I'm right on the edge of the draft envelope (27) so I doubt I would even be drafted. However it wouldn't matter. If things got bad enough that the draft was reinstated I wouldn't wait to find out if my number got called. I would fly back to the US and enlist. Those of you who would run or illegally avoid the draft are IMHO criminals, cowards, and traitors. Whether you agree with the war is irrelevant they call you go. If you have moral objections to fighting in a war than be a man about it and do what Ali did. Announce your objections, and live with the consequences. Ali gave up the world heavy weight title to object to the war, but he didnt run like a bit*h.

If it comes to the point where I get that dreaded letter I guess I would have to go, as a person who was in law enforcement for 11 1/2 years and after 4 years is returning to the law enforcement career I love it would be hypacritical of me to break the laws I work so hard to try to uphold and even risk my life to do so. However I would get my mos to reflect a non combatant status such as Fire Fighter/Medic or Chaplain both of which I am also. No Canada citizenship for me I guess.

[edit on 20/10/2004 by drbryankkruta]

[edit on 20/10/2004 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by mwm1331
I'm right on the edge of the draft envelope (27) so I doubt I would even be drafted. However it wouldn't matter. If things got bad enough that the draft was reinstated I wouldn't wait to find out if my number got called. I would fly back to the US and enlist. Those of you who would run or illegally avoid the draft are IMHO criminals, cowards, and traitors. Whether you agree with the war is irrelevant they call you go. If you have moral objections to fighting in a war than be a man about it and do what Ali did. Announce your objections, and live with the consequences. Ali gave up the world heavy weight title to object to the war, but he didnt run like a bit*h.

many people who refused to join and were forced to done some very gd things. also why would you call them cowards? tratiors? criminals?
also agreeing with it is important, i know 3 people who wanted to join the army but since this iraq thing started they have given up on that idea.

I am lucky enough to not be born in the USA but even so, i would sooner use my guns to go on a rampage against the people in power than i would fight a war.

All wars are completely unjustified, anyone who goes along with that crap --- grrr- --- post edited..

[edit on 20-10-2004 by lawdka0z]

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by mwm1331
I'm right on the edge of the draft envelope (27) so I doubt I would even be drafted. However it wouldn't matter. If things got bad enough that the draft was reinstated I wouldn't wait to find out if my number got called. I would fly back to the US and enlist. Those of you who would run or illegally avoid the draft are IMHO criminals, cowards, and traitors. Whether you agree with the war is irrelevant they call you go. If you have moral objections to fighting in a war than be a man about it and do what Ali did. Announce your objections, and live with the consequences. Ali gave up the world heavy weight title to object to the war, but he didnt run like a bit*h.

many people who refused to join and were forced to done some very gd things. also why would you call them cowards? tratiors? criminals?
also agreeing with it is important, i know 3 people who wanted to join the army but since this iraq thing started they have given up on that idea.

Devil wasp I dont know what the law is n the UK but in the US it is illegal to "dodge the draft" Your personal feelings are irrelevant. If your number is called you go. Period. Otherwise you are a criminal, and a traitor. Thats not an opinon it is a legal fact.

if there is a draft, i will enlist. i don't want to be forced to go, i want it to be a choice.

Originally posted by Netchicken
If there is a draft it should only be of families of people who voted for Bush.

Surely thats only fair, leave those who voted Kerry or somone else out of it.

then those who voted for kerry can go live elsewhere too.

Originally posted by Netchicken
If there is a draft it should only be of families of people who voted for Bush.
leave those who voted Kerry or somone else out of it.

Why leave those who voted for Kerry out of it? If there is a draft,
it would mean that KERRY was in office. Bush has said that he won't
have a draft. It's the DEMS who introduced the draft bill. It's Kerry
who says he needs 40,000 more troops to go to Iraq.

Heck ... if there was a draft, what would I do? I'd be crying because
I'd know that traitor Kerry was in the Oval Office and that the draft
could have been avoided if America had voted for George Bush.

