Should Smokers Pay Extra Taxes For Universal Healthcare?

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posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
As long as the following groups also pay more:

The Elderly.
The Obese.
The Perpetually Sick ( as in, disease you can't get rid of)

SEe what a slippery slope that one is?

~Tenth


Absolutely not
Smokers chose to smoke
the elderly do not chose to be elderly
Not every obese choses to be obese
And same thing can sometimes go for the 3rd

The whole point of the thread was people who CHOSE to smoke

Choice is the main topic of the thread



Alcohol use is a "choice" and despite what we're led to believe, at the end of the day alcohol kills/maims more people than cigs do.

And if I "choose" not to drive. Why should i pay the same as drivers?

Since i dont drive, can i smoke?

Maybe everyone should get one free unhealthy/life endangering activity to do. But, if you wanna smoke AND drive, or drink AND eat fast food, or skydive AND have unprotected sex, well THEN you gotsta pay extra.
edit on 9/19/2012 by Firewater because: changed "and" to "AND".




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 01:16 AM
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Why would it be "unfair" for healthy people to help pay for healthcare needed by the sick? Just because you are healthy with no need for medical care at the current moment? Chances are very high that some day you will need medical treatment. And when you do, it would be FREE. Dont think that just because, up until this point of your life, youve managed to avoid the need for any surgery, medications or extended hospital stays. That almost certainly will, eventually, not be the case. Paying for others healthcare now, INSURES that your imminent care is paid for.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 01:27 AM
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First, smokers already pay a ton of extra tax on cigarettes and tobacco products. Where does that money go?

I do not think they should have to pay extra they should just have to be respectful to others when smoking. If you start a standard like that, then you have to tax everyone who does any potentially life threatening activities. It's already been mentioned a bunch of times. You'd have to tax everyone who does anything remotely fun.

The whole purpose of universal healthcare is so everyone gets equal level of healthcare.

Taxing smokers more than they are already being taxed is a can of worms that should not be opened.
edit on 19-9-2012 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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Health insurance rates should reflect the habits of the individual, regardless of whether the insurer is the government or a private sector company.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by Hushabye
I grow plants that cleanse the air- do I get a discount?


Very interesting....

Completely off topic but.....what plants are you talking about? Maybe you can start a thread about these plants and what they exactly do.....? I can hardly belief that I am the only one interested in these plants at ATS.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by TedHodgson

Smokers pay more Tax than than non-smokers! Half the price of a pack of cigarettes is tax these days if not more, smokers pay for their healthcare (if needed) in full.


Well, i just payed $3.73 for Marlboro's at kroger. The excise tax added was only 51 cents, so not quite half.
I wish a pack cost a $1.02, but sadly it does not
(



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 

The elderly have no choice over their situation and should not be penalized for it, that was basically the point of the question.... should those who make a choice that harms their health pay more? Which would mean the obese should as well as smokers. Those who are perpetually sick, if it is not from a poor choice of life habit, should be covered as we need to take care of those less fortunate than ourselves. Smoking is a stupid habit. We have known about its ill effects for a very long time now. Being obese can have a variety of reasons.... inability to afford decent food, inability to exercise due to physical limitations, but in general, its also a lifestyle choice. Even with not so good food or less exercise, you can still eat a lower amount of calories, and for that matter, possibly eat healthier in exchange for less food. But to put smokers in the same category as elderly is unfair. Maybe raise tobacco taxes even further and put it towards additional healthcare for smokers while at the same time possibly deterring smoking due to higher cost. For our society to still allow kids to take up smoking is inexcusable. There are NO benefits from smoking that can't be found elsewhere in a healthier fashion. Why is it 99% of smokers take it up at a young age? It's a peer pressure, follow fashion, mimic others habit. Who likes their first cigarette?



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:47 AM
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In the country I am in (which has a multipayer system, with social security for the employed) smokers DO pay more.
There is a very high (and cosntantly rising) tax on cigarettes.
There is also higher tax on alcohol, soda drinks, junk food like candy.
Those who drive recklessly also pay more through the tickets and fines they get, radars (both fixed and mobile) increase that.
There are higher taxes on gasoline and diesel and other gases used for fuel and heating,
and special lowered taxes if you install systems such as solar panels which are environment friendly (those poisoning the air more pay more).

