The God Paradox

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posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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I dreamed up this theory some years ago after thinking of the origin of species.

We started life as microbes, and through the thousands of years that followed life evolved from it. From the water, we crawled upon the land, and eventually through evolution attained the state we are now.

Now, we lost millions of years of evolutionary chance due to the fact of the Dinosaurs, and it was only after the asteroid impacted that we as a sentient species evolved and became the dominant form of life on Earth.

Imagine however, if we were the one race from the very beginning and had all those extra years of chance evolution without outside interference?

The point of evolution is to better your species through natural selection, you counter outside threats such as hostile creatures and enviromental issues through developing claws or chintinous armor, or in the case of humanity we developed intelligence.

Eventually though, what would be the limit of evolution? There comes a point where there are no further predators or outside forces that can interfere, a paradigm of perfection. At this point, would evolution simply stop?

Lets imagine it didn't, and we had a race that like us preferred intelligence over natural defences. The mind itself would continue to evolve over the course of millenia till the only threat to that minds existence would be the confines of time and matter itself. If such a being could evolve beyond the constraints of even them, as the ultimate predators left, then time and matter itself would become irrelevant.

Therefore, it is possible in that sitation that an omnipresent, omnipotent being which we would consider 'God' (regardless of -which- god we would choose to name it). It would exhibit the same levels of power we would expect from a being that could literally do anything with sheer force of will alone, with motivations and understand well beyond the comprehension of a mortal mind.

So the paradox would be, provided we don't destroy ourselves while we are still so young, we would have the possible potential to grow into the very beings some claim created us in the first place. The circle of mortality vs deity could be one that has been continuing on from the start of the universe itself.

Thank you for reading, a bit... heady I know, but an interesting thought became a solid idea.




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by Hyena
 


You do realize that, with practice, we could easily fulfill that criteria? We are little tiny gods in our own right. We're just too irresponsible, so TPTB put their foot down.

Edit: I see that's the point you were making. You're not the first, nor the last, to propose it. Personally, I think it's far more likely than some alternatives that we've been idolizing for the last few centuries.
edit on 19-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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Exactly my point, we'd need to transcend the petty squabbles we carry out as the little beings we are now to realise it.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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I like the idea of evolving for the better; but it seems that mankind is doing the opposite. I would say our bodies are growing weaker, mind included, and that any sort of evolution into a higher state of power is drifting away.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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Interesting idea however it strikes me that this could already have happened and the only way to carry on evolving for such a species was to start again. Create an artificial World with New logic for natural selection (evolution).Enter this world by birth into amnesia and see where it ends up. If you are already omnipotent and omni present where Else to go than back to the beginning? But this time around you also leave pointers in time and some part of you still in the omnipresent omnipotent state to guide your new existence. You set up rules for how the interaction is to take place between omnipotent you and amnesiac you so as to not spoil the game.... Then you watch as the new story unfolds. To make the game more fun you add set points in time were certain knowledge is released regardless of how far you have evolved when that time arrives. When enough data is collected or you bore of the game you come back to omni state, delete the artificial game and create a new one... And it all starts again

Lol I read your OP again and I'm now under the impression this is what you ment sorry if I miss understood you. My first impression was you were saying it hadn't happened to us yet.

Just thoughts
much love
edit on 19/9/2012 by IAmD1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 19/9/2012 by IAmD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by Hyena
 



Lets imagine it didn't, and we had a race that like us preferred intelligence over natural defences.


Jersey Shore, atomic bomb, MTV, rap, 16 And Pregnant, welfare for having 6 kids, obesity as a disease, alcoholics roaming the streets, drug wars, politics, 1% vs the 99%, etc.

We prefer intelligence, eh?




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I like the idea of evolving for the better; but it seems that mankind is doing the opposite. I would say our bodies are growing weaker, mind included, and that any sort of evolution into a higher state of power is drifting away.


Mankind is only one link in the chain of evolution. So from an over all perspective maybe the point is not of evolution to better any particular species but rather experiencing as many different states of being as possible. It is not interested in keeping a species past it's learning capability meaning a certain being only has the capacity to encompass so much of experience when it has reached full capacity it must be changed for another species in order to continue the experience. How does it do this? Well it self destructs so that only those that have the potential to evolve into the new species are left reproducing and carrying on the experience. Sometimes this might mean the whole creation is destroyed and a new one starts from the pieces that are left over and sometimes a small group is left that has the right genetics to evolve into something new? Sometimes they over lap so that the species that is about to die out can provide a threat to the new species to evolve past. If we add to it an omnipresence that is the ultimate experience then depending on what its ultimate goal is with the world it created for itself as the scene where this experiencing takes place the over all outcome will be a good or a bad one. In the end we learn from duality meaning we must experience pain in order to recognize what is not painful. We must know what is weak in order to recognize strong. So the more pain now the more joy later. Much like a video game in order to prove what we have learnt it has to become increasingly difficult to navigate. In our history as a species we've done and experienced much pain especially because of our mind and awareness. I for one believe the time has come to reap the fruits of that pain by entering into a more healthy and peaceful existence. But not before we have completed the pain cycle in full and learnt all the lessons. I think we are on the last leg of being the destructive warmongering species why those who are not yet ready to evolve into a more peaceful existence are in a panick right about now.

