Historical Evidence of modern day CHRISTIANITY being PAGAN!

Originally posted by babybunnies
And you also need to look at how close the expression "Son of God" is to "Sun God"

The "Sun God" was widely worshipped around the world in many Pagan societies.

Has nothing to do with the Son of God who is the Heir to the White Throne, his Light is not the literal Light, it's spiritual light of righteousness. Nimrod did try to confound mankind by creating his own pagan cults where he was worshipped as the sungod (sometimes known as Sol Invictus, or Lord Krishna) but Yeshua is not a sungod, he is the only God, the Word, the Voice of God, his physical manifestation in this universe.

Originally posted by babybunnies
And you also need to look at how close the expression "Son of God" is to "Sun God"

The "Sun God" was widely worshipped around the world in many Pagan societies.

You might have a point if the words are similar in Hebrew or Koine Greek. The authors of the Bible didn't speak English.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by babybunnies
And you also need to look at how close the expression "Son of God" is to "Sun God"

The "Sun God" was widely worshipped around the world in many Pagan societies.

You might have a point if the words are similar in Hebrew or Koine Greek.

The authors of the Bible didn't speak English.

Not to mention the fact Jesus referred to himself as "The Son of Man" (completely blowing such a simple comparison away) because he knew what connotations it had in the Old Testament (which in his time was the NOW testament of the jews).

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by babybunnies
And you also need to look at how close the expression "Son of God" is to "Sun God"

The "Sun God" was widely worshipped around the world in many Pagan societies.

You might have a point if the words are similar in Hebrew or Koine Greek.

The authors of the Bible didn't speak English.

Not to mention the fact Jesus referred to himself as "The Son of Man" (completely blowing such a simple comparison away) because he knew what connotations it had in the Old Testament (which in his time was the NOW testament of the jews).

His favorite title, right from Daniel 7.

reply to post by ruthlesstruth


These are myths, rumors, lies and deceptions.

www.thedevineevidence.com...

www.biologos.org...

Set your mind free,

Deny ignorance,

Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, the Life and the Light.

God bless,

Amen

Originally posted by TarzanBeta

I know this particularly from experience because I was gifted with intelligence of a high caliber - so much so that no one could match my ability to imagine or figure anything.

You forgot to mention your amazing modesty along with your supreme intelligence. It shines like a beacon.

I guess this just shows that even self proclaimed geniuses can succumb to cult indoctrination practices and confuse fairy stories with reality. I doubt your mythical god will say anything at all, for the obvious reason that the whole thing is a crock of s.....

reply to post by ruthlesstruth

There is evidence to show that Jesus made use of the unique earth/sun/moon relationship in his Great Work of the cross ie: coinciding with a lunar eclipse, and that he therefore had access to astonomical/astrological data as a predictive tool, which in my mind reveals that in him and his work, paganism, which typically involves strong reverence for the divine order of creation, was summed up and capped off. Furthermore, the twelve tribes of Israel may symbolize the zodiacal signs of the precession of the equinox, where Christ's birth and great work corresponded with Virgo with the Virgin and Leo as the sign of Judah (lion) .

For more see the "Real Star of Bethlehem" series on Yoiutube.

The Day of the Cross
www.bethlehemstar.net...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

watch this Star of Bethlehem EXTRA

Which would mean....that when Abraham hauled Isaac up the mountain to sacrifice him, only to have his hand stayed by an angel of God, while a two-horned Ram was suddenly found nearby caught up in a ticket as an alternative, that that event prophecied this event.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


It's impossible for there to have been an eclipse, lol, think about what time of the month Passover falls upon and what phase of the moon would be in the sky.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

April 3rd, 33AD - lunar eclipse (blood red moon), verified. It's was the Preparation Day (by our calendar, a Friday).

Lunar eclipse

A lunar eclipse from March 2007. A lunar eclipse can last a few hours, total coverage being about an hour.[36] Apostle Peter's reference to a "moon of blood" in Acts 2:20 has been used to infer the date of the Crucifixion.Humphreys and Waddington of Oxford University reconstructed the Jewish calendar in the first century AD and arrived at the conclusion that Friday April 3 33AD was the date of the Crucifixion.[23] Humphreys and Waddington went further and also reconstructed the scenario for a lunar eclipse on that day.[35] They concluded that:

"This eclipse was visible from Jerusalem at moonrise. .... The start of the eclipse was invisible from Jerusalem, being below the horizon. The eclipse began at 3:40pm and reached a maximum at 5:15pm, with 60% of the moon eclipsed. This was also below the horizon from Jerusalem. The moon rose above the horizon, and was first visible from Jerusalem at about 6:20pm (the start of the Jewish Sabbath and also the start of Passover day in A.D. 33) with about 20% of its disc in the umbra of the earth's shadow and the remainder in the penumbra. The eclipse finished some thirty minutes later at 6:50pm."

