Historical Evidence of modern day CHRISTIANITY being PAGAN!

So I know many of you don't care to read about this kind of topic but I find it very interesting. Hopefully, most of you will be respectful to those who have differences in opinion and are open to what anyone has to say NO MATTER how much the information someone puts out irritates you. Now moving on, I understand the ORIGINAL language of the bible was Hebrew.(When I speak about the ORIGINAL bible or ORIGINAL language of the bible I mean the Torah or TANAKH.) Many Christians like to praise JESUS when JESUS can't even be translated to Yeshua or Yahshua. First off, the name JESUS derived from Latin and Greek meaning IESOUS (Hail Zeus) in Greek, as for Latin Jesus is Zeus's name .

askdrbrown.org... eally-a-pagan-corruption-of-the-name-zeus

Furthermore, if Jesus could be translated to Yeshua or Yahshua then that would mean our Messiah is Zeus and that part of God's name is Zeus which it is NOT. The sacred name of our God of Israel is Yahweh. Our Fathers full name is YOD HEY VAV HEY. When you pronounce his name it should sound something like this yood (like a long "u " sound) hey wav hey. Also, if you look in scripture Yahweh tells us that his son will have his name in him. (hint hint Yeshua or Yahsua)

www.youtube.com...

Now if you are asking the question, how does this make it PAGAN, that's because when the ORIGINAL bible was translated to Greek many words could not be translated from the ORIGINAL Hebrew text. So therefor they added in words and phrases as they pleased including, IESOUS or IESUS or what ever you want to call it to be politically correct. (Either way it means Hail Zeus) This being said they used Greek "mythology" names of Goddesses to substitute some of the names which is used in ORIGINAL texts. Ancient Rome also added in ancient holidays and rituals to that of the ORIGINAL CHRISTIANITY. Ancient Christians were the gentiles who believed in Yahshua as their Lord and savior, not JESUS. They believed in Messianic Judaism.

As for who was the main culprit of it all, I would have to say that would have to go to many of the leaders of Ancient Rome including some key figures I would like to mention: Constatine, Julius Ceasar, and the Pharisees. Anyways, I don't feel like adding in anymore information. So I'm going to close this off with a link which will direct you to a youtube video called "Pagan Christianity". I encourage those of you who are opened to the truth to watch it. Shalom.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by ruthlesstruth


logic fail. Pagan is a word describing a religion, not a religion. The word pagan just refers to any polytheistic non-Abrahamic religion. So by the very definition of the word "pagan" Christianity cannot be pagan.

Interesting point about Julius Caesar - he died in 44 BC and so couldn't have had anything to do with your conjectures.

reply to post by Dnepropetrovsk


True.
However many pagan traditions have been absorbed by many christians.

That's probably the confusion.

Originally posted by obixman
Interesting point about Julius Caesar - he died in 44 BC and so couldn't have had anything to do with your conjectures.

Actually, he was one of the many people who objected Yahshua and demanded he'd be crucified.

Originally posted by Dnepropetrovsk
reply to post by ruthlesstruth

 

logic fail. Pagan is a word describing a religion, not a religion. The word pagan just refers to any polytheistic non-Abrahamic religion. So by the very definition of the word "pagan" Christianity cannot be pagan.

Well if you look at the meaning on the link I am about to post below you will see that it says," It is primarily used in a historical context, referring to Greco-Roman polytheism as well as the polytheistic traditions of Europe and North Africa before Christianization." Is not the modern day CHRISTIANITY anything of Greco-Roman polytheism?

en.wikipedia.org...

If you have never watched one of his lectures... do so.

Manly begins by explaining how children ask "Where did I come from" and then goes into the origin of the first cause.

I actually think all religions came from the Hermetic Philosophy.

Originally posted by MamaJ

If you have never watched one of his lectures... do so.

Manly begins by explaining how children ask "Where did I come from" and then goes into the origin of the first cause.

I actually think all religions came from the Hermetic Philosophy.

edit on 19-9-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

Ok, this has nothing to do with my topic. moving on..

Originally posted by Dnepropetrovsk
reply to post by ruthlesstruth

 

logic fail. Pagan is a word describing a religion, not a religion. The word pagan just refers to any polytheistic non-Abrahamic religion. So by the very definition of the word "pagan" Christianity cannot be pagan.

Logic Totally Failed! Since when did the word "Pagan" mean religion?

Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic"[1]) is a blanket term, typically used to refer to religious traditions which are polytheistic or indigenous.
Isis holding a sistrum and an oinochoe. (Roman artwork from the Hadrian period (117–138 CE).)