Much love



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by Hyena
 


If it is so feasible to you that mankind might birth its own god-consciousness, then how is it so incredible to you that God's consciousness preexists all things?

As well, remember that whatever you can imagine is already reality. You cannot imagine what is impossible; you can only imagine what is possible.

So then, do you not see that the reason your mind is capable of imagining such a great extent is because your mind is given to you by the Almighty God? But what you were given to see was the enormous extent of the mind and the universe. But then afterwards, after you realized this, you began to trace the steps to how this is possible according to your own understanding. Don't you see that you took what is true and attached to it a process that never took place - and therefore created the paradox for yourself?

But here there will not be a paradox. Life is the Everlasting. This universe procured from the Everlasting; therefore, this universe is a SUBSET of the Everlasting. Then the Everlasting, God, who is a Spirit, that is, the Mind, imparted His Mind into His creation - so the universe exists within Him, and also He entered Himself into that very same universe.

Maybe math will help you.

What happens when you take a piece of infinity and set it aside? Is anything subtracted from Infinity?

NO.

Can you take a finite subset from an infinite string?

Yes. Watch this. Oh wait, I already did it. That's how you are able to discern words and numbers in this physical form - boundaries - or else you would recognize nothing in the physical form. (but notice how ideas are much easier to understand when they enter into our mind and our hearts than when they enter into our eyes? Have you ever been explained something a million times but one day you were mowing your lawn and you said, 'OH! DUH!' - yeah, that moment.)

Now imagine the finite subset (our universe) is like water in a kitchen sink. In creating that universe, you allowed the sink to fill up with water. Then, in order to kick-start the life of that universe, you pulled the plug on the drain. Whammo. (why does spell check not want me to say, "Whammo"?) You get a whirlpool. So the waters are split by air entering into the sink drain and the waters form around that air tunnel. The universe is going to disappear if you don't do something, though!

So let's treat the kitchen sink faucet as the conduit from which all water enters into your universe, the kitchen sink. And lets consider that the water is itself the life of the living God. And let us consider that the source of the water, which only took its form by its elemental instructions, is the Almighty God, the Everlasting.

So the kitchen sink faucet must be continually running to continue to maintain that universe. Because the universe, your kitchen sink full of water, is in the state of a whirlpool, which is motion by means of the vacuum tube of air streaming down the drain, it will die if it is not continually fed. So the universe will appear static as long as the kitchen sink faucet is continually granted its water supply that the water may enter into the sink and maintain its process of filling/draining. A living universe, if you will.

But notice how the water first had to be given, the sink had to be made and plugged and the conduit, the faucet, placed over that sink, before that sink would fill at all. And then when the water, the life, was added to it, it had to be maintained for a period before the plug, the means by which the breath of God, air, or space, entered into it. Once the water level is full, the plug is pulled which allowed, in the mathematical metaphor, the infinite string to enter into the finite subset and yet the finite subset maintains and the infinite string simply passes THROUGH it - not becoming it, but allowing infinity to be viewed within that subset - as if there was a tiny observer somewhere in the water, watching infinity pass into the water and recording all the information - but that observer cannot rise above the water, neither can it enter into the drain without horrible consequences - but it can simply observe what passes through.

We are that tiny observer. We observe infinity. It is given to us to imagine it, to be a part of it. But we are still yet NOT infinite and can never become it of our own accord.

Except that the One who filled the kitchen sink grabs a glass, dips it into the sink, pulls us out with the water, in which we live, then constructs a device into which he can transplant us that will sustain us while we explore the world outside of the water.

We watch God pass through this universe. But we cannot catch Him, nor can we follow Him. We could not survive. He must take us out if we are to survive.

Try not to glorify yourself in what you imagine; it is not yours. It was given to you friend.

Please enjoy.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by IAmD1
I think we are on the last leg of being the destructive warmongering species why those who are not yet ready to evolve into a more peaceful existence are in a panick right about now.

Much love


You may be right, but I'm not sure there is any evidence to support the claim. Globally, births outweigh deaths by %100. As mankind gets closer and closer in proximity to each other, and resources come more and more scarce, there is a higher probability that strife, exploitation and war will not only continue, but escalate. I do think, however, that there will be many shifts in power. Whether they will be for the better or not we can only speculate.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


How do you think global extinction of the human race will begin? Overabundance of diverse human minds and scarcity of the resources we have been lead to rely upon.

There will be two roads from that point:

1) Engineer top-secret crop facilities and other forms of government-established resources by which to regulate the productivity and survival of the human race.

