The identity of Jesus' wife is..

reply to post by MeesterB


Jesus said you must be born again to get into heaven, heaven is the universe as a whole, that is a direct reference to reincarnation, so is him saying he is the resurrection. That is what he said, whether people choose to interpret it my way or the churches way is their choice, but I believe my way is the logical one and I would hope others would think so too.

Funny how you say reincarnation is unbiblical yet ignore the fact that what Jesus said lines up with reincarnation perfectly. the phrase "born again" and the word resurrection both apply to reincarnation.

The whole thing about getting into heaven by believing you get salvation through faith is church-made not Christ-made. That is a prison cell they put you into and if you step too far outside of that prison cell you are shocked and you run back in.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No, born again means born of the Spirit. Our first birth is of flesh/water.

I see you still haven't read what Jesus said in John 6.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


John 3:1-8

Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesusa by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘Youd must be born again.’ The winde blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

Jesus is pretty clear here that being "born again" isn't to be born of the flesh a second time. "the Spirit" referenced here is the Spirit of God, the helper God sends to those he seals for himself.

You can also see that Jesus himself said " the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life." Definitely seems like Jesus is providing salvation through faith in his resurrection.

You think you are being logical, but you are interpreting things through your own biases, just as you accuse me of doing. There will be a resurrection of the dead for all to be judged, so if that's your interpretation of reincarnation then so be it. Just one question though, what will you say to the creator when he holds you accountable for your life?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Is this the verse you are referring to?

John 6:29
Jesus answered, "The work of god is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

I believe in who he is just as a believe in who I am. That is the way he means in my interpretation. We are all one, just different aspects of the one. The "one" is your god, your god is yourself just as Jesus was god.

We are all the spirit, the whole-y spirit. The spirit is consciousness which is the whole that Jesus calls Father, in my opinion.

Or are you referring to the section on cannibalism? If we had to eat his flesh and drink his blood to get into heaven we'd all be screwed because Jesus is dead.

To point out a contradiction from that section, first he says this:

John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day

Then goes on to say:

John 6:63
The spirit gives life the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you -- they are full of the Spirit and life

So does the flesh count or not? Is the Spirit what gives life, or the flesh of Jesus that counts for nothing?

We are all born of water and spirit. Our spirit is what is letting us experience our lives, it is consciousness itself. We are all conscious and we all have eternal life because consciousness will always exist.

Being born of water is your mothers water, or the amniotic fluid. What is the last thing that happens before a woman goes into labor? Her water breaks. Her water gives birth to the spirit of a baby.

We are all born again of water and Spirit.

reply to post by MeesterB


Did you miss the part right before that that mentions Moses lifting a "serpent" in the air? What was Satan inside the Garden of Eden? A snake/serpent.

Moses was the inspiration to the Old Testament, his story is the story of Satan, the serpent. He lifted the serpent just as Paul and the church lifted up Jesus. The New Testament is an extension of the Old Testament, which means its serpent is the churches version of Jesus, which Paul created after he had his oh so convenient vision.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


If I recall correctly you belive that Paul was forced by the Romans to write his letters in such a way to compromise Jesus and introduce a sytem of made up rules that would help the Roman Government capitalize on the week minded believers to keep them in line.

I understand that, don't agree, but I'm Im not clear on your view of the rest of the bible. Do you think the entire bible is forged, or just Paul's writings?






.

reply to post by Observationalist


I believe the Romans have changed the story of the gospels here and there by adding sun worship themes to the story, like John 8:12 and the miracles he supposedly performed. Those two things stick out the most to me.

Paul comes in after killing followers of Jesus and gets a vision from Jesus telling him of things he never said before or after his crucifixion. The problem there is that only Paul knows whether he is telling the truth because he is the only one to have seen the vision.

Everything that Paul wrote is corrupt because his whole intention was to make stuff up to begin with. His writings and story of conversion reek of Roman interference. Paul was working for the Romans, whether by force or not I don't know.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That's what I am talking about. And "believe upon" means "trust/rely upon" in today's vernacular. Example, I can believe a chair will support my weight, but I don't demonstrate that faith until I sit on it and rely on the chair to hold me.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


A serpent is the Levitical symbol for sin. Brass is the Levitical symbol for judgment. So what that was to show the people was when sin was lifted up on a pole and judged all who were bitten and going to die because of sin would live and be redeemed. It pointed to Christ. All people who sinned need to look upon Christ, who had all our sin placed on Him and when He was judged/crushed because of our sin we would be pardoned or in other words given eternal life. The day of atonement sacrifice is also a perfect picture of Christ as is the Passover one.