It is primarily used in a historical context, referring to Greco-Roman polytheism as well as the polytheistic traditions of Europe and North Africa before Christianization. In a wider sense, extended to contemporary religions, it includes most of the Eastern religions and the indigenous traditions of the Americas, Central Asia, Australia and Africa; as well as non-Abrahamic folk religion in general. More narrow definitions will not include any of the world religions and restrict the term to local or rural currents not organized as civil religions. Characteristic of Pagan traditions is the absence of proselytism and the presence of a living mythology, which informs religious practice.

Ethnologists often avoid the term "paganism," with its uncertain and varied meanings, in referring to traditional or historic faiths, preferring more precise categories such as polytheism, shamanism, pantheism, or animism.

In the late 20th century, "Paganism", or "Neopaganism", became widely used in reference to adherents of various New Religious Movements including Wicca.

en.wikipedia.org...

Some believe, that in the early Roman Empire, "Paganus" came to mean the same as "civilian," as opposed to "military." Christians at the time often called themselves "Miles Christi" Simple meaning: Soldiers of Christ.

The word “pagan” comes from Latin.

As a noun: “paganus, pagani”= pagan; countryman, peasant; civilian (non-soldier); civilians/locals (pl.)
As an adjective: “paganus, pagana, paganum”= pagan; of a pagus (country district); rural/rustic; civilian (not military)

In origin, this word had no reference at all to religion or spirituality. It was used by city-dwellers (Romans) to refer to those people from the country, and often in a slightly derogatory way. In ancient Rome, if you were pagan, you were a country person, a rustic.

In one big way, OP is right, because people of the Early Christian faith sects were often referred to as "pagan," largely because the sects rose in the countryside, not the city states of the time.
source
Clear? "Wicca" could be called a religion. NeoPagan could not. (It is a political group)

Concerning Caesar: Elements of the Jesus character was also derived from the life and divine worship of Julius Caesar. The Gospel "Crucifixion" account of the mythological Jesus came from the funeral procession of Julius Caesar whose wax figure was raised upon a Roman cross in order to symbolize his resurrection as a god. Yes, Julius Caesar was worshipped as a god among the people! Julius Caesar was worshipped as a Savior of the people! Adopted son, nephew and heir of Julius Caesar, Augustus Caesar was also revered as the son of god, of his divine father Julius Caesar. Now that that is said, there have been many ways through many people to allow the deciet to thrive and chain everyone down. I think the OP meant Augustus Caesar. A simple mistake everyone can make, calm down people. Other than all of this, there are plenty pagan holidays, customs & false beliefs these "Christians" have. None of them are from God, but from Man. The days and seasons were changed, as was history. People must learn things for themselves and also, must remember to not give up just because they were blindly led astray once or even a few times. It's meant to be that way so only the most dedicated find the truth for their burning desires. It's called the Veil. Shalom! Disgusting fact: People dye easter eggs because at one time, the easter eggs were actually dyed with blood, from sacrifice of infants. Easter is actually the pagan goddess Ishtar.

reply to post by ruthlesstruth


If your topic has to do with Christianity being pagan.... then YES IT DOES.

Paganism is not the same as Christianity. lol

Move on..... and ..... DO more homework.

reply to post by Dnepropetrovsk


Christianity, is definitely pagan. It's composed of every sort of idol worship imagined, every type of pagan custom and ritual known throughout the world. It's just all mixed together. Constantine wanted to convert the pagans to Christianity, What better way to do this? Saturnalia turned into Christmas and they just kept on rolling along worshiping other Gods. Actually, I wouldn't consider Christianity to Abrahamic anyway. Especially not Modern Christianity. & I don't give a # what any supposed Scholars say about that belief of mine, nor do I care if everyone in the whole world believes it. Religion is ridiculous anyway. Get stuck in a "organized" religion, you get stuck in a mess trying to figure out the truth from the lies. Oh the Irony. Why can't we have a relationship with God ourselves? We can. Why can't we read scripture ourselves and understand ourself just as it directs us to? We can. Why can't we stop the BS? We can. Angry christians are like the muslims who claim they believe in God or the law, but go ahead raping and killing over "some movie." Give me a damn break. Sorry for ranting.

reply to post by ruthlesstruth


I would like to direct you to an old thread you might find very interesting. You may or may not, have come across it before.

All Roads Lead to Rome.
It was created by ProtoplasmicTraveler a few years ago.
Unfortunately he has since been banned from ATS.

