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Should Smokers Pay Extra Taxes For Universal Healthcare?

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posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by watchitburn
No, people who eat garbage and don't exercise regularly should.

I smoke 2 packs a day, And I guarantee you that I am healthier and more physically fit than 99% of the American population.
edit on 18-9-2012 by watchitburn because: (no reason given)


If thats you in your avatar, I'd agree




posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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Everyone is making some good points here, but I would like to broaden the topic at hand.

Perhaps that real decision weather or not to tax individuals that participate in activities that are adverse to their health, should be subject to a countries culture and domestic policies.

Perhaps in the US context the taxation of gluttons and smokers would be appropriate as ultimately it's a populations willingness to support their fellow citizens and if people feel that portions of the population must pay more for the same service, then why not. In Canada I feel that it's in the populations genuine interest to help those who are sick or becoming sick regardless of the means by which they got there.

edit on 18-9-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by MDDoxs
 


Dont' tax the person, tax the product in that case.

If I'm a smoker that never gets lung cancer, why should I have to pay more income tax if I've never gonna be treated?

As is here in Canada, which I was happily corrected on earlier in this thread, Goods and Services tax could go towards paying for healthcare.

Taxes on cirgarettes do that. Taxes on fatty foods, sugars and other 'health harming' things would do the same.

~Tenth



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


And alcoholics, drug addicts, extreme sports enthusiasts, cops, firemen, those who don't exercise, atheletes...and on it goes...genetic disorders...



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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Here in Australia the revenue from Tobacco far outweighs the cost to the health system.

The Collins & Lapsley reports state that Tobacco and Alcohol are both beneficial to the state and federal budgets.

That fact doesn't stop many asking the same question as the OP. Misinformation is rampant around this subject.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Fat people choose to eat. Mostly. I'm not saying there aren't any legit reasons to be 300 pounds, but mostly there isn't. These people CHOSE this path out of apathy for their current state.


Obesity and being fat are two different things
Obesity can be hereditary

So again the issue is choice


Hereditary? A healthy diet can also become hereditary. Might not help the immediate person but down the track it will benefit if they decide to have children



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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Try it from a different angle. If masses of people cancelled their health insurance somebody might notice we're Pi$$ed off at their continuous up the ante and blame everyone else games. Save the money you'd give somebody else to MAYBE give back if you need it. And in case you do need to see the doc, all I can say is let the patient beware. Find one that isn't in the matrix.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by 369821
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


If you target one group, you have to target them all. Dont forget about alcoholics, drug addicts, people with spinal cord injuries, diabetics.........
Cant pick and chose.


Really? People don't choose to have a spinal injury, people don't choose to have diabetes. People DO choose to smoke, which is not only unhealthy for them, but others around them(including the kids who have to grow up in the same house). People DO choose to drink alcohol.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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I can't wait for the day when scientists discover that granola, wheat grass, and smugness all cause cancer!
I will show up on Capital Hill with a beer in one hand, a smoke in the other, and demand my equal rights!

Then I'm gonna go lick more asbestos!
Mmmmm... More asbestos!



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Fat people choose to eat. Mostly. I'm not saying there aren't any legit reasons to be 300 pounds, but mostly there isn't. These people CHOSE this path out of apathy for their current state.


Obesity and being fat are two different things
Obesity can be hereditary

So again the issue is choice


You can call it hereditary all you want, the fact of the matter is you wont become obese by eating salad and being active every day. Obesity is a choice, being fat is a choice, like it or not.

Simple concept: Eat different + move more = not so fat



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Should people who live on junk food pay increased taxes? How about drug addicts, alcoholics, pharmaceutical pill poppers, people addicted to sugar, lazy non active people, obese people...................I believe we could make the list endless.

That being said you cannot make one exception to the rule and forget the rest. That would be inclusive of the majority of the population.
edit on 18-9-2012 by Egyptia because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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Perhaps you should have to pay more if you're an alcoholic, or you're overweight, or if you take drugs.

It would be easy to come up with voluntary risk factors. If you choose to do the risky behaviors, then you should pay more.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Just for some context.

Source


Despite these risks, approximately 46.6 million U.S. adults smoke cigarettes.


What is that 14%?

I highly doubt the smokers would make all the difference considering...that 30% of Americans are overweight/Obese.

And that stat is from almost 10 years ago.

I think it's safe to say that there are far worse people to deal with than smokers.

~Tenth



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by 46ACE

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
As long as the following groups also pay more:

The Elderly.
The Obese.
The Perpetually Sick ( as in, disease you can't get rid of)

SEe what a slippery slope that one is?

~Tenth


Absolutely not
Smokers chose to smoke
the elderly do not chose to be elderly
Not every obese choses to be obese
And same thing can sometimes go for the 3rd

The whole point of the thread was people who CHOSE to smoke

Choice is the main topic of the thread

Sandra Fluke chooses to have sex after her $160,000year job and wants us to pay for her contraception also.


Thats okay. We pay for her gentleman friend's Viagra.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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as a health care worker...and a smoker...i would much rather deal with someone hoiking up a lung, than the morbidly obese who injure thousands of health care workers every year.

just out of interest...what do others around the world pay for a pack of 25's.

here its about $18.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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I think you have your facts wrong anyway. I believe that national healthcare is actually cheaper than the mostly privatised system in the USA. I believe I've read that the private medicine in america is very much more expensive and delivers far worse results than many, if not all national systems.

I think the system we have in Britain is # but only because greedy doctors and money grabbing bureaucrats line their own pockets first and then do the least amount of work possible.

Regarding the smokers issue then I agree with the other posters, punish smokers only if your'e going to punish every other category of self abuse including, sports injuries, alcoholics, obesity, etc etc. In the end you'll only be providing healthcare to the healthy.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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MAKE 'EM PAY!!! MORE. MORE. MORE. STICK A GUN IN THEIR EAR AND BLOW THEIR MONEY OUT THROUGH THEIR NOSES!!!

Gawd, and people wonder why nobody can afford a doctor.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Ok, firstly I am against universal healthcare first and foremost
I think it's wrong and absurdly inneficient and immoral.

Now with that said, if such a system is forced down my throat should Smokers Pay more taxes for healthcare?

The Amount of money being poured on smokers is ridiculous
And it seems wrong to me that smokers pay equal amount of taxes but as a group take up so much in healthcare costs under a univseral system

Thoughts?


Can you show any statistics that smokers are a drain on any type of insurance? I come from a family of smokers. My mother died within a day of being taken to the hospital. My brother died of cancer in a V.A. hospital. A friend died just last Friday. No long term treatments, he died within two weeks of being diagnosed with cancer. All of my uncles died rather suddenly of cancer. One Uncle did manage to live for a year or two, and his expense on insurance was oxygen.

I will most likely die of heart disease. I'm not going to get a new heart. I won't even have surgery.

So, where is the drain on health insurance? And, if smokers aren't the cause of all this money disappearing, where is it?
edit on 9/18/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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absolutely not. their contribution through taxes is already more than enough. bad idea.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
If you want to argue otherwise, please link me the several studies that stated that the majority of Americans are overweight because of hereditary issues.


Start with this one
www.thedailybeast.com...

And there are other issues like BPA affecting obesity too, things we didn''t know about





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