Moreover, their calculations showed that the 20% visible of the moon was positioned close to the top (i.e. leading edge) of the moon. The failure of any of the gospel accounts to refer to a lunar eclipse is, they assume, the result of a scribe wrongly amending a text to refer to a solar eclipse.[37]:150

In Acts 2:20, the Apostle Peter mentions in the context of a prophecy from Joel that "the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood"[Acts 2:20]. A "moon of blood" is a term also commonly used for a lunar eclipse because of the reddish color of the light refracted onto the moon through the Earth's atmosphere. Commentators are divided upon the exact nature of this statement by Saint Peter. The investigation by Humphreys and Waddington concluded that the moon turned to blood statement probably refers to a lunar eclipse, and they showed that this interpretation is self consistent and seems to confirm their conclusion that the crucifixion occurred on April 3, 33. However, they fail to address the preceding reference to the darkened sun.[35]

Using his approach to computing "celestial glare", Bradley Schaefer opposed the views of Humphreys and Waddington with respect to the visibility of the lunar eclipse, since his computations of celestial glare would not allow a visible lunar eclipse during the Crucifixion.[38][39] Ruggles also supported Schaefer's views.[40] However, using different computational mechanisms, based on the approach originally used by Isaac Newton, John Pratt and later Bradley Schaefer separately arrived at the same date for the Crucifixion as Humphreys and Waddington did based on the lunar eclipse approach, namely Friday, April 3 33 AD.[41]

Gaskel argued a lunar eclipse during the day of the crucifixion could have received significant attention.[42]

en.wikipedia.org...

Keep an open mind, watch "The Real Star of Bethlehem" video series, and check this link, thanks.

www.bethlehemstar.net...

P.S. It was a full moon.

What time of the year do the Jewish celebrate passover?

According to the Jewish calendar, Passover starts the evening of (Nissan/Abib) the 14th[Lev.23:5-7; Exodus 12:2,6,14; 13:3-7] which would be the latter part-evening of the 13th and ends the 21st at evening before going into the 22nd..
Exodus 12:18 = "In the first month, on the 14th day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."

See Jesus's disciples observing it in the evening of the 13th which would be Tuesday evening(Wednesday 14th) back then[Luke 22:1-20; Mark 14:12-27] and then Jesus died still on Passover which would be the 14th on a Wednesday.[Note: if Passover fell like people said on the 14th and they celebrated it on the evening of the 14th; that would go into the 15th which is a Holy Day; note the Pharisses said not on the feast day; the feast day is holy, so they had to kill him on Passover the 14th]
Note: evening to evening is considered to be a day in the Bible.
www.tomorrowsworld.org...…
screensaver: Jesus's Death
family.webshots.com...…
In the year 2009; Passover is celebrated April 8th to the 15th. So Passover starts the evening of the 7th and lasts until the evening of the 8th; then are the days of unleavened bread which are the 9th to the 15th. The 9th and 15th are holy days. See Exodus 12:14-20.

Source(s):
God's Holy Days Calendar: www.tomorrowsworld.org...

One more rather intriguing note: When Jesus was being nailed to the cross, the moon was still below the horizon, which only began to rise ALREADY in the beginning of an eclipse AFTER he'd been on the cross for about 6 hours - which would have really freaked them out big time...! It's what I would call a reverse-sting-hoodwink which would have left "them" wondering just who was managing the events leading up to the cross. I'm sure many would have fallen to their knees at the sight of the blood red lunar eclipse while exclaiming "HOW DID HE KNOW?!!!"

To me, that's Jesus through and through, to get the better of the worst of them (us) while robbing the devil blind in what I call a "double bind" from which there's no escape.

28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.

29 Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30 He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

~ Mathew 12:28-30

God love him! I know I do!


You know NOTurTypical, there's still room for us Christians to be utterly astonished at the discovery of new information, and it's perfectly ok to be wrong sometimes or mistaken, I know I have been time and again, so please don't get your back up my brother.

In Christ,

NAM aka Bob

"It was the stone that was rejected by the builders that became the keystone."


Edit to add: There was only ONE such eclipse during the governorship of Pontias Pilate.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

Re: Revelation. If it was about things in 70AD, as some claim, then who is the Queen who says "I am not a widow" and refuses to mourn.. ?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I'm talking about the SUN not giving it's light for 3 hours when Christ died. Darkness over all the land. It could not have been an eclipse.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Keep an open mind, watch "The Real Star of Bethlehem" video series, and check this link,

Even i was quite impressed by that video actually...

I would even say humbled...

