Whats your thoughts on the rapture , before during or after the great tribulation ?

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posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

You haven't read it have you

Read what, your post about a war on Israel, or do you mean Ezekiel 38 & 39?
I covered those chapters in the last thread about end of the world, or whatever.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
on the "World War 3 - is upon us !!! Rapture is Even Closer!" thread, where I watched the whole series of videos by this preacher, David Hocking, where towards the beginning of his talk read the entire chapter 38 of Ezekiel in the King James.
I read the chapters, along with reading a commentary on them, which is a very large, two volume set, in the Hermeneia series, on Ezekiel, by Walther Zimmerli. check out the book At list price they would be over $160 for the set, but I bought them as used copies and it cost me $75, which is still a lot, but worth it to know what the Old Testament prophecy was about, vs. what the hysterical doom cult takes it as.
edit on 23-9-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19




posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Go back and re-read what I said. Especially where I said my goal is to get people free from sin, not in perpetual sin cycles because their mind never changed about their sin.

Maybe you should explain that, some sort of forced repentance, where other people can succeed where God fails?
Or an incremental repentance?
Or numerous attempts to self jump-start repentance?
Or people don't feel scared enough or feel sinful enough to get motivated?
How do you have the cure for that, tell them stories about Armageddon?


No, I did explain it, gave examples, and articulated it quite well. Attempting to change behavior without first changing one's mind on something is called "behavior modification", and the effects are temporary. Another example would be like a husband who's wife wants him to stop gambling and threatens to leave him. He will stop for a period of time, but since he never changed his mind about gambling he will eventually revert back to that behavior. Generally that would happen at their first fight or big argument.


The behavior of a person is controlled by the mind, to be free of sin people need to change their mind first about their sin. They need to view sin and abhor sin like God does. Align their thinking with God.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by truejew
 


Quote where I said "Peter taught salvation by works". And you did deny 1 Corinthians 15, you said that isn't the gospel, even though it clearly says "this is the gospel", and you deny John 6 by both saying that faith is Christ can be manufactured apart from God, and that Christ would cast out some people who had their trust in Him and who had called upon His Name. In this thread you've said this.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


Quote where I said "Peter taught salvation by works". And you did deny 1 Corinthians 15, you said that isn't the gospel, even though it clearly says "this is the gospel", and you deny John 6 by both saying that faith is Christ can be manufactured apart from God, and that Christ would cast out some people who had their trust in Him and who had called upon His Name. In this thread you've said this.


I did not say those things.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The behavior of a person is controlled by the mind, to be free of sin people need to change their mind first about their sin. They need to view sin and abhor sin like God does. Align their thinking with God.

So you are promoting a doctrine of repentance as a human achievement?
That's what it looks like, that it is weak and flawed and that you should expect that.
You are therefore denying the power of God and the gift of the holy spirit, then fabricating a salvation theology based on something else, for example Jesus being punished vicariously for what we "owe" somehow, and then we are "saved" by believing that.
What you end up with is a false religion pretending to be Christianity but having none of the spirit in it, and replaced by a satanic spirit that infects people's minds to make them think they are already "saved" and turn off the Holy Spirit that convicts them of their sins, thus paving the way to continue in sin, and eventually ending up in hell.
edit on 23-9-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I'm not denying any of that. What I have noticed in my life is when I am tempted the Holy Spirit will immediately quicken a verse to mind giving a "way out" choice to make to flee from that temptation. That's why it's good to memorize scripture. God immediately calls it to mind when Im tempted. But I still have the free will choice to reject that leading of the Spirit and give into the temptation. God offers a way out, but He doesn't control a person like a robot.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


Quote where I said "Peter taught salvation by works". And you did deny 1 Corinthians 15, you said that isn't the gospel, even though it clearly says "this is the gospel", and you deny John 6 by both saying that faith is Christ can be manufactured apart from God, and that Christ would cast out some people who had their trust in Him and who had called upon His Name. In this thread you've said this.


I did not say those things.


Where is the quote you said I made claiming "Peter taught salvation by works"? Was that a lie? You claimed I said that so prove it. And yes you did claim those things. I said the gospel is laid out plainly in 1 corinthians 15, you denied that. I said faith in Christ is a gift of God as Christ said in John 6, that "no man" can come to Him unless the Father first draws that person to Him. You rejected that. I also said if any man trusts in Christ and calls on His Name he will never be cast out, and you rejected that.

