I think it's our duty as members of this forum to explore all of the perspectives we can.edit on 21-9-2012 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)edit on 21-9-2012 by ZiggyMojo because: spelling
Originally posted by Hefficide
Over 500 posts and 26 pages in. This is probably a good time to address several points and to answer several questions posed, thus far, in this thread.
First of all, the divisive and provocative thread title. I did deliberately try to create a provocative title for this thread for several reasons. One, this is ATS and many interesting threads die unsung deaths simply because they were titled in a boring manner. Secondly, since the thread is about visceral emotional reaction due to manipulation ( stimulation ) it seemed to fit. And, lastly, it organically felt like the right title as my OP was being written. It is not the title I actually had in mind when I began writing the OP in my word processing program.
As of now I am torn as to whether or not choosing the title was wise. On the one hand it landed me much more flame and vitriol than I expected or was personally in a position to cope with at this point in time. On the other hand, it proved the thesis of my OP more profoundly than I would have ever imagined. Many members seemingly posted based upon the title, and nothing else - and did so in a highly aggressive and vicious manner.
Other members took offense to the concept of the OP and voiced their opinions in a variety of ways. Many were civil, others were not. The criticisms were varied and covered many different points of view. Some said that they will never believe me, ever again. Others called my ATS moderator status into question. Some felt I was speaking down to them. Others that I possessed the literary skills of a second grader. Other opinions were voiced, but from my reading, the ones listed seem to be the "top hits" - so I feel comfortable listing those.
Motives being called into question is the one area of this that I was actually prepared to address - and this aspect did play into the way I structured my OP. I wanted my motives to be questioned. In fact I wanted to use that as a springboard to say "Why stop there? Why not question the motives of EVERY person who you recognize as manipulating you?" We all know it is a daily phenomenon. US politics serve as a great example. Every day, here on ATS, there are dozens of "Romney said this" and "Obama said that" threads. But in these threads most people don't seem to want to know why a thing was said - they merely want to react to it.
So I made a thread designed to demonstrate how reaction overpowers reason. I could have spent weeks trying to encode NLP techniques, or subliminals into it. I could have gone overboard and really paid attention to known buzz words. As it happens I did not do these things. I invested about an hour of my life into making this OP - a large chunk of that time spent finding, downloading, and then uploading images.
I knew I would get some heat. But I had no clue it would be So much heat.
So to answer the most frequently asked question so far... The threat title....
I do have an agenda: To try and share my ideas in open forum and to spark debate about those ideas - be they right/wrong/insightful/inane/ect.
And as for the "I have been manipulating you" part? Well, as has been stated by myself and many others in the thread... the statement is simply commentary upon the fact that we all manipulate one another, and ourselves, all day long, every day. It is the very crux of social interaction - and it can be used for very nefarious and widespread purposes.
Think about this. This thread is on the front page currently, as well as the "top topics" page. It also, earlier, was the sole thread listed on the forums page. A thread, on ATS, that is not about politics, an event, religion, terrorism, UFO's, bigfoot, or the latest earthquake in any given spot in the world made it to the front page. A thread about an idea, a simple idea with broad sweeping implications, cut through the usual day to day distraction and got noticed and actively engaged in.
How often does that happen?
Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by Advantage
If I may: You are one sharp cookie. Funny how some folk seem to hide from you here and all of a sudden they start catching your attention all over the place.
I'm surprised too--although I shouldn't be--at how many of our brothers and sisters here just didn't get it. It means, I fear, that the manipulation of minds has been wildly successful.
Heff: This thread is like a roller coaster, you have to be THIS tall to ride. Shorties had to sit it out and managed only to gripe about it.
edit on 21-9-2012 by The GUT because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Bodhi911
My soul hurts when I see you get attacked on a personal level in a vicious manner. Other members have also reacted to the kind of viciousness that has taken place here. Its difficult to watch and difficult to experience.
I have hade some experiences in my life where I wanted to commit suicide because of the behavior of other people. Without a few good friends, I would not be here today. So I ask the people who do these things to think about that.
edit on 22-9-2012 by Bodhi911 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Hecate666
Not only did you miss the entire point of the OP, thread, and my posts within it, but you also demonstrated an extreme lack of basic social skills and a predisposition towards baseless assumption.
And all I did was write a fairly lighthearted thread about media manipulation.
But I am happy that I served to help you get a bit of that misdirected anger out of your soul. Hopefully it will aid you in future social interactions. Consider it my daily good deed.
I also find it very very interesting that when I mentioned decorum, civility, and the T&C to someone.. they accused me of being Skeptic. I dont have to be a board owner or some ( to them anyway) scary, removed, and mysterious powerful authority figure to not want the content of something I enjoy to devolve into GLP gutterishness. How very bizarre...
Also - as mentioned painstakingly and repetitively, this thread as nothing to do with MY ability to manipulate
Part of those accusations are very much true. I have been manipulating you, good citizens of ATS. I have been doing so willfully, deliberately, and with an agenda. I have been using decades of very specific training and research to achieve my goals in this endeavor and have been largely successful in my labors. I am guilty as charged. I am a manipulator.
Heck, even my confession to manipulating is, quite literally, a manipulation in and of itself. I can, at will, use it to create any number of narratives and to illicit any number of predictable and controllable responses. Any expert will tell you that sympathy is one of the most powerful tools of manipulation that exist. It can be used quite effectively and powerfully to alter perception and opinion almost instantly. For example:
But I have an edge on most of them. I'm good at it. I have that natural gift... the ability to connect and to create trust and empathy with just a smile or with eye contact.
This is how I learned my skills – and how I have gained my expertise. By being a people person. And, in past years. By using it to be predatory and opportunistic. Maybe these are just personal, lesser manipulations as I work on my larger manipulations. One could fry a few brain cells keeping track.
Are you afraid yet? Are you beginning to question it all yet? Good. Now as to whether or not you should fear me. I leave that up to you.
And maybe offer a word of thanks to the cranky old ATS moderator who clued you in on a few of the tricks of the trade.
A person who began a dialougue with the words “I am writing these words to manipulate you. I tell you this up front and with no shame...” Just showed you in a very simple, and uncomplicated manner, how easy it is to do. I did this as a concerned and caring member of your community.