Though its still only theory... i definatly felt truth in how its presented

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Of course it wasn't a solar eclipse, no. That darkness for three hours.. imho, it was either a dust storm, or very possibly some confusion on the part of scribes who got the lunar eclipse (which can occur over the course of a couple of hours) confused with a solar eclipse and re-wrote in the darkening of the sun report unaware that a solar eclipse at most lasts only about 7 minutes and only occurs during the new moon phase (never during a full moon..for some strange reason).

For example, the total eclipse of the Moon on Feb. 20-21, 2008, lasted a little less than three and a half hours from the beginning of the partial phase, through the totality, to the end of the partial phase. Totality in this case was about 50 minutes.

Read more: wiki.answers.com...

However, a solar eclipse only lasts up to something like 7.5 minutes or thereabouts, max, you're right on that point.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


There are reports of the darkness in Rome. That's a massively huge dust storm don't you think?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That's interesting..! Do you have a cite for that, and what do you think was the cause?

In one of the gospels or somewhere in the scripture I think there was talk about billowing clouds like smoke covering the land (and presumably darkening the sun).

Anyway, if widespread (the reports of darkness at mid-day for that duration) then that's quite the phenomenon.

If the April 3rd, 33AD date is correct for the cross, then there was certainly no solar eclipse, but there was a lunar eclipse on Preparation Day, something which would have potentially had significance to Jesus (particularly if he was a trained Magus).

Edit to add: My point in adding this info is to suggest that Jesus summed up EVERYTHING in himself and his Great Work, from the ancient knowledge of ancient Egypt (Pythagoras) to Jewish, to Hindu (Brahma and Atma are one) to Buddhist (which he repudiated by saying - "what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul"), etc etc, including Heliocentric (sun-centric) philosophy and worship involving the Earth/Moon/Sun relationship, which has all but been proven to be cosmologically unique in all the universe ie: no other world with a single moon perfectly eclipsing the sun while sentient observers watch. He summed it all up during a lunar eclipse with the full moon under Virgo, as the high priest the willing and blesmish-free sacrifice while stating time and again "I ask for mercy not sacrifice!"

Re: Paganism - one wonders over the course of ancient history, how many virgins were sacrificed (whether willingly or not) during special solar and lunar confluences, solstices, perihelions etc.

I do agree with this though

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Has nothing to do with the Son of God who is the Heir to the White Throne, his Light is not the literal Light, it's spiritual light of righteousness. Nimrod did try to confound mankind by creating his own pagan cults where he was worshipped as the sungod (sometimes known as Sol Invictus, or Lord Krishna) but Yeshua is not a sungod, he is the only God, the Word, the Voice of God, his physical manifestation in this universe.

His is the greater light, but what is the "light of life"? Is it consciousness itself, in his case God-consciousness, and did he want the same for us - for OUR mind and heart to be transformed into something ever-increasingly more like him? Absolutely, call me a heretic all you like, but I can tell what he wanted, and what drove him, which was to love and be loved, the very same reason everything was created by the father for the son, and through him, us as well.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I'll have to dig, tomorrow I should have something for you. I think it was something from God. Coupled with the earthquake the darkness at midday had the Praetorian guardsmen at the crucifixion terrified. And in the Hellenistic culture they already had myths and legends of god men.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Keep an open mind, watch "The Real Star of Bethlehem" video series, and check this link,

Even i was quite impressed by that video actually...

I would even say humbled...

Though its still only theory... i definatly felt truth in how its presented

Well, the historical record of Jesus' life, from birth to the cross at 33 rather perfectly fits the celestial "frame" of the "theory" that's for sure. When the gospel is re-read with this theory in mind, one begins to see how Jesus came to self-recognize himself (Magi from the East, children slain by Herod), and the various motivators (find his true father, be reborn of the spirit, etc.) that would have drove him, and, last but not least how he saw his life up to the point of the cross framed by the divine order as a sign from God saying "you are my beloved son". Furthermore, when we sort of reverse-engineer the events leading up to the cross, it becomes apparent that Jesus spent that first half of his life in preparation for that particular Preparation day, as if he was on a very precise schedule from the very moment he walked onto the scene for his baptism at the Jordan river, to the very hour of the cross ie: note how he would slip away when about to be arrested or stoned saying "my hour has not yet come". It's a revelation as far as I'm concerned, and what's even freakier or more astonishing perhaps in regards about what it says about the true nature and person of Jesus Christ as the literal sent son of God, is what it also says about us, as his younger brothers and sisters regarding our true place and stature in God's creation (in Christ) whereby everything, down the finest detail, was made by design by the father (first father of creation) for the son, because of, love, to love and be loved and to share in that love because it pleased the father to share his eternal kingdom with all his children. Thus, what then is there to fear and where is the oppressor?

