The Accusations Are True ATS - I Do Have An Agenda And I Have Been Manipulating You! My Confession.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


That moral vacuum and "on and off switch" was very much a part of my younger life. The cure for it came when I became a parent. That one event forced me to analyze my own, horrible childhood, and to resolve to provide a better example for my own kids.

I saw it as a generational curse and swore to end that curse with me and not pass it along.

~Heff

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Don't be so sure that you can't be manipulated. The simple action of posting a response is proof that you can be.

"Manipulation" is not a negative thing, it has just received a negative stigma over the years because a few sorry souls couldn't stand that someone or something influenced them to do something that they didn't intend to do, or that society didn't accept.

You're young, and so am I. I'm only 24, but you're in a crucial time of understanding. Clarity can happen out of nowhere, but if you can get a grip on these sort of truths now, you'll be miles ahead as you grow older. The word "can't" will become less and less real the more you understand fundamental truths.

Stay on the path!

reply to post by Hefficide


It's funny... it seems like a good deal of your problems vanished when you became a parent. I'm kind of flashing back to the "Don't sell out to society and get a crappy job" thread from a while back. Is being a parent so amazing? I honestly wouldn't know... I've thought about having kids, but not for a few years at least.

Some times I wish something extreme and off-the-wall would happen, so I'd be forced to care about things more, because I can't seem to make myself care by myself. I suppose that off-the-wall thing for you was becoming a parent? My mum explains it the same way. It's annoying when she feeds me the "You can never understand because you're not a parent" stuff, but I think I get it on some small level...

ANY who, thanks for the reply

reply to post by ZiggyMojo


Wouldn't it be just as easy to construct a thread in a way so that you anticipate that people like me, who aren't easily manipulated, would think to themselves... "Hmmm. If I respond to this thread, I'm being manipulated. I don't think I'll respond."

A manipulator can be coming from any angle when they do or say anything. They could have been manipulating people like me into not responding, while they manipulate other people into responding with their opinions and feelings.

I responded because I had a genuine question about manipulating certain people who have an apathetic disposition. Being one of those people, I have forgotten to care what others think of me--including in this scenario, when other posters can read my posts and think "Ha, she thinks she can't be manipulated, but she was tricked into replying... hahaha."

Every action that someone responding to this thread takes is not a predetermined reaction. Some of them probrably are. Which ones? Only God, the manipulator, and another skilled manipulator watching from behind the curtains can know.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Your mom was right!

Once you become a parent, you become a protector of something you love dearly, and that is totally innocent and unable to protect itself. It also looks at you as if you were Superman. So... you become Superman.

It's hard to explain, but it's the truth.

~Heff

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


I'm not laughing at you.. You didn't come off arrogantly like so many others.

You already have the answer in the response you just made. Its not a matter of whether or not you can or can't be. All of us can be, and are. The point is that everything you do and the person that you are is a product of manipulation. It may not have been intentional manipulation, but you have been manipulated into everything you have ever done. Something does not have to have a predetermined outcome in order to be manipulated.

Your mind is conditioned with everything it experiences and produces. I am a manipulator, you are a manipulator and everyone you have ever met is. Action or lack thereof is manipulation; for either one of them will influence something else and both are also creations of prior influence. See it as a whole. It may sound rudimentary and silly but it is essential to understand if you mean to accept the truths of our reality. Understanding that you are manipulated every second of your life is not an exaggeration. It is true even of the breaths that you take.

I disagree with this thread completely. It seems to be poorly written and includes alot of conjecture. I believe alot of stars and flags have been added somehow to make it onto the front page. I have seen a couple goods threads written from Hefficide, but this one certainly is not, could you tell me the purpose for writing this thread Heff?

reply to post by Hefficide


Karma's a beeyotch.

I for one would like to say that I did not take this at face value. What IMHO of course was that Heff was trying to make an extremely valid point on how people are easily manipulated, as it has shown here.

Even the most egotistical person will keep their powers of persuasion quiet. If Heff was being serious, we would be the last people to hear about it, unless Heff made it to the papers for causing another kool aid drinking incident.

