If you are Black AND a Muslim, you should read this!

reply to post by DeadSnow


I said:

I don;t think most American Black Muslims are really hardcore Muslims.

Are you saying they are?

carried it forward because some of them don;t want to accept the "white man's religion".

There might be few black supporters who are religious

I don't think i generalized.

______________

are you African American by any chance? did you convert from Islam? If not how do you know?

Almost all the black guys i met who have Muslim names are not hard core. They eat pork etc. They don't even call themselves Muslim but if you been to their house, they would have Arabic writing etc. Maybe because newer generation do not follow religion.

why use the word BLACK instead of African American?

I don't see anything wrong with using White, Black? how is that wrong, its description, i have no ill intention when i use those words, and the title is addressed to "black and Muslim" does not say they have to be African-American.

majority of people in Africa are CHRISTIAN and not MUSLIM!

A quick Google search says 47% of religion in Africa is Muslim, rest is divided between Christianity, Hinduism, bahai faith and others.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
Why is it whenever someone criticizes Islam people gotta attack Christianity, even if the person who is criticizing Islam not a Christian?

It seems to be some sort of nonsense internet rule. I guess I'd call it internet rule number 188,

well not to derail my own thread, but I think it happens because of the same double standard in today's society, dont offend a black man, or jew, or an oriental, but offend the whites all you want. Call them honkey and cracker and whatever else, it isnt illegal. Christianity is largely a white religion.

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by RedParrotHead

 

I'm tired of people mentioning Sharia Law because they read it online, cmon now is that they only thing you guys can come up with. Perhaps if you read the book you may stumble across a lot of other excuses to hate a religion so similar to Christianity and Judaism that you know nothing of.

Do you know why they call them the Abrahamic religions religions?

have you even bothered to read this whole thread or just a few of the posts and then got your bonnet all twisted up. It has already been discussed over and over about christianity's evils as well. Not gonna rehash it.

Let me guess, you are black AND muslim? If so, thats your biz. This thread was started because I was curious about how blacks can follow a religion who persecuted their ancestors so badly?

I'm not black or Muslim.

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by DeadSnow

 

Wait, these people live by Sharia law. How many people have been executed because of breaking such laws? Do you read the news? When was the last time someone was killed by a government for "blasphemy" in any other religion?

Where I'm from I don't recall a single person getting killed for blasphemy or getting their limbs severed. You asked how many the government has killed for Blasphemy, well thousands and thousands.

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by DeadSnow

 

Wait, these people live by Sharia law. How many people have been executed because of breaking such laws? Do you read the news? When was the last time someone was killed by a government for "blasphemy" in any other religion?

excellent point! Just today I read where muslims are petitioning the UN to make it an international law that anyone who "insults" their religion is breaking the law. God only knows what the punishment would be.

Well then it looks like these fools that are doing so actually believe the UN was created for world peace.

Dead Snow: DO you live somewhere without Tv or radio or newspapers? Are you not familiar with the ambassoder and 3 others who were murdered because somebody in the US made a silly little film which "offended islam"?

They themsleves said thats why they killed them.

I don't get how people can be so blind in this day and age?

reply to post by Nana2


Sounds like you live somewhere with ONLY a tv...Do you really think the actions of some radicals on the margin represents the entire world of Islam.

Originally posted by Nana2
Dead Snow: DO you live somewhere without Tv or radio or newspapers? Are you not familiar with the ambassoder and 3 others who were murdered because somebody in the US made a silly little film which "offended islam"?

They themsleves said thats why they killed them.

I don't get how people can be so blind in this day and age?

Uh yeah I have no TV or Newspapers but still manage to get on ATS and type this...

Well an ambassador and 3 workers, that makes 4. What about all the middle easterners the US has killed since the war on terror, oh wait forgive me...since the hunt for Osama Bin Laden turned into the hunt for weapons of mas destruction which then turned into the hunt for Saddam and back to the Hunt for Osama and God knows what they hell they're still doing there.

Did I miss something? Really?

They're not in the US, the US is over there killing innocent people as well as rebels and Islamic radicals. Yeah I said Radicals, but there's a fine line between a civilian who would do anything under his/her power to create peace and equality, and someone that forces their religion onto others for personal or political reasons. Let's not forget who funded and trained these Islamic radicals.

I'm sorry if I'm not been biased or racist or maybe for being sympathetic towards these people you speak of as animals.

reply to post by DeadSnow

You asked how many the government has killed for Blasphemy, well thousands and thousands.

Alright, I'll be more specific. How many people have any non-Islamic governments killed for break laws specific to religious blasphemy - in modern times?

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
reply to post by DeadSnow

 

You asked how many the government has killed for Blasphemy, well thousands and thousands.

Alright, I'll be more specific. How many people have any non-Islamic governments killed for break laws specific to religious blasphemy - in modern times?