It's beyond "Good News" (Gospel). It makes us quite literally, those who believe and recieve, untouchables for whom anything we ask ie: courage, wisdom etc will be given to us in the name of Jesus Christ.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

The 3rd-century Christian historian Sextus Julius Africanus, in a section of his work surviving in quotation by George Syncellus, stated that the chronicler Thallus had called the darkness during the crucifixion a solar eclipse. [12] Africanus objected based on the fact that a solar eclipse could not occur during Passover; the festival is held at a full moon while a solar eclipse can only occur during a new moon. It is unclear whether Thallus himself made any reference to the crucifixion. [13]

Africanus also cites the 2nd-century chronicler Phlegon of Tralles: "Phlegon records that during the reign of Tiberius Caesar there was a complete solar eclipse at full moon from the sixth to the ninth hour". The church historian Eusebius of Caesarea (264 – 340), in his Chronicle, quotes Phlegon as saying that during the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (AD 32/33) "a great eclipse of the sun occurred at the sixth hour that excelled every other before it, turning the day into such darkness of night that the stars could be seen in heaven, and the earth moved in Bithynia, toppling many buildings in the city of Nicaea". [14] It has been suggested that this was the eclipse of November 24, 29 AD in the first year of the Olympiad, the number Α' (1st) having been corrupted to Δ' (4th). [12] In a 2005 paper, Nicolas Ambraseys points out that the sources do not mention Jerusalem in connection with the earthquake. [15]

Tertullian, in his Apologeticus, tells the story of the darkness that had commenced at noon during the crucifixion; those who were unaware of the prediction, he says, "no doubt thought it an eclipse". [16] He suggests that the evidence is still available: "You yourselves have the account of the world-portent still in your archives." [17]

The early historian and theologian, Rufinus of Aquileia (between 340 and 345 – 410), in his expanded work of Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History, includes a part of the defense given to Maximinus by Lucian of Antioch, shortly before he suffered martyrdom in 312. [18] Lucian, like Tertullian, was also convinced that an account of the darkness that accompanied the crucifixion could be found among Roman records. Ussher recorded Lucian's corresponding statement given to Maximinus as, “Search your writings and you shall find that, in Pilate’s time, when Christ suffered, the sun was suddenly withdrawn and a darkness followed.” [19]

The next prominent Christian historian after Eusebius, Paulus Orosius (375 – 418), wrote c. 417 that Jesus "voluntarily gave himself over to the Passion but through the impiety of the Jews, was apprehended and nailed to the cross, as a very great earthquake took place throughout the world, rocks upon mountains were split, and a great many parts of the largest cities fell by this extraordinary violence. On the same day also, at the sixth hour of the day, the Sun was entirely obscured and a loathsome night suddenly overshadowed the land, as it was said, ‘an impious age feared eternal night.’ Moreover, it was quite clear that neither the Moon nor the clouds stood in the way of the light of the Sun, so that it is reported that on that day the Moon, being fourteen days old, with the entire region of the heavens thrown in between, was farthest from the sight of the Sun, and the stars throughout the entire sky shone, then in the hours of the day or rather in that terrible night. To this, not only the authority of the Holy Gospels attest, but even some books of the Greeks."

Crucifixion Darkness

That's what I found so far. But I remember a much more in depth podcast from Chuck Missler about this issue, I'll find that and give you the link tomorrow.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Ah so you see, it was confusion! Confusion between a solar and a lunar eclipse, and this then might have caused the story to be rewitten giving the timeframe for a lunar eclipose for a solar eclipse which is impossible (only lasts 7 minutes) and never occurs during a full moon.

Darkness from the third to the sixth hour then is an error in the text, written into the story by scribes based on confusion about the actual events. It happens, especially in the case of an oral tradition.

It's the lunar eclipse (and potentially also an earthquake) which is more important and applicable than the darkness and it is precisely what occured between the 3rd and 6th hour, now verified by astronomical software and good historical and Biblical sleuthing to find the date.

Remember all the Gospels record the cross as occuring at the cusp of Passover, and Jesus, he knew well in advance precisely what was going to happen when it would happen, and for him it was the blood red moon rising (his hour) with a full moon under the feet of the constellation of Virgo, where at his birth it was a thin waxing crescent moon under the virgin. Also, like I said, because the lunar eclipse was already entering into eclipse when it rose from over the horizon, Jesus was ALREADY on the cross and thus, it was used as an instrument by Jesus in more ways than one, one of which would have been to demonstrate who was REALLY in control of events..

Thanks for that, I'm really clear on this now.

And for the anti-Bible atheists who would jump on this, they ought to think twice about what it really shows, which isn't a story fabricated from whole cloth by any means.