He used a few key phrases and allowed most to take their own egos and add them to their posts. If you want to see the real ego maniacs go back through the 17 pages, there are quite a few.


Kudos for proving your point. On a personal note, I am glad your back and sharing threads like this!! Oh yeah... Star and Flag!!

Peace, NRE.

Excellent thread Heff!

Although I've always found this information to be interesting on the macrosocial level, when taken to the microsocial level, it's infuriating. Whether we're demonstrating compassion, companionship or cooperation toward our fellow man, we would not be doing any of it if it didn't directly benefit us, even if the only benefit is to show that image in the mirror in a better light, allowing one more thin escape from cognitive dissonance. It would seem that our best characteristics simply evolved to procure our own survival. Really fried my wonton...

But Bernays was still the scariest man ever born. And I'll win every debate that statement invites.

reply to post by davidsander

Originally posted by davidsander
I disagree with this thread completely.

And you have every right to that opinion.

Originally posted by davidsander

It seems to be poorly written and includes alot of conjecture..

Critique of my writing skills ( or lack thereof ) notwithstanding, This is ATS and engaging in conjecture based upon fact or theory is not only commonplace - it's mostly what the site is for,

Originally posted by davidsander

I believe alot of stars and flags have been added somehow to make it onto the front page.

Beliefs and facts are not the same thing. No such policy of "pushing" certain threads exist. I, for example, as a moderator can star and flag each thread/post only once. A moderator does provide 2 stars each time we star a post - but only one of them goes towards the members star count total.

The fact of the matter is the flags and stars on my post were put there by members, just like you.

Originally posted by davidsander

I have seen a couple goods threads written from Hefficide, but this one certainly is not, could you tell me the purpose for writing this thread Heff?

I felt a desire to address this particular subject - one that is thematically in keeping with my normal thread subject areas. If it's not to your liking? That is fine. I don't expect everything I write, do, or create, to please everyone. I expect critics each and every time - and accept their input willingly - as long as that input is stated civilly and not just a blatant ad hom sort of insult attack. Proper critique is always welcomed and taken into consideration.

~Heff

reply to post by Anonymous54321


I'll let karma know that you delivered her message. She's a dancer at a club in Atlanta who I lunch with on every other Thursday.

~Heff

Heff, I don't really have the attention span (or energy for that matter) to read 17 pages, but I did browse through. Kudos! my friend on evoking an emotion from almost every facet of ATS. I was hooked into looking because your post has been up for days on the top of the new forums page. If you have manipulated me, I forgive you ( if thats what you want). Ultimately I hold myself responsible for my decisions, not you. This is in no way meant to belittle you, I enjoy reading a well put together post and you do that successfully, thank you and keep up the good work.

Manipulation seems to be the big "four" letter word. Not all manipulation is bad. Some things are in your best interest to be manipulated into if one wants to be successful and happy. In some cases being manipulated means living another day, and that too can be a good thing.

I am reminded of Sun Tzu manipulating the women into being good soldiers. He basically made the challenge to the Emperor that he could make anyone or any group a great soldier. So, a bunch of pampered young women were brought out and this group included the very pampered princess. When Sun Tzu gave an order the women ignored him and the Emperor thought he has won the argument. Sun Tzu went over and killed the princess. The next order he gave garnered complete compliance. He manipulated them into doing as they were told. Now, granted, they did not ask to be soldiers and one could argue that was wrong to conscript them into this activity. I will simply point out that by complying they lived through the experience and that might be a valid option. Some things are worth dying for, and some things just are not.

