Judge: Police to enforce Arizona immigration law

Judge: Police to enforce Arizona immigration law

www.msnbc.msn.com

PHOENIX — A judge has ruled that police in Arizona can immediately start enforcing the most contentious section of the state's immigration law, marking the first time officers can carry out a requirement that officers, while enforcing other laws, question the immigration status of those suspected of being in the country illegally. The decision on Tuesday by U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton is the latest milestone in a two-year legal battle over the requirement. It culminated in a U.S. Supreme Court decision in June that upheld the provision on the grounds that it doesn't conflict with fede

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So it's not illegal anymore for the police to deal with people who are doing something illegal. What took so long.

Being in this country without proper papers = illegal

Using false Social Security numbers = crime

Working off the books/ getting paid under the table is tax evasion = criminal

Collecting social benefits without properly disclosing income = fraud

I'm trying to find a way that illegals are not criminals.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

As an AZ resident.... I approve of this message!

It has been an uphill battle for a long, LONG time.

S&F for you!

All it means is police can now ask for papers - - - determine status - - and transport to jail.

Before - - they had to detain and wait for an immigration officer to show up and transport.

It is about more efficient use of time and resources. That's all it is.

Good to hear! Anything other than this would be senseless and pointless.

reply to post by joyride0187


I was against this law at first, but have since completely changed my mind. I didn't like the one I had. That's a joke. But seriously - Good for Arizona!

reply to post by joyride0187


About time our States Laws are given back their teeth.....

Des

Originally posted by joyride0187


So it's not illegal anymore for the police to deal with people who are doing something illegal. What took so long.

I absolutely couldn't agree more. If people don't like the law, change it. That's what City officials and/or State legislatures are there for. If they don't squeeze the mustard for people, then run for the position and change it from the inside. That level isn't near the trouble as National and in direct effect on people's lives, carries FAR more power.

Simply saying a law that is duly passed by the voters and Constitutional doesn't count.....doesn't work though. Change it or live with so. So good job for the Judge in just doing what the system is supposed to have happen. Now next week a similar decision will come along for something I really hate, I'm sure.....Gotta live with that too.

reply to post by joyride0187

That's great news! I hope it, very soon, comes to a state near me! Or better yet, ALL OF THEM!

See ya,
Milt

Originally posted by joyride0187
So it's not illegal anymore for the police to deal with people who are doing something illegal. What took so long.

From what I understand, police always had the ability to see whether somebody was legally in this country or not during a legitimate bust, or stop. When police stop you for speeding, for example, they would obviously request a drivers licence, or your details to look you up on the system. Obviously if you were not legally in this country, it would be fairly obvious during a routine check, the Arizona law was never needed for this, police always had this ability so this law is not about things like legitimate traffic stops or drug busts etc.

The section of the Arizona law concerned allows for police officers to stop and question anybody about their legal status in this country if they have "reasonable" suspicion. The fundamental problem is that there's no definition for what they mean by "reasonable" or "suspicion" and the law opens up police to harass people, to racially discrimminate without accountability. A police officer can claim that he has "reasonable" suspicion to walk onto your property and ask you for your birth certificate, or ask you for your licence for merely walking to the grocery store to certify you were here legally, without any accountability or obligation, and without any fault of your own. It's a "papers please" law.

I wonder how long it's going to take before police can start questioning you to determine whether or not you filed your tax returns on time?

This is great,
it will slow those Snowbirds down,
we all know in AZ that raising the price of cigarettes,
to the same amount as Canada,
did not work.

Now we can put this behind us,
and move onto,
undocumented gun owners.
Operation Stop and Talk is a success.

We will change the name of Fast and Furious
and try again.
It was the Border Patrols job to enforce this but the DOJ gave them undocumented guns,
killing Border Patrol Agents,
making it a local law enforcement problem.

azstarnet.com...

Logan Willis, Terry's nephew, spontaneously held the medal, the Congressional Badge of Bravery, up high in the climax of an event attended by four members of Congress. The event was the first fundraiser for the Brian Terry Foundation, a foundation set up to help the families of injured or killed Border Patrol agents, provide scholarships and honor Terry's memory.

I wonder if the DOJ has any undocumented guns they want to declare,
or do we need another law asking for the papers of guns,
of those weapons that come back across the border?
My understanding is so far the DOJ is refusing to show any gun papers in regards to border control.

Yay Arizona. They have fought long and hard against illegal immigration. Now if we could get rid of sanctuary cities, that would be helpful. At least some companies are now getting caught for hiring illegals and paying big bucks in fines. Maybe there is some hope after all.

Originally posted by joyride0187


So it's not illegal anymore for the police to deal with people who are doing something illegal. What took so long.

