Judge: Police to enforce Arizona immigration law

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by joyride0187

 

didn't they do this to the jews?? asking for papers?

Let me ask you this. What do you think would happen in Mexico if you where asked for your passport and you refused to hand it over??

Originally posted by joyride0187

Judge: Police to enforce Arizona immigration law

And the "plague" has come to Arizona.

When the Greeks suffered from the plague, they went to the Oracle at Delphi to seek it's wisdom, and the Oracle promptly told them they needed to "double the cube", which was the altar, to increase their sacrifices accordingly. Then would the plague go away. Their greed, had led to the plague. Sacrifice was the cure. Now that Arizona has upheld "the law of mine is mine, let's get the foreigners out," they have attracted the same woe as the Antient Greeks, and for the same reason once again...

www.wmicentral.com...

How many of you have "white" skin and thus no need to feel any threat from this action? I know I will make sure to keep myself and my family, who by the way, are descendants from the ONLY true Americans, Native American's, far from the likes of Arizona.

Originally posted by circuitsports
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

God does not love the white man more. That wasn't very nice.

On the subject of Native Americans, I'd like to add that they fought amongst themselves for land, it wasn't just the white man.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Southern Guardian wrote that the police can go onto peoples property and demand papers in one of his posts and that is NOT TRUE - stop getting your talking points from President Obama... He lies.

For instance, President Obama said that police would stop people on their way to ice cream in 2010 after SB1070 was passed and it was proven that he didn't read the law since there is nothing in the legislation that makes that possible....

That was a lie to divide us. We shouldn't be divided when it comes to protecting America. So please, stop spreading untruths.

Police can not and will not go onto peoples properties and ask for papers... What you fail to realize (most likely becuz you are not from Arizona) is that the majority of police officers in Phoenix/Arizona are hispanic or indigenous/native.

Heck Police chief Garcia is an American of Mexican decent and he is going to enforce the law. I may be wrong on "majority" but I am sure it is greater than 40 % hispanic! And NONE of the peace officers i have ever encountered were racist and the only one who had an attitude was a white man in his 30's who didn't want to explain why he and 10 other cops were in my neighborhood.

Anyway - realize what you think about the law is not the truth and take a few minutes to read it. The reasonable suspicion part that you found so much offense has nothing to do with the primary reason for a stop... the reasonable suspicion comes into play when the person stopped doesn't seem to be an American legal resident.

Trust me when i say 80% of peace officers in Arizona know Spanish and can ascertain with a good degree of accuracy a persons status. Its easy for me and I don't even have any training.

reply to post by Night Star


you wrote - [On the subject of Native Americans, I'd like to add that they fought amongst themselves for land]


Did they fight over land??? I thought they had all settled into their regions for at least a few thousand years with relative peace amongst the tribes.... but once white man came then they had to fight for resources due to europeans use of resources in the east....

not related to thread but I would like to know more that! It would be a good part of the puzzle in my mind.

This is an interesting topic, i must look more into it as soon as i return home to my computer.

Marking this now to remind me later

Originally posted by Annee
All it means is police can now ask for papers - - - determine status - - and transport to jail.

Before - - they had to detain and wait for an immigration officer to show up and transport.

It is about more efficient use of time and resources. That's all it is.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. As long as it can be guaranteed that no cop will use racial profiling to decide who they ask for papers.

Probably no cops will do this, but I hope they understand that brown skin or an accent is not grounds for suspicion.

Originally posted by brettrix
reply to post by Night Star

 

you wrote - [On the subject of Native Americans, I'd like to add that they fought amongst themselves for land]


Did they fight over land??? I thought they had all settled into their regions for at least a few thousand years with relative peace amongst the tribes.... but once white man came then they had to fight for resources due to europeans use of resources in the east....

not related to thread but I would like to know more that! It would be a good part of the puzzle in my mind.

Some tribes fought each other over land and food for survival. Some would fight to prove their strength.

Originally posted by brettrix
Southern Guardian wrote that the police can go onto peoples property and demand papers in one of his posts and that is NOT TRUE

How's it not true? I see no source.

The law clearly states that police merely require "reasonable" suspicion when it was introduced, there are no limitations set for police as to where they can apply their suspicions to require I.D. There's nothing stopping a police officer demanding you show I.D simply for walking down the street, no limitations set on private property. The law is vague and it is so for a reason, to grant LEO's such powers, so they can start treating brown American citizens like foreigners in this country.

It is true, and this is exactly what people like you intended the law to do. Here's what the part of the law concerned says:

"For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation."

Lawful contact is not defined for a reason, it's vague. This is the only limitation set by that part of the law:

A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements

www.politifact.com...

Which to translate into much simpler terms, police officers can require you to present I.D on the basis that they suspect you're illegal in this country, and there's no requirement for them to prove they didn't stop you because of your race, rather they can't report that they did so for that reason, which makes that part of the law absolutely pointless. Private property is not a limitation, if you're in your backyard, there's nothing stopping a police office from lawfully approaching you and requiring you to answer to them at the fence. There's nothing stopping them from doing so in this law. "Reasonable suspicion" and "lawful contact" are key here, and these terms are not defined.

What you fail to realize is that the majority of police officers in Phoenix/Arizona are hispanic or indigenous/native.

That doesn't mean there won't be police officers out there to abuse this law, there will be. I read the bill on multiple occasions, maybe you should take the time to read it yourself and actually pull out the parts where limitations have been set as to where police officers can ask you for your papers. The law is vague, it's core purpose is to be a papers please law. This is what people like you want so spare me the BS.