So it is possible to make people who raise risks pay more.
But personally? I know five people in my life that recently died of lung cancer and never smoked in their life!
A cousin dropped down dead of heartattack while out on his daily run, and he ran marathons, did all kinds of sports, ate vegetarian, never touched alcohol or cigarettes!
As much as it is nice to believe we can control our destiny through our conscious choices (isn't that a great idea? Makes my ego feel so secure and powerful!!!!!) reality tends to bite us in the arse and remind us sometimes of the contrary......



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Ok, firstly I am against universal healthcare first and foremost
I think it's wrong and absurdly inneficient and immoral.

Now with that said, if such a system is forced down my throat should Smokers Pay more taxes for healthcare?

The Amount of money being poured on smokers is ridiculous
And it seems wrong to me that smokers pay equal amount of taxes but as a group take up so much in healthcare costs under a univseral system

Thoughts?


That is really just a stupid idea, the idea of universal healthcare is healthcare that is universal to everyone. Why should we make smokers pay more? Considering that cigs are so heavily taxed as it is. What about people who make near or sub poverty level income? They sure don't contribute anything, why don't we start some indentured servitude program? It really is no different than charging smokers more when you think about it. The whole anti-smoking thing is just more leftist crap. While they preach about the right being anti-choice and how they have no right to make laws on abortion the left makes its self out to be "pro" choice. Well what happens when I want to smoke, drink a large soda or eat trans fats? Is everyone still pro choice then?



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:04 AM
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I am a smoker of almost 13 years, and I have paid more than my fair share of taxes on these little cancer sticks. I understand that my addiction posses's risks of health problems to others, but I make sure not to smoke around anyone but other smokers. Never around kids or in public places. Now, again, I think I pay too much taxes as is on my Cigarettes, but I wouldn't mind seeing the current cigarette taxes being used to fund different air pollution cleansing projects, or using it to help victims of second hand smoke....


I cant even comment on whether I think it should go to universal healthcare, because I do not believe health care is something that should be forced on anybody, whether it has to be payed out of their pocket or out of the tax payers wallets.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I've just quit smoking (clean for 12 days now) and I was discussing with my brother just how dangerous second hand smoke really is for young children. There is so much evidence supporting how much damage second hand smoke does to young children! And of course all of the cigarette butts littered on the pavements.

edit on 19/9/2012 by Kluute because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:26 AM
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Originally posted by Kluute
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


This is a good idea, I've just quit smoking (clean for 12 days now) and I was discussing with my brother just how dangerous second hand smoke really is for children and teenagers of the world. There is so much evidence supporting how much damage smoke does to young children!
edit on 19/9/2012 by Kluute because: (no reason given)


No there is not, there is ZERO evidence NONE to back up the claim that second hand smoke is dangerous to anyone. It is more propaganda for the ignorant.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by Superhans
 


Don't be so naive man!

If the first hand smoke causes cancer then inevitably second hand smoke will cause some (maybe not as much) damage too. It's not exactly going to be good you?

Humans have common sense for a reason so use it!

www.healthlinkbc.ca...
www.cancer.org...
www.epa.gov...
www.entnet.org...
www.lung.ca...
quitsmoking.about.com...

I live in the UK and twenty cigarettes now costs around £6.74!
edit on 19/9/2012 by Kluute because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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No. Not anymore than a drinker or a prescription drug user or a fast food addict. The very idea is wrong.

The very idea of Universal" health care is health care for everyone. Equally. This just adds an element of division and penalty for political correctness to an already divided and penalized society.
edit on 19-9-2012 by missvicky because: to add stuff.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Ok, firstly I am against universal healthcare first and foremost
I think it's wrong and absurdly inneficient and immoral.

Now with that said, if such a system is forced down my throat should Smokers Pay more taxes for healthcare?

The Amount of money being poured on smokers is ridiculous
And it seems wrong to me that smokers pay equal amount of taxes but as a group take up so much in healthcare costs under a univseral system

Thoughts?


My thinking isn't allowed so let me illustrate the facts so even an ignorant Stalinist could understand it: Smokers don't cost society a thing. If anything they help fund society via outrageous taxation. Smokers more often then not die well before their time.

