Oh, The Irony!

Those of us who hang out in the political forums of ATS are well aware of the animosity between the two main political parties...Donkeys and Elephants...because it is spilling over to a certain degree in our own midst even though I do think we all try to keep our cool even when our blood might be nearing the boiling point.

I read an editorial piece at Mother Jones last night that pretty much sums up the situation and I thought I would post it so that those who aren't quite sure what the dynamic is, that we all seem to be caught in, is all about, might glean a bit of clarity about it.

(...)
And there's another irony here that I find impossible to ignore.

Since 2007, Barack Obama's rivals have treated him almost like a monster of myth who could be defeated with the right tool. Since the apocryphal "whitey tape," an odd, false rumor about a tape purportedly showing the president's wife using a racial slur to refer to white people, conservatives have sought the holy grail that would end Obama's career, convinced that a pliant media has simply refused to unearth it—or worse, were deliberately hiding it to protect their hero. From the absurd conspiracy theories of Obama's birth and religion to the late Andrew Breitbart's website exposing the terrible truth that Obama once hugged an old man who spent much of his life fighting racial apartheid, conservatives have sought not only to obstruct Obama's agenda, but to expose him as the greatest hoax ever—American history's most terrible fraud.

The GOP has finally seen that silver bullet. Only it's not aimed at the guy they were trying to take out.

The Obama of conservative nightmare is not merely a bad president or one who pursues policies they disagree with, but a committed radical, a racist who hates white people so much that he would deliberately drive America to ruin and submit the nation to foreign—even Islamist—domination. Those on the right knew their worst assumptions about the president were true; they felt this in their souls. And nothing—from Obama's hawkish foreign policy to his embrace of a nationalized version of Romney's own universal health care plan in Massachussetts—would persuade them otherwise. One day, they would prove it: a college thesis, video of a speech, an unguarded utterance that would reveal, for all the world to see, the True Barack Obama.

Now fate finds Republicans, in the waning days of the 2012 campaign, faced with video of one candidate expressing his total contempt, his unfettered disdain for half of the country. Only it's not the guy they've been trying to take out. It's the guy they nominated.

There's something poetic about that. Particularly since the Mitt Romney in the video, sincere or otherwise, is nothing if not the exact candidate conservatives wanted, a being of their own creation. They built that.

That pretty much sums up the political moment, in my opinion.
I am not a fortune teller but I predict this will be labeled lies/spin/desperation on my part.

Au contraire, my conservative friends...it is merely poetic justice.


On the far side of things, it might even suggest that there possibly IS a God...a God of truth who, btw...is apparently a bleeding liberal socialist in the most extreme measure.



Oh, the irony!
I love Irony. I think she is Karma's cousin but I'm not sure.

reply to post by queenannie38

It doesnt make any difference.

Obama, Romney are both on the same team. They both work for the elites, special interests, Wall St. and the Military Industrial Complex.

Obama has followed in Bush's footsteps, Romney would follow in Obama's.

The overseas spending on wars would remain constant or increase, the attack on our Constitutional rights would continue, the ever growing TSA style police state would only get bigger, bailouts of Wall St., the big banks and the Federal Reserve would continue, spending and debt will bubble...

Awesome thread, brilliant presentation and an astute observation. I very much like your posts, although i have to admit, i was slightly disappointed with the arguments you've put forward about Romneys past, in your debate with Druid42.

There are are two shadows that I find hanging over Mr. Romney's Presidential hopes that do bear some relevance on his candidacy and potential future as POTUS.

The man didn't care if his empire, the work of his life he's so proud of, was partially funded and build up with blood money. And apparently his work ethics, business practices, his philosophies haven't changed ever since.
When trying to find a prime example what kind of leader he would be, one doesn't need to look any further.

I love Irony too, but she seems to be a double-faced deity. The Obama Presidency should actually be a 'wet dream' for all the real conservatives, because it has become a nightmare too, for all those who believed in his message of Hope and Change four years ago.
The one who was supposed to unite the Nation, end the war and build bridges between all creeds and cultures, has left the world divided once more. The Nobel Peace Prize Winner who's drone-striking innocent civilians.

When basing the decision of who should win the race for the White House and become the next President of the USA, the leader of the free world, on who has more moral integrity, honesty and principle, then all i can say is ... two out.

So, who's left to save the country from endless decline and mutually assured destruction...



hint: ... it could be the one reading this right now.