[edit on 10/20/2004 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by mwm1331Those of you who would run or illegally avoid the draft are IMHO criminals, cowards, and traitors.

And I'm damn proud of it too. Oh, and nice generalization by the way.

Originally posted by mwm1331Whether you agree with the war is irrelevant they call you go.

So what you ae saying is that a persons ideals, beliefs, way of life, and moral values come in second when dealing with imperialistic wars started by their country?

Originally posted by mwm1331If you have moral objections to fighting in a war than be a man about it and do what Ali did. Announce your objections, and live with the consequences. Ali gave up the world heavy weight title to object to the war, but he didnt run like a bit*h.

That’s your plan? Say that you don't support it and then go fight anyway. That’s quite hypocritical there buddy.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Netchicken
If there is a draft it should only be of families of people who voted for Bush.
leave those who voted Kerry or somone else out of it.

Why leave those who voted for Kerry out of it? If there is a draft,
it would mean that KERRY was in office. Bush has said that he won't
have a draft. It's the DEMS who introduced the draft bill. It's Kerry
who says he needs 40,000 more troops to go to Iraq.

Heck ... if there was a draft, what would I do? I'd be crying because
I'd know that traitor Kerry was in the Oval Office and that the draft
could have been avoided if America had voted for George Bush.

[edit on 10/20/2004 by FlyersFan]

Well-said FlyersFan - thanks for pointing that out. I am so sick of this talk about there being a draft because of Bush. It is not going to happen while he is in office - that much is clear. Kerry on the other hand, like you said, wants to make our military 40,000 people stronger. Where is he going to get these people? Is he going to give a bigger enlistment bonus? Kerry also says he want to double the amount of Special Operations Forces. How is he going to do this? Is he going to lower the standards of these units to allow for more people to complete the selection and training of the said units? That is not a good idea at all.

I am glad to be in the military under Bush and most of the soldiers that I serve with are the same way. My brother is an Army Special Forces soldier (Green Beret) and he has told me that in his 20 year career, he has never met a liberal special operations soldier. I think that says a lot. To me that says that the kind of people with that level of intestinal fortitude and selfless patriotism just do not have the ability nor the desire to have a selve-serving liberal mind-set at the same time. You can try and think of reasons of why this is, but you cannot say that is because they don't know what really goes on in the world.

Don't get me wrong, I think that a lot of liberals have patriotic feelings and are sincere and have made many things in America better, but all of this does not outweigh the bad. I realize that my post's subject is straying from that of the thread as a whole, so I will leave it at that.

[edit on 20-10-2004 by Mr_H]

At my age I dont have to worry about it BUT

If called, even today, I would go.

I love my country and would do my duty as a an American even if I did not like.

Originally posted by Amuk
At my age I dont have to worry about it BUT

If called, even today, I would go.

I love my country and would do my duty as a an American even if I did not like.

I respect that very much.

Don't really care one way or another if the draft is re-instated. I served 8 years. If need be, I'll go back. All you whiners out there...jut think of what would happen if no one volunteered? My thoughts is if you aren't willing to fight for what you believe, or for the security of your country...go somewhere else. Canada is always looking for a few good cowards.

I can only say what I actually did when there was a draft. I joined the Marine Corps while in high school and left for Boot Camp eleven days after having graduated. And when it was all over, I came home and went on about my life, as best I could.

That was the smartest thing I ever did. Now, thirty-five years later, when people my age are pointing the finger at each other and questioning each others actions, motives and loyaties, mine are a matter of record and I can look any man straight in the eye, when it comes to my service.

The most pathetic thing to see is grown men hem and haw their myriad excuses for not having served and I love watching them do it. No man with a soul can ever feel good about having missed his opportunity to go to war to fight in the cause of freedom.

St. Crispen's Day Speech

William Shakespeare, 1599

Enter the KING

WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here
But one ten thousand of those men in England
That do no work to-day!

KING. What's he that wishes so?