But this, in my opinion, is one the Epic Threads on ATS, and it is still here for everyone's enjoyment.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by ruthlesstruth

 

If your topic has to do with Christianity being pagan.... then YES IT DOES.

Paganism is not the same as Christianity. lol

Move on..... and ..... DO more homework.

First off, your youtube video is explaining an entire philosophy. Therefor you are going totally off topic since I am speaking about CHRISTIANITY being Pagan, not Paganism in general. The MODERN day CHRISTIANITY is the same as Paganism with a touch of Messianic Judaism.

reply to post by ruthlesstruth


Iesous is the Greek form of Yeshua.

In fact, if you want to get really technical, Yeshua isn't even the real name of Jesus because it is a transliteration from the Hebrew to modern English.

You really need to study language instead of listening to peoples' attempts at destroying the credibility of Jesus Christ.

You're going to cause people who are more simple to question what they already know about the Lord; that He is, in modern English language, Jesus Christ, the Lord, the Lord that has saved us.

Now if there had been a question concerning doctrine, that might have been another story. But you're uneducated about language and it shows.

Lucky for the simple and focused, there are those of us who are a little less focused on one thing and are more educated in many ways - this way the Lord gives a protection for them against nonsense like this.

Would you cause people to doubt their Lord over an incredibly silly transliteration issue?

Iesous does NOT mean Zeus; and Iesous is not Zeus in Latin either. Zeus in Latin was "Iupiter" or "Iove" as we would say, "Jupiter" or "Jove"(which was used in poetry most often). They did not romanize Zeus; they renamed him.

It would also be good if you research Roman Catholicism and its "pagan" origins; as opposed to true Christianity (which is rarely found in protestantism anymore because it has been thoroughly re-infected with catholic dogma) which did NOT incorporate anything "pagan" or "ritualistic" - but rather held to the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ - which things are good to all those who actually seek the knowledge and pray for the wisdom.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to find the etymology and the roots for all of our words and also to better understand what has been passed down and given to us. But do you really think that God is such a God that He would hide His Being from those who are more simple? That sounds completely counterproductive to what He says when He says, "I will make wise the simple." and He also says that He will, "confound the wise". So those who think themselves so wise will be confounded and those who are simple will receive from Him the wisdom and the knowledge that is true.

I know this particularly from experience because I was gifted with intelligence of a high caliber - so much so that no one could match my ability to imagine or figure anything. When I began to seek Him, He totally and utterly put me in my place as a human being. All of the brains in the world cannot possibly stand up to the amazing wonders He has placed has stumbling blocks on the roads to science and discovery. No; most will stumble and curse at Him and then come up with their own idea so as to cover-up the fact that they have fallen and scraped their knees and they are too afraid to continue because they know that running the race their own way will cost them more flesh.

And it was not my intelligence that brought me out of the cycle. It was the humility He granted me by beating me down, which HE DID. And while I have despised so much of the beating, it has only made me so much more receptive to His wisdom and His love. And now my intelligence can be used to combat those who think themselves wise and to defend the simple and to prevent people from causing them to faint or fade away from that true thing that they have held; all because of the silliness of people that cannot help but cause divisiveness and strife among His children.

Jesus Christ is His name. Do NOT take away Christ from the English speaking people in the name of your Pharisaical folly.

But again, as I said before, if you want to trace the pagan ritualism that has infected Christendom, then you need to investigate the Roman Catholic Church and also its influence on Protestantism.

As for me, I am none of these silly denominations. The children of God are the body of Jesus Christ. We are not only believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, but we are a family. We need not to have any denomination.

When the people in Antioch started calling the followers of Christ "Christians", that was enough for us.

And also, remember that just because someone claims to be Christian, it DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE.

So please, for the rest of you in the world, please do not judge the true Christians by the folly of those who only falsely claim the Name of our Lord in vain and do not blame God Himself for their folly because they do not belong to Him.

As He said, there will be many who say, "Have we not prophesied in your Name and performed many miracles in your Name?" People will say to God, we loved you and we did for YOU!

And because He knows peoples' hearts and HE IS NOT A FOOL, He will say, "Go away from me. I don't know you."

The simple are secure. They listen to the Lord Jesus Christ and require not another gospel.

Blessed are they!

reply to post by autowrench


Very contradicting, You say what I said was a logic fail when later you speak about the early Christians being Pagan when that very same Pagan Christianity exists today. The VERY FIRST CHRISTIANS were that of MESSIANIC JUDAISM. Now if you want to argue about who were the first Christians and where their beliefs ORIGINATED from we can.