Good Morning America

reply to post by queenannie38


Excellent! Really great article.

Many of the people Romney has dismissed as moochers are part of his own base.

It's hard to say if this is how Romney really feels or not (who knows?), but the fact that he DOES want to redistribute even MORE money to the "upper crust", while practically shouting "Socialism"! about his opponent is irony, indeed! The GOP believes in redistribution, too. They just lie about it. They call it "tax cuts"...

I pay a larger percentage in taxes than Romney does. I pay ALL my taxes and I don't try to cheat by hiding my money elsewhere. How anyone can trust this person who cheats them out in broad daylight - and brazenly admits to - it is a mystery...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


romney paid how many millions of dollars last year in taxes?

how many millions did you pay?

the percentage argument is just stupid.

and the article is worthless gloating about a secret video that changes nothing.

it doesn't take out romney, in fact it will probably help him.

reply to post by queenannie38


F&S for the OP!

An excellent article that seems to hit the nail squarely on the head.

I've been saying this for quite some time; The GOP has somehow morphed itself into the party of opposites, in that every evil thing they accuse the democrats of doing, is in fact, exactly what they themselves are doing as they speak. It's really a weird thing to witness, especially when they don't even see themselves doing it. Even after it's been pointed out to them in articles such as this one. They're just a little delusional, to say the least.

Oh, the irony!

reply to post by bjax9er

Originally posted by bjax9er
romney paid how many millions of dollars last year in taxes?

how many millions did you pay?

I thought the Tea Party supported a FLAT TAX! If I made millions, I'd pay my FAIR SHARE, and I wouldn't go hiding my income so I could cheat Americans out of the benefits of the taxes I owed.

the percentage argument is just stupid.

Yeah, when it's inconvenient, it's stupid, right?

Originally posted by bjax9er
the percentage argument is just stupid.

No, the percentage argument is quite germane to the conversation. At the very least!

What is this remarkable propensity of the Right to enable the people that are happily screwing them?

reply to post by talklikeapirat

Awesome thread, brilliant presentation and an astute observation. I very much like your posts, although i have to admit, i was slightly disappointed with the arguments you've put forward about Romneys past, in your debate with Druid42.

Thank you to the first part and I have to agree with you on the second part! That was what, 7-10 days ago and I felt like it was years ago and I was a naive teenager reading it again last night. The amount of 'dirt' I've uncovered since then truly makes him look like a boy scout in that initial effort to expose.

I truthfully had intended to approach my side of the debate strictly from the position I already had, that he simply isn't the right kind of businessman for the national economy; that I think it is more like a family household economy than a corporation....and that he's lacking congressional experience and political experience (outside of failed campaigns) in general...maybe include that his religion and personal 'morals' would dictate rules for all of us which is unconstitutional...et. al. But Druid, being the host of the debate, brought up the idea of 'scandal' which is not something I had even thought of because that's just not as relevant, to me, as actual ability and experience...

I should say wasn't relevant, that is. Scandal to me is a somewhat drama-queen idea...half truth and half wishful thinking on the part of the accuser of any particular scandal, aided by some degree of secrecy and/or privacy. So I went from there, since the rules of debate demanded I answer Druid's Socratic questions. Now it seems so inadequate and skimpy on details...of course, with the character limit on posts governing the 3 part debate setup in that forum, I could have not given it the attention warranted in the space available, anyway. As it was, I really had to pare down my rebuttals.

I think I should take the time and present all that I've found since then in this forum, after reading your reply here and thinking about it just a bit.

The man didn't care if his empire, the work of his life he's so proud of, was partially funded and build up with blood money. And apparently his work ethics, business practices, his philosophies haven't changed ever since.
When trying to find a prime example what kind of leader he would be, one doesn't need to look any further.

EXACTLY.
He's made herculean efforts to conceal or remove incriminating details and facts, but the fact is, one can't conceal one's essential character indefinitely. Especially when it is so heinous and yet not perceived as anything out of the ordinary by Romney, himself.

I love Irony too, but she seems to be a double-faced deity. The Obama Presidency should actually be a 'wet dream' for all the real conservatives, because it has become a nightmare too, for all those who believed in his message of Hope and Change four years ago.
The one who was supposed to unite the Nation, end the war and build bridges between all creeds and cultures, has left the world divided once more. The Nobel Peace Prize Winner who's drone-striking innocent civilians.