Originally posted by mymymy
"Obama had 2 years where the House and Senate were controlled by the Democrats. Why did they not act then to change the laws instead of just ignoring them down the road?"

Not saying I disagree with all you said, but I do this statement. Bush had 6 years where the house and senate were controlled by the Republicans. Why didn't THEY do anything?


EDIT: This is for XCATHDRA: Sorry, I apparently can't use the quote button very well

edit on 20-9-2012 by mymymy because: (no reason given)

Because comprehensive immigration reform was not at the same level of priority that Obama has placed it. There is a major difference between immigraation laws between the 2 parties. Obama wants amnesty where as Bush did not.

reply to post by MuonSpin

Violence is not endemic to immigrants whether undocumented or not.. it's a cultural and socioeconomic problem. In fact, undocumented immigrants are statistically far less likely to commit crimes than their native born counterparts. Go figure!

Thousands of our citizens have lost their lives, been maimed and raped by illegals all across the USA and should not be taken lightly. These are crimes that were avoidable. Had our laws been enforced, these illegals wouldn't have been here and all those people would still be alive today.

Originally posted by Night Star
Thousands of our citizens have lost their lives, been maimed and raped by illegals all across the USA and should not be taken lightly. These are crimes that were avoidable. Had our laws been enforced, these illegals wouldn't have been here and all those people would still be alive today.

You always bring this flawed argument into these threads. No, those crimes were not avoidable.

Just like all the other laws on the books don't prevent other crimes from happening, tougher immigration laws will not stop illegal immigration.

Murder, theft, drug trafficking, etc., are not avoided by laws enacted against these activities.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Night Star
Thousands of our citizens have lost their lives, been maimed and raped by illegals all across the USA and should not be taken lightly. These are crimes that were avoidable. Had our laws been enforced, these illegals wouldn't have been here and all those people would still be alive today.

You always bring this flawed argument into these threads. No, those crimes were not avoidable.

Just like all the other laws on the books don't prevent other crimes from happening, tougher immigration laws will not stop illegal immigration. Murder, theft, drug trafficking, etc., are not avoided by laws enacted against those activities.

The difference being is we are willing to prosecute those who break the law.

People who enter this country illegally are in fact breaking US law. What makes their actions acceptable to the point where we are willing to ignore enforcement of the law that we enforce on illegal aliens from countries other than Mexico?

Why are we ignoring the law just for illegals from Mexico? Why do we arrest, prosecute and deport individuals from Asian countries, African countries, ME countries, other South American countries? We do this even when those people were brought to this country illegally and when they have no criminal backgrounds.

Maybe its because the Latino voters in the US represent a large chunk of voters and by pandering to their special interests they can buy their votes? Its the same issue with Cuba and the special intrest grip in Florida on their politics.

To bad we dont share a border with those countries in South - Central America, Africa, ME or Asia... I am usre those people would like to be helped in the same manner. Maybe if they can smuggle enough illegals into this country they will be pandered to as well just like Latinos.

Also please explain why its ok to treat people from Mexico who violate US law in a different manner than we do citizens who illegally come to the US from countries other than Mexico.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
People who enter this country illegally are in fact breaking US law.

Missed the point. I never said it wasn't illegal, just that laws don't stop illegal activities, so claiming that certain events were avoidable is not true.

To bad we dont share a border with those countries in South - Central America, Africa, ME or Asia... I am usre those people would like to be helped in the same manner. Maybe if they can smuggle enough illegals into this country they will be pandered to as well just like Latinos.

Central and South Americans and many Caribbeans are also Latinos, so they already make up the population being pandered to.

Also please explain why its ok to treat people from Mexico who violate US law in a different manner than we do citizens who illegally come to the US from countries other than Mexico.

Probably because TPTB are pushing for a NAU.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Night Star
Thousands of our citizens have lost their lives, been maimed and raped by illegals all across the USA and should not be taken lightly. These are crimes that were avoidable. Had our laws been enforced, these illegals wouldn't have been here and all those people would still be alive today.

You always bring this flawed argument into these threads. No, those crimes were not avoidable.

Just like all the other laws on the books don't prevent other crimes from happening, tougher immigration laws will not stop illegal immigration.

Murder, theft, drug trafficking, etc., are not avoided by laws enacted against these activities.

edit on 21-9-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Flawed argument?

I realize that you and I will never see eye to eye on this issue. Yes I do keep bringing up the points that I do because I believe they are extremely important and should be shared.

YES those deaths could have been prevented. Many of those crimes were commited by illegals with previous arrests and deportations. It is ridiculous and un-acceptable by the American people.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem on so many levels and I'm not going to give up or surrender. If you are ok with the invasion, that is your perogative.

I am leaving for the weekend so if someone replies to one of my comments, I will get back to you as soon as I can.

Originally posted by Night Star
[Flawed argument?

I realize that you and I will never see eye to eye on this issue. Yes I do keep bringing up the points that I do because I believe they are extremely important and should be shared.

YES those deaths could have been prevented. Many of those crimes were commited by illegals with previous arrests and deportations. It is ridiculous and un-acceptable by the American people.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem on so many levels and I'm not going to give up or surrender. If you are ok with the invasion, that is your perogative.

Your passion for the topic doesn't make your claims true.

Laws don't do away with illegal activities. They never have.

reply to post by daskakik


Laws in Arizona are working.

It is a shame that we actually need laws to enforce existing laws, but with an overwhelming number of illegals, this is what it has come to.