Being in this country without proper papers = illegal

Using false Social Security numbers = crime

Working off the books/ getting paid under the table is tax evasion = criminal

Collecting social benefits without properly disclosing income = fraud

I'm trying to find a way that illegals are not criminals.

www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Yep, legalized racial profiling is the way to go I suppose...

How many people use false social security numbers? What percentage?

The IRS and CBO both say the vast majority of undocumented immigrants do in fact pay taxes. They also say the tax revenue generated offsets most of their social burden. The revenue has even exceeds their social burden in some cases. Immigrants are able to get an ITIN from IRS regardless of their status. The IRS makes it easy for immigrants to pay Uncle Sam w/o fear of deportation. Smart move on their part since their only purpose is to collect money.

What social benefits do undocumented immigrants qualify for? Do you even know?

Also, what social benefits can anyone receive without disclosing income? 'Income' is single most important determining factor for most if not all social benefits.. Case workers are required to verify income before qualifying anyone for benefits.

You are trying not to find ways ‘illegals’ are not criminals yet if you've ever downloaded pirated movies or songs from the interwebz, you have committed a far more serious crime than that of someone whose merely committed an immigration violation. Immigration violations are only ever misdemeanors.

If you care so much for the law why doesn’t it bother you a police officer is now mandated to detain someone on suspicion of committing a misdemeanor? The 4th amendment says police are only allowed to detain on ‘suspicion’ when the suspicion is of a felony in progress. If police are to detain on a misdemeanor they have to actually witness it happening and any evidence gathered after the detainment cannot be used to retroactively justify the arrest.

Papiere, Bitte!

Yea thats great...



Funny race was also the reason back than too, the more things change and all that.

reply to post by Destinyone


Arizona has been smacking the feds in the face for a very long time

Yep, legalized racial profiling is the way to go I suppose...

Actually it is. If you think the police in Arizona have been waiting for this law to racially profile people, you're naive. They've been doing it for years. But I suppose that if you don't hear it on the news, it doesn't happen, right? Why do I get the feeling that you don't live in Arizona?

How many people use false social security numbers? What percentage?

What percentage of what? And how does that matter? One is too many and you know it.

The IRS and CBO both say the vast majority of undocumented immigrants do in fact pay taxes. They also say the tax revenue generated offsets most of their social burden. The revenue has even exceeds their social burden in some cases. Immigrants are able to get an ITIN from IRS regardless of their status. The IRS makes it easy for immigrants to pay Uncle Sam w/o fear of deportation. Smart move on their part since their only purpose is to collect money.

You got that one right. All the feds care about is the money, they don't care or see the social ramifications of illegal Mexicans in this state and neither do you. Unemployment and crime are the two main ones. And before you start asking for proof, don't bother. I can provide all the links you can handle but you're still not going to get it because you don't live here. People like me have nothing to prove to people like you because our towns are the one's affected by all this. Not yours. And I don't care if they're Mexicans or Chinese, if you're going to come here and cause the problems you do simply by being here......leave.

What social benefits do undocumented immigrants qualify for? Do you even know?

As many as you do after they steal the S.S. numbers of dead people. And if you don't think that happens, again, you're naive. And checking the validity of the numbers? you said it yourself earlier. The Feds have better things to do when they're seeing dollar bills flying into their offices. And nitpicking the numbers of "how many" and "what percentage" is just you trying to deflect the focus off the real issue.

Also, what social benefits can anyone receive without disclosing income? 'Income' is single most important determining factor for most if not all social benefits.. Case workers are required to verify income before qualifying anyone for benefits.

He never said they don't disclose it. He said they falsify it. There's a difference and they do it on a daily basis. People who use someone else's S.S. number are going to do whatever else it takes to get money and benefits. You really don't know how this all works do you?

You are trying not to find ways ‘illegals’ are not criminals yet if you've ever downloaded pirated movies or songs from the interwebz, you have committed a far more serious crime than that of someone whose merely committed an immigration violation. Immigration violations are only ever misdemeanors.

Downloading movies doesn't take jobs away from your neighbors. It doesn't put bullet holes in your walls because some "people" ( I'm trying to be politically correct here) are having a drug centered turf war in your neighborhood. Yeah, that same neighborhood that was safe 5 years ago before before the Bandito's set up camp. That same neighborhood that you and the Feds can't see because you don't live here. It doesn't make the news either because it's been going on for so long and has become so prolific, it's not news anymore.

If you care so much for the law why doesn’t it bother you a police officer is now mandated to detain someone on suspicion of committing a misdemeanor? The 4th amendment says police are only allowed to detain on ‘suspicion’ when the suspicion is of a felony in progress. If police are to detain on a misdemeanor they have to actually witness it happening and any evidence gathered after the detainment cannot be used to retroactively justify the arrest.