Everything from cover to cover points to Him

reply to post by MeesterB

The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

This is all you need to know, right there. This is proof that Jesus believed that the soul is self determined and immortal. Therefore, it existed before birth and will exist after death. We all have eternal life because we are all spiritual beings.

Knowing the Christ that is "the way" etched on our souls, is the way within that Jesus referred to. For the Kingdom of God is within you.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


If that is the way you choose to interpret it then more power to you, but my interpretation is not as convoluted and makes more sense in my opinion.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So me believing what he says in a different way than you earns me a ticket to hell? Give me a break!

reply to post by windword


I'm not denying that the spirit is eternal. However, I contend that each person dies in the flesh once and then his/her spirit is judged and this is the second death because no one is safe under the law. We are all sinners. I know I am.

How to avoid the second death:
Revelations 2:11

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’

Revelations 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The spirit is eternal, but God is just and there will be a day of judgement. I don't know about you, but I've been a terrible person. Name a sin and I've either committed it or desired it in my heart.


Romans 8:37-39

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hebrews 9:25-28

Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

God offers to cover me so that I might be saved. It's a glorious gift. If you want to believe that you are a free spirit to continue on without answering for the life you have lived, so be it. You better be right though.

reply to post by MeesterB


The lake of fire is here on Earth, we are living the second death right now. We are so caught up in the material world and too busy working in order to make money that has no real value that we are not really "living", we are just going through the motions that have been set up for us all while those running the show are billionaires without a worry in the world.

The whole thing is rigged and we are their slaves and the more we work, the richer they get.

Religion only adds to this problem because it teaches us that there is something better after this life and that teaches people to be okay with barely scraping by or struggling because they believe.

We are in hell right now and Earth is what John was speaking of when he said the lake of fire.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I don't think you are right for several reasons.
1) I haven't died
2) I haven't been judged
3) Life can be really awesome. Ever had sex? It's pretty awesome.
4) I'm going to die

I could go on buuut.... yeah. I think it's an incredible stretch of the imagination to think we are currently in hell.

reply to post by MeesterB


Your listening to the ramblings and philosophy of Paul. Also, the vision of John and his "Revelation" is NOT the word of Jesus, and can be argued metaphorically.

Who are you going to believe?

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24

reply to post by windword


Thankyou for making me go back and look at it again.

Sorry for the long quote, but it is all pertinent.
John 12:20-50

Now among those who went up to worship at the feast were some Greeks. So these came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and asked him, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” Philip went and told Andrew; Andrew and Philip went and told Jesus. And Jesus answered them, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.

“Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I have come to this hour. Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine. Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. So the crowd answered him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of Man?” So Jesus said to them, “The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.”

When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them. Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said, “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.” Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.

And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

Make of that what you will. If I have said anything outside of that then it's my own mistake, but I'm pretty sure what I have said falls in line with that.

Edit: order issue

Extra post...
disregard.

reply to post by MeesterB


So having sex makes up for all the evil that goes on in this world? I don't think so.

Banks constantly steal money from others and steal from people in order to profit, everybody else be damned. They also buy the political processes and politicians in order to keep the winnings on their side.

Governments lie to the people every day and fight wars based off of lies and even create false flags within their own countries in order to fight these wars. Militaries bomb cities and kill innocent civilians daily in the middle east.

Atom bombs were dropped on Japan and the areas where they were dropped are still Inhospitable to this day and the people living in the area have been giving birth to mutated babies as well.

Thousands die every day from starvation, our food crops are sprayed with deadly chemicals, our water supply is tainted by fluoride, nothing seems to be healthy anymore. Corners are cut in order to maximize profits even at the expense of the consumers health.

Tell me again how it's a stretch to think this is hell? This is the closest thing to hell you will ever find. I believe you are the one stretching it by saying hell is a place where you burn for eternity. That concept doesn't even fit in with your version of a loving and forgiving god.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Okay, I'll be more precise.

I know I'm not in hell because I can still know God. Hell isn't just burning in fire or being poked by the devil, it's complete separation from God. That's why Hell is so bad.