Is it wrong to train your children? Is it better to have them enjoy their lessons and earn something in return for learning? That's all manipulation. It's a parents job to raise their child and prepare them to function in their environment. So, behavior modification techniques are employed. Some use the simple hammer and nail approach. Others use the carrot and stick approach. I use a blended approach and do not use violence. I believe we all manipulate via our debates. We seek to present our facts to persuade others to see things as we see them. It's very difficult to remain detached all the time and respond rather than react. The truth is 99% of the population is reactionary. We can all become reactionary, but not very many people today are truly thinking things through, and this thread allows for us to discuss the understanding of manipulation and emotional thinking. I will also say that most people who claim to not being manipulated are probably the most indoctrinated sorts I have ever come across. They think they have it all down, and their own ego is so active they actually believe the world they live in is just as they see it, when it's my experience that nothing is as it seems, and as the OP says, "Question everything".

So heff, I see 16 pages in and still going strong....

This must be a true labor of love for you to keep up with this thread. Did you realize that you were opening pandoras box with this one?

I think that is why I gave up writing my own threads....first I'm not a great writer, secondly, I am not responsible enough to keep up with them.

I think you were very smart to put your thread in the right forum, I am pretty sure that alone protects you from any "T&C" violations.

I must admit when I first read your post, I was a bit freaked out, I felt a bit "taken" by you.....you seemed so nice on the forum....lalalalala....why would you do something like that?

But then after awhile of thinking about it, I was like "hey....wait a minute.....here is a guy telling me he is manipulating me and everyone one else on ATS.....why if he were really doing this, would he admit to it?

Would someone who manipulates so much, feel a genuine need to confess? What would be the point of the confession? Then I went off on the tangent of how do I know his intentions? Then I thought, here is a guy, I know next to nothing about, and he is telling me he suffers from serious mental illness....how do I know he isn't just crazy? Should I believe something a crazy person says? How do I know if he is really mentally ill? If he is really mentally ill, is that a valid reason not to trust him? How can I believe anything in that OP? Why should I? Because he says it's a confession? Why should I trust the confession of an admitted "manipulator"? Isn't a confession of manipulation, from some who manipulates an oxymoron? Isnt a confession of manipulation just a potential other form of manipulation? Isn't that alone a reason to question everything? Then my mind slipped into the absurdity of it all....

a million thoughts, red flags, possibilities and questions began churning around......that was when it clicked and I realized that was the point of your thread. You laid it all out quite simply. The point was for me to not take anything at face value....including your OP. I realized my initial emotional response of being hurt was the response you were possibly going for.....to get that emotional reaction from ATSers. (You spelled it out quite clearly in the OP)To show how easy it is to be lead astray or to react and lash out based on emotion, when really what people should be doing is questioning the source and questioning the motivations of the source.

The paradox was you were being truthful, you were (potentially) manipulating us to get an emotional response by being honest about manipulation. You were being truthful by clearly stating that emotions cause people to lose sight of the underlying message, that emotional responses cloud logic. You also stated that we should question everything.....by everything you meant EVERYTHING---Including your own OP. This shows how lies and truth are wrapped around each other so tightly it is possible even a liar is honest, and even an honest person is a liar....

Desconstructing disinformation. It was crystal clear to me.

Now, I have no clue if that really was the intention of your OP or not( I am not in your head, after all) ......but that is what I got out of it, so despite what your intentions were, now you see the result your thread had on me. It was a reminder of the the heart of conspiracy theory....to truly question everything.

reply to post by Hefficide


You didn't Mind Control my Bowel Movements did you?

reply to post by Boomer1941


Nope, but I bet Madison Ave mind controlled you about which toilet paper product to purchase and which Air Freshener to use.



~Heff

Mind Control
Doesn't work on us. We fit no where in this illusion.

Neither do spells, curses, assignments, bindings, groupthink mentality or technologies no matter how complex.

reply to post by Hefficide


That did not spark any emotions, maybe it made me crave a Budweiser and a side of vixen.
That's just called advertising. Nothing extraordinary about that. We're all desensitized post-911 to get emotional about the rest of the pictures. That kind of thing only works on the slim few who don't sit in front of a pc or tv all day.

Maybe if you would've inserted a picture of Jesus and Buddha kissing, you would've manipulated the rest of the world into acting stupid, violent, irrational, and destructive; but then again they all would probably have just giggled, even the Pope and Llama.