Well, good on you for knowing how to use big words in a sentence. But check this: All these legalities come from the Feds. In case you haven't noticed, the powers that be down here don't care much for them anymore. Brewer may as well have given Obama the finger on the tarmac all those months ago when he paid her a visit. What she did back then was echo everyone else's sentiments about what this issue was.....and still is: Go back to Washington and mind your own damn business in this regard. We don't need you, we don't want you and you get in the way.

We don't want to fight Washington and most of us don't necessarily want to secede. What we want is for Washington to get their thumb out their a** and realize that not every state in the union is created equal in regards to laws. One blanket law about immigration is not going to appease both Arizona and, say, Maine. We have different demographics, therefor, different issues.

Hopefully the Genie is out of the bottle and other states will follow suit.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple

Actually it is. If you think the police in Arizona have been waiting for this law to racially profile people, you're naive. They've been doing it for years. But I suppose that if you don't hear it on the news, it doesn't happen, right? Why do I get the feeling that you don't live in Arizona?

No, I don't think the police have been waiting for a law to be passed before racially profiling immigrants and minorities in general. I agree with you on this. This sort of highlights the hypocritical and arrogant mentality behind this movement.

You don't get the feeling I don't live in Arizona. You're already convinced of it. If you weren't so busy looking down the end of your nose, you might have taken the time to consider I live in a state with a far bigger immigration population than Arizona.

What percentage of what? And how does that matter? One is too many and you know it.

What % of illegal immigrant use fake or stolen SSN's to steal social benefits and skirt taxes? Just one is not too-many-enough to justify such draconian laws.

My question is relevant because the statistics do not support the claims made by those behind this bill. There are so many check-systems in place the fake/stolen SSN issue is not as big as you people claim it is.

You got that one right. All the feds care about is the money, they don't care or see the social ramifications of illegal Mexicans in this state and neither do you. Unemployment and crime are the two main ones. And before you start asking for proof, don't bother. I can provide all the links you can handle but you're still not going to get it because you don't live here. People like me have nothing to prove to people like you because our towns are the one's affected by all this. Not yours. And I don't care if they're Mexicans or Chinese, if you're going to come here and cause the problems you do simply by being here......leave.

The IRS is not required to enforce immigration laws. They go by the official name Internal Revenue Service. Their job is to collect money. And that they do well. My point was simply that undocumented immigrants do in fact pay taxes. Even if they use a fake SSN, they pay payroll taxes they'll never collect a refund on. There are some that do, but the vast majority who goes this route don't b/c they don't want to get caught. The IRS has become really good @ catching & rejecting fakes. And now we have the ITIN which most undocumented immigrants prefer to use.

As many as you do after they steal the S.S. numbers of dead people. And if you don't think that happens, again, you're naive. And checking the validity of the numbers? you said it yourself earlier. The Feds have better things to do when they're seeing dollar bills flying into their offices. And nitpicking the numbers of "how many" and "what percentage" is just you trying to deflect the focus off the real issue.

Document fraud is far more difficult to do now than it was even 5 years ago. The problem is far less common than your camp makes it out to be. It would take a whole lot of negligence on part of a case worker and luck part of the immigrant to receive social benefits w/fake SSN. DHS always checks SSN against SSA database and checks bio-metric information w/other agency databases.

He never said they don't disclose it. He said they falsify it. There's a difference and they do it on a daily basis. People who use someone else's S.S. number are going to do whatever else it takes to get money and benefits. You really don't know how this all works do you?

They can falsify it, but it will do them no good. Any DHS case worker is required to verify income information before qualifying anyone for benefits.

Yes I do know how this works. I know exactly how this works. I deal with this every day.

Downloading movies doesn't take jobs away from your neighbors. It doesn't put bullet holes in your walls because some "people" ( I'm trying to be politically correct here) are having a drug centered turf war in your neighborhood. Yeah, that same neighborhood that was safe 5 years ago before before the Bandito's set up camp. That same neighborhood that you and the Feds can't see because you don't live here. It doesn't make the news either because it's been going on for so long and has become so prolific, it's not news anymore.

Violence is not endemic to immigrants whether undocumented or not.. it's a cultural and socioeconomic problem. In fact, undocumented immigrants are statistically far less likely to commit crimes than their native born counterparts. Go figure!

Well, good on you for knowing how to use big words in a sentence

thank you! I tried to dumb it down a bit in this response so you wouldn't feel so intimidated with my big words.

We don't want to fight Washington and most of us don't necessarily want to secede. What we want is for Washington to get their thumb out their a** and realize that not every state in the union is created equal in regards to laws. One blanket law about immigration is not going to appease both Arizona and, say, Maine. We have different demographics, therefor, different issues.

States can make their own laws so long as those laws don't contradict Federal Law. You know the Federal Laws do supersede the State Laws. And I don't think Arizona could or would secede even if they wanted to. They could vote on it, but the Feds wont let it happen.