Please show me an Islamic government that is personally responsible for the killing of Christians?

As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed. Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain. Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.

Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer.". Pagan services became punishable by death in 356.

Christian Emperor Theodosius even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."

In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities.

The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.

Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany.

Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered.

15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown.

16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.

First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II.

Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands.

9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively.

Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents—save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres.
Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis.

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children).
(In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")

The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished."

Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone.

Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ".

Originally posted by DeadSnow

Originally posted by Nana2
Dead Snow: DO you live somewhere without Tv or radio or newspapers? Are you not familiar with the ambassoder and 3 others who were murdered because somebody in the US made a silly little film which "offended islam"?

They themsleves said thats why they killed them.

I don't get how people can be so blind in this day and age?

Uh yeah I have no TV or Newspapers but still manage to get on ATS and type this...

Well an ambassador and 3 workers, that makes 4. What about all the middle easterners the US has killed since the war on terror, oh wait forgive me...since the hunt for Osama Bin Laden turned into the hunt for weapons of mas destruction which then turned into the hunt for Saddam and back to the Hunt for Osama and God knows what they hell they're still doing there.

Did I miss something? Really?

They're not in the US, the US is over there killing innocent people as well as rebels and Islamic radicals. Yeah I said Radicals, but there's a fine line between a civilian who would do anything under his/her power to create peace and equality, and someone that forces their religion onto others for personal or political reasons. Let's not forget who funded and trained these Islamic radicals.

I'm sorry if I'm not been biased or racist or maybe for being sympathetic towards these people you speak of as animals.

you said you didnt know of anyone who had been murdered, etc in this??Should have known it was just a set up to bash America. While I agree the killing is many times by the US, and maybe not for something as "noble" as for being insulted, let's not forget the BILLIONS sent to those regions by AMERICA to aid them!

Who called them animals? You are jsut looking for a fight, nothing more.

They're not in the US? Are u crazy???

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Nana2

 

Sounds like you live somewhere with ONLY a tv...Do you really think the actions of some radicals on the margin represents the entire world of Islam.

I never said it did.

reply to post by RedParrotHead


Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/German.

Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims.

Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians.

The Albigensians...viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control.

Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Bezirs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends) 20,000-70,000.

Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed.
subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated.

After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324.

Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy alone), Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).

Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings.

John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415.

University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna.

Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.

source

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by DeadSnow

Originally posted by Nana2
Dead Snow: DO you live somewhere without Tv or radio or newspapers? Are you not familiar with the ambassoder and 3 others who were murdered because somebody in the US made a silly little film which "offended islam"?

They themsleves said thats why they killed them.

I don't get how people can be so blind in this day and age?

Uh yeah I have no TV or Newspapers but still manage to get on ATS and type this...

Well an ambassador and 3 workers, that makes 4. What about all the middle easterners the US has killed since the war on terror, oh wait forgive me...since the hunt for Osama Bin Laden turned into the hunt for weapons of mas destruction which then turned into the hunt for Saddam and back to the Hunt for Osama and God knows what they hell they're still doing there.

Did I miss something? Really?

They're not in the US, the US is over there killing innocent people as well as rebels and Islamic radicals. Yeah I said Radicals, but there's a fine line between a civilian who would do anything under his/her power to create peace and equality, and someone that forces their religion onto others for personal or political reasons. Let's not forget who funded and trained these Islamic radicals.

I'm sorry if I'm not been biased or racist or maybe for being sympathetic towards these people you speak of as animals.

you said you didnt know of anyone who had been murdered, etc in this??Should have known it was just a set up to bash America. While I agree the killing is many times by the US, and maybe not for something as "noble" as for being insulted, let's not forget the BILLIONS sent to those regions by AMERICA to aid them!

Who called them animals? You are jsut looking for a fight, nothing more.

They're not in the US? Are u crazy???

I don't see them walking around the US with guns and humvees do they? Pissing on holly books and taking pictures with corpses. You have got to be to think the US is not on the wrong here, it takes two to start a war. World police, uhhh yeah.

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
You could just as easily ask Europeans/white people why they all belong to a Church that has historically dominated and oppressed millions.

Thats not the point of this thread. Two wrongs dont make a right. The point of this thread is to ask the question- Why would you follow a religion that has a history of genocide, as well as enslavement , towards your people, all while you complain about similiar treatment from another group (whites)?

Get it? I dont see how they justify it?

What race of people has Islam wiped out?

How is that not the piont of the thread when you repeated exactly what patrick wrote just using different words.

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Nana2

 

Originally posted by Nana2
Why do you support a religion who in rather large numbers in some countries DO kill, etc?, after that religion killed so many of your own people

Why do millions of white Christians support a religion whose members HATE and who protest at soldiers' funerals? Why do they support a religion that, in the past, has killed millions of their own race?