My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.

God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.

But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour

As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,

Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.

This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.

He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,

And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,

Familiar in his mouth as household words-
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.

This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;

And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

[edit on 04/10/20 by GradyPhilpott]

I would NOT go to War if I was forced to, especially for the Iraq war. I don't believe we should be there. Why should I be forced to do something? I don't want to die, nor be called a sissy or anything else. Why should I go fight a war in a country which has had nothing to do with terror at all? If it was something like Iran attacking the U.S. directly, then my mind may be different, but I would try everything possible to avoid this unjustified war, and I would go to jail if I had to.

Originally posted by mwm1331



Devil wasp I dont know what the law is n the UK but in the US it is illegal to "dodge the draft" Your personal feelings are irrelevant. If your number is called you go. Period. Otherwise you are a criminal, and a traitor. Thats not an opinon it is a legal fact.

yeah its illegal here too, but why are you a criminal cause you dont want to fight a war?
also how are you a traitor? a traitor to who your country? because you didnt go to fight your a traitor? doubt it.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I can only say what I actually did when there was a draft. I joined the Marine Corps while in high school and left for Boot Camp eleven days after having graduated. And when it was all over, I came home and went on about my life, as best I could.

That was the smartest thing I ever did. Now, thirty-five years later, when people my age are pointing the finger at each other and questioning each others actions, motives and loyaties, mine are a matter of record and I can look any man straight in the eye, when it comes to my service.

The most pathetic thing to see is grown men hem and haw their myriad excuses for not having served and I love watching them do it. No man with a soul can ever feel good about having missed his opportunity to go to war to fight in the cause of freedom.

[edit on 04/10/20 by GradyPhilpott]

you like war? you like fighitng?
no man likes to fight.
missed his oppertunity? you can join the service any age after 16.

Originally posted by devilwasp
missed his oppertunity? you can join the service any age after 16.

I don't know about how it is in the UK, but men my age have missed their opportunity, unless it comes to fighting in our own streets.

Originally posted by socrepLT

Originally posted by mwm1331Those of you who would run or illegally avoid the draft are IMHO criminals, cowards, and traitors.

And I'm damn proud of it too. Oh, and nice generalization by the way.

Originally posted by mwm1331Whether you agree with the war is irrelevant they call you go.

So what you ae saying is that a persons ideals, beliefs, way of life, and moral values come in second when dealing with imperialistic wars started by their country?

Originally posted by mwm1331If you have moral objections to fighting in a war than be a man about it and do what Ali did. Announce your objections, and live with the consequences. Ali gave up the world heavy weight title to object to the war, but he didnt run like a bit*h.

That’s your plan? Say that you don't support it and then go fight anyway. That’s quite hypocritical there buddy.

1) its not a generalisation if you dodge the draft you are breaking the law. Is it a generalisation to say all murderers are criminals? Legally refusing to serve when drafted is treason.
2) yes a persons morals, beliefs, ethics, etc are irrelevant when drfted. Its the price you pay for being a citizen.
3) Uhhh Muhamed Ali never fought in vietnam. He stated he was a conscientious objector and refused to fight. He went to prison (I believe) and was stripped of his title but he did not go to war. He acted like a man and dealt with the consequences of his actions. If there is a draft and your morals will not allow you to fight you can do the same.

Let me explain something to all of you. This is not a matter of opinion. As a citizen of the US, in the event of a draft you are legally requred to report for duty. Thats all there is. your ethics, opinions, morals, way of life etc. is irelevant. They do not matter.

They do actually. Its just a matter of the consequence if you do, and the consequence if you don't......you have to have the guts to face up to either.

And it does matter, if morale collapses at the sight of mass rallys and arrests over a draft.....the physical, moral, political, diplomatic and financial costs of introducing a draft that couldnt do what the war itself hasnt.

TOTALLY f***ing up the USA.

As someone freindly to Americans - you dont need that kind of trouble. You have enough on your plate.