2) Initiate a worldwide war that decimates the global population, before using religion or some other mass-cult mind-control that will unite the entire human race under one government, which may possibly lead into option 1, or will just end up as an apocalyptic scenario, depending on how it's handled.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


How do you think global extinction of the human race will begin? Overabundance of diverse human minds and scarcity of the resources we have been lead to rely upon.

There will be two roads from that point:

1) Engineer top-secret crop facilities and other forms of government-established resources by which to regulate the productivity and survival of the human race.

2) Initiate a worldwide war that decimates the global population, before using religion or some other mass-cult mind-control that will unite the entire human race under one government, which may possibly lead into option 1, or will just end up as an apocalyptic scenario, depending on how it's handled.



I don't think there will be a global extinction of the human race unless the earth or sun makes it so.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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Tarzan,

It was never an argument I was making, merely a progression of thought I thought I would share.

However, your argument on infinity is invalid, as you cannot prove that the supernatural being you consider to be the almighty, created us and the universe. There is neither no proof that I can offer that he does not exist or it is not the case.

Please do not speak as if you are uttering facts, when you are making supposition equal to if not greater then my own. I do not 'glorify' myself, but simply am offering a different viewpoint.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:15 PM
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It tooks hundreds of millions of years for bacteria to make enough oxygen for life on Earth.

We destroyed it in 100 years.

We are not an intelligent species. What do you call something that devours the resources around it until it dies?

The Paradox is that humans consider themselves intelligent.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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Interesting thread, this kind of a compliment to my thoughts as well. Ill slim it down a bit, but anyways we are born for a purpose and the purpose guides us through life till we start realizing all of our knowledge, which through years of manipulation and brainwash, has slowed down completely and its coming down to an end, a select few people of my generation are awake and aware of this, but most are too sucked in, its almost like tou have to be chosen to know things and become awake, we are that part of evolution.
Just thought id add my realization to yours lol



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by LesMisanthrope
 


Agreed but we are not the only species I wonder how births outweigh death over all in all species. If we account for extinction of species and the evolution of new ones are there really more beings on the planet or just a shift in distribution?

Just a thought



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


How so I believe the homo species is at least 1.5 million years in the making with modern man accounting for about 50-100 000 years of existence if we are to believe archaeology. So what ever we are doing has been in the making for at least that long. But technology is advancing faster in recent times if that's what you mean as I am sure oxygen in the making speed up exponentially over time also. no?

They could be called evolution making way for something new....perhaps? In the end even bush fires that seemingly destroy everything in it's path has a purpose in the bigger cycle of change.



edit on 19/9/2012 by IAmD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


humm...... its allmost like we have a sin filled nature bent on destroying ourselfs and everything else.

every wondered why we turn every bit of tec into a weapon...

why we invent more ways to kill our selfs and everything else on the planet.

nothing is new under the sun.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by IAmD1
 


That makes sense, we are the strongest species so we kinda control population of other species, they slowly die off as we increase in population, we do create more by breeding but its still controlled, so i feel it would be just a change in distribution, but how would it be if other species did thrive? Would our life be different? Theres so much more to life then what most people know, if we wouldnt have messed it all up to what a "normal" life is now, would we still have been the most thriving species? Honestly i think life would be soo much more amazing then we could imagine but all the braimwashing by our goverment took that away



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Evolution does not stop, if it was to stop there would be no reason to live for any kind of species, It would be a dead life. That is the question that people stumble upon, what comes after intelligence? You don't need intelligence to figure this question out. It is a process of evolution that we will discover what surely comes after intelligence. It sure is a mysterious thing...~

As for your example, there is no creation. You have to understand that if there was creation, there would not be evolution. There would be not room for improvement, because the creation has been completed. Life would not be simply moving and changing, if there was my friend. I would use the term creating, the universe/me/you/everyone is constantly co-creating. I use the term creating because life is imperfect, evolution is there to perfect our selves.

And we will continue to evolve, do not limit your self to a god theory. If you are, you are just simply stunting your evolution.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by SparkOfSparks6
Evolution does not stop, if it was to stop there would be no reason to live for any kind of species, It would be a dead life. That is the question that people stumble upon, what comes after intelligence? You don't need intelligence to figure this question out. It is a process of evolution that we will discover what surely comes after intelligence. It sure is a mysterious thing...~

As for your example, there is no creation. You have to understand that if there was creation, there would not be evolution. There would be not room for improvement, because the creation has been completed. Life would not be simply moving and changing, if there was my friend. I would use the term creating, the universe/me/you/everyone is constantly co-creating. I use the term creating because life is imperfect, evolution is there to perfect our selves.

And we will continue to evolve, do not limit your self to a god theory. If you are, you are just simply stunting your evolution.


you are confusing evolution with natural selection mutations. but spoon fed iluminati "truth" leads to these kind of problems, im not going to even try to debate you on the matter, just try and do some real truth seeking for your self. propoganda is everywhere and truth is in short supply





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