How many times do I have to say it? Those who do such things in the name of religion are not doing it because that religion TAUGHT it to them, they are off on their own religious tagent. Whereas islam TEACHES violence.

Now, I am not a christian, I dont follow any manmade religion. Just using it as an example.

How do you know what being taught and whats not being taught to Muslims and Christians?

Are you Allah or Jesus and know all your followers thoughts and desires?

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by forklift
Christianity caused divisions, that's why you get separate black churches to whites.

In Islam you will see Blacks/Arabs/Asians/Whites all praying shoulder to shoulder in the same mosque.

ok fine, just as ridiculous that whites do it too. Since whites , although not in as large a number were also killed by muslims. THAT is not the point of this thread.

One simple quastion I really need your input on

When you say whites do you mean Caucasian?

How many of these whites you speak of are Muslim?

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Nana2

 

No, I didn't read the link because your point is nonsense. And I know the history. The buyer and sellers are no worse, completely complicit. The Christians provided the guns that turned Africa upside down. Christians preceded to colonize Africa in the 1800's. Christians were enslaving them overtly until1865, segregationally until 1963, and economically until today. You really can't see the link between slavery, segregation, discrimination, and current African American poverty? African Americans couldn't buy a house in a decent school district 50 years ago.

By the way, most African Americans are Christian, so why are you picking on a small segment? Why not allow some black communities to identify with a tradition other than the one that owned them as masters for a few hundred years. And why not allow them to choose a tradition that exists in high numbers among native Africans.

Honestly, you sound very bias and racist.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I can't even believe I'm arguing this.

You made my point exactly! Why would they follow ANY religion, that of whites, who admittedly have a bad history with treatment of them, OR that of islam, who ALSO has a bad history with their people? There is no difference, but for this thread's sake, I ONLY ASKED ABOUT THE MUSLIM PART!

That does not mean I think other religions should get a pass. Just narrowing it down.

Now I am laughing, WHAT exactly did I say that was racist or biased?? Can you quote me just one of my sentences where I did?

The old race card, never gets old to you people does it? When you can't legitamately argue a point you go back to that. I must have hit a nerve with you, are you a muslim who can't admit the evils of your own religion?

WHAT exactly did I say that was racist or biased??

Are you serious, using terms like whites, blacks, Muslims to describe whole groups of people is bigoted and racist when making judgements or having opinions as each one of these so called whites, blacks and Muslims are all individuals with individual thoughts. It might be hard for you to understand why a person would believe in what they do is because they choose to.

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Nana2

 

Whereas MUSLIMS have killing others who don't agree with their religion as one of the core teachings in their religion.

No they do not.
Provide some proof for such.

say whaaaatt? Read my post above with multiple quotes from their own religion. Their own "bible" per say, the Qu'ran.

Well if all we have to do is read posts to prove points then you are a racist and bigot.

I do not mean this as an insult just an observation of your posts.

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by BluFenix
reply to post by Nana2

 

Are you Christian? Why do you support a religion that killed people to convert them to Christianity many years ago?

There is hypocrisy in your words, friend. Please be aware of them when you speak.

I already stated I am not christian. I do not follow any manmade religion.

So what religion do you follow if its not man made?
2nd

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
I don't completely defend Islam, I just have a problem with people writing it off like you are. If these problems are to be solved and the world is to become more sophisticated in relationship to God, there can't be blatant disrespect to more than a fifth of the world.

And really, the theology is pretty much in line with other major religions when it comes to the biggest ideas.

My friend, I enjoy discussing with you, but honestly, what rock are you living under? What other religion advocates the violence, the rape, women being lower than cattle? What "biggest ideas" are in common with other religions? Are you referring to the kinder passages in islam religion. You DO realize that those were ONLY meant for the blind followers of islam dont you? Certainly not for the "infidels."

Why dont you join the military and go shoot yourself some Muslims over in Afgan.

You think they have all this hatred in their hearts, open your eyes and look in the mirror.

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by Nana2

 

Oh those ones taken out of context? The ones about fighting back against armies and peoples that attacked them? Gotcha!

Here's some verses from the Bible you might want to brush up on before you go running around willy nilly like you are.

Numbers 31:17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Joshua 10:28And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho. 29Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.31And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.

2 Kings 2:23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2 Kings 15:16Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.

Psalms 137:9Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Ezekial 9: 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

Hosea 9:16Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

Hosea 13:16Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Won't someone think of the children!?

You need to get YOUR facts straight. Everything you quoted is from the old testament. Christians as a whole, follow the NEW testament. Now, I am NOT defending christianity at all! I happen to beleive that ALL man made religions are worthless.

edit on 19-9-2012 by Nana2 because: (no reason given)

Out of context passages from the Qur'an false claims as to what Christians follow. Labeling whole groups of people and I thought the other Muslim bashing Thread "western concept vs Islamic concept of War was bad.