When basing the decision of who should win the race for the White House and become the next President of the USA, the leader of the free world, on who has more moral integrity, honesty and principle, then all i can say is ... two out.

I've learned a lot about the controversial issues with Obama's presidency, too, with some really deep research, before even the Romney research. I have been considering a thread on what I've discovered doing that, too...and I still should...given the amount of hate for Obama, though, I really felt daunted at the prospect and felt that it wouldn't be taken seriously for what it was but just trolled and attacked. Not that I care from a personal POV, but I don't have the time to invest unless it would serve the purpose of getting people to look PAST what we are given to accept without question.

The truth is, up until a few months ago, I was upset with Obama, too, for the same reasons but based on my own perception of what he was and was not doing in spite of the negative attitude and general hate propaganda coming from the right. But I wasn't looking, really, for any reasons why...I don't know how it started but my mind is totally reformed from what I was thinking before, and removing the emotion from the whole thing in my mind and through my research without feeling I was trying to change my own mind...changed my mind decidedly.

So, who's left to save the country from endless decline and mutually assured destruction...



hint: ... it could be the one reading this right now.

Good Morning America

Meaning WE THE PEOPLE?
I think that's all we've got...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thank you, BH...I think that the overwhelming consensus is that Obama has screwed us all under the guise of wanting to help us more than Romney ever could think of doing on purpose.

However, that's not the case and it is aided by the fact that we base our political decisions, for the most part, in the same place we make our purchase decisions...emotions! And having a hard time for so long has really made us susceptible to misrepresentations and even more unwilling to look into things than usual. Plus I think most people have the idea, even if they don't realize it, that politics is something beyond the everyday person's ability to both understand or influence...and there is so much in life we NEED to do...that we just believe the ads...it works for kitchen cleansers...it ought to work for the President, too, right?

Wrong.

reply to post by bjax9er


We only have Romney's 2010 tax return for reference, but he made just under $22 million from dividends and capital gains...no income proper to be taxed as income...and he paid $3 million in taxes which is about right with a tax on capital gains at 15%.

So he is being honest about paying everything the law requires.

It's the law that asks little of him but much more from others such as BH....Obama himself paid around twice that rate on his returns, consistently. All his investments are apparent and accounted for, with his income drastically increasing in the last few years from the sale of his two books compared to his former salary as a US Senator...and his investments are modest college funds for his girls and personal investments are a retirement account and the rest is in US Treasury bonds.

It would be nice if we all just had to pay tax on capital gains but how many of us survive on just capital gains and dividends? What he made on that tax return is a pittance compared to his true wealth...that which we know about.

I'm not begrudging anyone's wealth...only the kind of superior attitude along the lines that it makes them more qualified to be an American or something...and the idea that he 'worked hard' to make that wealth is an outright lie..although to him, it is truth.

reply to post by Flatfish


Yep!
On bad days...it makes me want to bang my head against the wall...and I'm not that kind of person!



Politics! Go figure. I thought the only thing that would significantly change in this decade of my life was my eyesight.

The only HOPE is CHANGE

Line 2

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by bjax9er
the percentage argument is just stupid.

No, the percentage argument is quite germane to the conversation. At the very least!

What is this remarkable propensity of the Right to enable the people that are happily screwing them?

Well, I guess it is because being a liberal socialist is so inherently EVIL?

Although I admit I'm still not sure WHY.

Thank you, Mitt, for bringing out the best (so far) in Jon Stewart's comedic genius.

reply to post by bjax9er


Yes...words matter. No doubt about that. However, words without context...especially re-mixed as in this video...compounded by a lack of proper research into the details and situations are no better than statistical surveys when they are done to fit an agenda...are basically propaganda. And the truth of why propaganda works is twofold: it capitalizes on ignorance (not stupidity which isn't fixable but ignorance which is) for a foundation and uses emotions, usually fear and uncertainty and doubt, as power.

I have some responses to the video you posted...but I don't want it to seem as if I am coming down on you or criticizing your contribution to this thread, because I'm not. I appreciate you for both. I'll post them in a separate post for that reason, but please read it if you have the time.

Well, evidently the video was in violation of ATS T&C and removed for that reason...I will just leave it at that, then...because the points I wanted to make would be better included in one of the two threads I am now planning on doing in the next couple of days if all goes well in my non-cyber world allowing me the time and space to accomplish the task.

reply to post by queenannie38


Just watched the John Stewart video. He nailed it. Too bad Mitt's not Latino! Great stuff!