Personally, anyone in favor of Universal healthcare programs(which the OP is because he/she wouldn't even go here unless they supported it, op= a dishonest activist trying to spread a meme and build up anti smoker support) doesn't belong in America period.

As socialism/communism was an intended replacement for the absolute French feudal monarchy. So if you like feudalism no matter how you dress it up, move to a third world country, Seriously, because waste of space feudalistic cowards is what is bringing down our Constitutional way of life.

That is why the rich support communism/socialism(some rich), because it is FEUDALISM! Or rather post Industrial Feudalism. Just like in the dark ages, the rich where the center of attention and used Consumption law's(law's prohibiting people from lower classes from owning certain items) to stay that way. As only they had access to the finer minerals, cloth and goods.

Very much akin to how they use the Credit Reporting System to keep people in the "lower classes" in there place. That what this is all about, keeping people in there place, as perceived by control freak pscyhopaths and sociopaths.

You have a problem with smoking, don't smoke. Me? I stopped smoking over a year ago. But once we travel down this road we all end up as absolute slaves. Because everyone who thinks they "know better" will start using the same rational to force their twisted thoughts onto other people.

Ate a burger last month? I am sure there is some unnatural vegan or vegetarian who would love to make your life harder because of it. Heck there are still oodles of prohibitionist's out there waiting for another crack at helping the mob out. And then there are some people who just like to make other people suffer because they can.

Think before you speak as words can travel and afflict our world in way's we cannot in the present perceive yet.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:42 AM
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In a word, no.
*disclaimer* I am smoking a cigarette as I type this.
edit on 19-9-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 04:01 AM
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I read the entire "ObamaCare" Bill passed into law.

Effective 2014 anyone who smokes will be forced to pay 1.5 times as much for the new mandatory "healthcare" tax America soon will have.

Also in the new law, DON'T LIE....if you lie and say you don't smoke and they catch you lying it's a $250,000 FINE.

Smokers ARE going to pay extra taxes just for being SMOKERS. The sad thing is that alcoholics will pay the normal rate and they actually have a higher cost of healthcare due to the diseases they give themselves drinking booze like a sailor in port every night.

Poor poor America.....smoking used to pretty safe. They are trying to get everyone to stop smoking because the tobacco plant leaf has absorbed radioactive elements and stores them in the leaf. It's only the last 60 years or so that tobacco plant leafs are now radioactive.....fallout + the fertilizer growers are using contain...radioactive elements.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 04:02 AM
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Originally posted by Rubicant13
In a word, no.
*disclaimer* I am smoking a cigarette as I type this.
edit on 19-9-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)


...and you are proud of this forrrrrrr why? Seems sort of ignorant to me.

Certain people do things such as willingly put toxic smoke into their lungs all day long, which WILL cause health issues, and then complain about possible future costs. Not only that, we have multiple smokers here complaining about how much these nasty things cost right NOW, without this imaginary scenario adding to it.

Hey, if it costs so much, stop.

Should people who willingly put toxins in their body have to pay more to make up for health issues that will arise later? Yes, it just makes sense. Why should someone who poisons their body pay the same amount as someone who lives a completely healthy life? Yes, it is all about CHOICE, which has been pointed out many times here in this thread. This includes the CHOICE you make when you smoke, drink, etc. If making those choices mean you have to pay more and you are upset about that, than you can CHOOSE to live a more healthy life AND have more money in the bank. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 04:03 AM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Then I guess drinkers, sports car drivers, athletes, gas station clerks should pay more. Anyone who does anything dangerous I guess?



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by Kluute
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


This is a good idea, I've just quit smoking (clean for 12 days now) and I was discussing with my brother just how dangerous second hand smoke really is for children and teenagers of the world. There is so much evidence supporting how much damage smoke does to young children!
edit on 19/9/2012 by Kluute because: (no reason given)


No there is not, there is ZERO evidence NONE to back up the claim that second hand smoke is dangerous to anyone. It is more propaganda for the ignorant.


It is actually ignorant and disrespectful to force children to deal with second hand smoke. You can bring up your whole 'no evidence' BS all day long, use your brain. Putting smoke into your lungs, smoke that comes from a product with a cancer warning label right on it, can NOT be good for you, and here is the hard part, you may have to use your brain...if it is bad for you, than it is ALSO bad for those in the house that are forced to breathe this all in.





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