Where is this quote of mine that you said I made that "Peter taught salvation by works"?



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


Quote where I said "Peter taught salvation by works". And you did deny 1 Corinthians 15, you said that isn't the gospel, even though it clearly says "this is the gospel", and you deny John 6 by both saying that faith is Christ can be manufactured apart from God, and that Christ would cast out some people who had their trust in Him and who had called upon His Name. In this thread you've said this.


I did not say those things.


Where is the quote you said I made claiming "Peter taught salvation by works"? Was that a lie? You claimed I said that so prove it. And yes you did claim those things. I said the gospel is laid out plainly in 1 corinthians 15, you denied that. I said faith in Christ is a gift of God as Christ said in John 6, that "no man" can come to Him unless the Father first draws that person to Him. You rejected that. I also said if any man trusts in Christ and calls on His Name he will never be cast out, and you rejected that.

Where is this quote of mine that you said I made that "Peter taught salvation by works"?


I did not say those things.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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Wow, confusion reigns!

I will be so glad when Jesus returns (physically) to the earth and clears up all this confusion.

Hi 5 to the self-recuser!



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


If you take the step of faith given by Peter, the Holy Spirit would remove the anger passed down to you by your religion's mother (the Pharisees).



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 



you said that what Peter said to do was salvation by works


Yes you did say that, on the last page. Show a quote of me saying this or apologize for lying. I never said this and you're lying. Where is this quote of me saying what you claimed I said above? And I'm not "angry", not at all. ATS is just a fun hobby, you're certainly not the first person here to lie about me or slander me.

Let's see this quote you said I made about Peter teaching "salvation by works".



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

Yes you did say that, on the last page.


I was not talking about that. I was talking about the other things you claim I said.



posted on Sep, 23 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

Yes you did say that, on the last page.


I was not talking about that. I was talking about the other things you claim I said.


First things first, show me this quote you said I made or apologize.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

First things first, show me this quote you said I made or apologize.


I do not follow the commands of the daughters of Mystery Babylon.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

First things first, show me this quote you said I made or apologize.


I do not follow the commands of the daughters of Mystery Babylon.


No, you were caught in a lie and you don't have the integrity to apologize. Don't name-call because you're too prideful to humble yourself and say sorry. I never said Peter taught salvation by works, you lied about that.

We're done. I forgive you.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You could not defend your doctrine against Peter's words. Instead of repenting of teaching false doctrine, you began to attack the messenger. You finish by running away.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by truejew
 


I'm not going to deal with a poster who outright lies about me and refuses to apologize for that. Have a good day.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


I'm not going to deal with a poster who outright lies about me and refuses to apologize for that. Have a good day.


I did not lie. We both know trinity churches accuse one God Churches of teaching salvation by works when we teach what Peter said. I also know that you lied about me rejecting John 6 and 1Cor. 15 and never offered quotes as you demand from me.

Someday you will have to deal with Peter's words.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


I'm not going to deal with a poster who outright lies about me and refuses to apologize for that. Have a good day.


I did not lie. We both know trinity churches accuse one God Churches of teaching salvation by works when we teach what Peter said. I also know that you lied about me rejecting John 6 and 1Cor. 15 and never offered quotes as you demand from me.

Someday you will have to deal with Peter's words.


I didn't lie, I said "first things first", I asked for the quote of me saying what you accused me of saying first. You refused numerous times to either provide that quote or apologize. So I'm not going to sit here and allow you to employ a red herring when you're confronted with a lie you told. You have three options, produce this quote of mine, apologize, or sit here and talk to yourself. If I was you I would man up and apologize for the lie and be done with it.



posted on Sep, 24 2012 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


I'm not going to deal with a poster who outright lies about me and refuses to apologize for that. Have a good day.


I did not lie. We both know trinity churches accuse one God Churches of teaching salvation by works when we teach what Peter said. I also know that you lied about me rejecting John 6 and 1Cor. 15 and never offered quotes as you demand from me.

Someday you will have to deal with Peter's words.


I didn't lie, I said "first things first", I asked for the quote of me saying what you accused me of saying first. You refused numerous times to either provide that quote or apologize. So I'm not going to sit here and allow you to employ a red herring when you're confronted with a lie you told. You have three options, produce this quote of mine, apologize, or sit here and talk to yourself. If I was you I would man up and apologize for the lie and be done with it.


As I said, I did not lie. However you did about John 6 and 1Cor. 15.





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