Originally posted by ruthlesstruth

Originally posted by obixman
Interesting point about Julius Caesar - he died in 44 BC and so couldn't have had anything to do with your conjectures.

Actually, he was one of the many people who objected Yahshua and demanded he'd be crucified.

I made a mistake here. Augustus Caesar was the one who demanded he'd be crucified excuse me for my incorrect statement above. Though Julius Caesar still had a lot to do with the Paganism in Christianity as Lethalized explains.

reply to post by watchitburn


I must admit this was very interesting and yes there are many roads that lead back to Rome but there are many roads that lead further back in history too. ( modern day Iraq hence Babylon)

Originally posted by ruthlesstruth

Originally posted by obixman
Interesting point about Julius Caesar - he died in 44 BC and so couldn't have had anything to do with your conjectures.

Actually, he was one of the many people who objected Yahshua and demanded he'd be crucified.

No.

It was DURING the reign of Tiberius Caesar - and Tiberius had no say in the matter.

It was the Governor and Procurator Pontius Pilate that allowed the work to carry forth, as the Jews, both Pharisees and Saduccees, demanded. And even Pontius Pilate washed his hands of the problem and said that Jesus Christ's blood be on the Jews (because they were saying it was unlawful for them to kill Jesus and yet they wanted Him dead - as if it matters to the law who demanded something and who actually pulled the trigger? fools.)

You are making things up. This is becoming a problem.

Now it is obvious you're not just regurgitating things but you're stating things because they suit your purpose.

And for the other poster who is talking about the pagan holidays and their connection to Christianity---

Once again, true Christians do not participate in those holidays for THE VERY REASONS that you are explaining. You are talking about modern-day apostates, pagan ritualists, following in the footsteps of the Roman Catholic Church - and have you not read recently how the Pope called for the "daughter churches" of Protestantism to be rejoined with the Catholic Church? (Which you should know, Catholic means "universal" - so guess what the world church is going to be during the New World Order?)

There are still some of His children that do not yet understand that they are partaking in pagan rituals - and His children are still scattered and some are still atheist and some are still in hiding and some are still Catholic even - some are actually working in the governments and don't even realize who they are yet!

God's children have not all yet become aware that they are chosen.

But those who are aware are here to re-educate and re-establish that which was lost.

It is referred to by some as the Loud Cry.

Be careful also, for some of you Christians who are just becoming aware or for those of you that do not think that you are God's chosen, but in reality you are - when you are searching for knowledge, you will find some of the most legalist "denominations" of Christianity do seem to understand more about prophecy and the laws and the definitions in the Holy Bible. But I also beg of you to not fall into the trap of legalism - for if we were all to be severely legalistic, then we might not be in a position to help educate and save those that would be nowhere near the "perfectionist" principles within some of these denominations. This is not an invitation to be disobedient; but rather, show love to everyone and be not judgmental of their vices or their problems. But instead, keep people accountable for their love!

Keep your family in-line. Show thorough amounts of love to strangers. Do not allow for their to be rituals beyond that what Christ ordained for us. And there were no rituals ordained by Christ except that we are baptized in the water and that we are to keep what is commonly referred to as the Communion - which is actually a meal on Passover that symbolizes the children of God eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ - which thing is obviously not literal, but it is in remembrance of the sacrifice Jesus Christ gave for us - that His flesh was given to us and His blood was spilled for us that we might receive Him into us - and by receiving Him, we receive His Spirit, the Comforter, the Christ was within the flesh of Jesus Christ, His Spirit, which He said, "If I do not go, then the Comforter will not come".

Christmas is not Christian. Easter is not Christian. Jewish holidays are no longer even allowed for they are commandments of the Mosaic law which was fulfilled when Jesus Christ said, "It is finished."

But baptism, whenever someone claims believe in Jesus Christ, and the Remembrance, which I will call it so as to keep it separate from the demonic institution of the Eucharist and the Protestant Communion (for they know not what sins they bring upon them, to eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ and yet to continue to not actually love or follow Him, making His sacrifice in vain) - which should generally be held on the evening of the Passover, the very same day that Jesus Christ died for us and became the Passover Lamb - but the Lord is merciful, and to me (and you should pray and ask Him as well; for what He considers okay for me may not necessarily what He considers okay for you - to each individual their own regarding the command of Christ) He has moved me to believe that the Remembrance can be performed when it is good to perform, simply enough.

Any other rituals are not of God, but of men.

And the Sabbath, "saturday", IS a commandment. Not pagan Sunday.

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