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The Black Knight Satellite - more questions than answers

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posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by heathwithnoteeth
reply to post by bluestreak53
 


well someone should buy this

www.ebay.com...:B:SHOP:US:101
not sure if there were more issues produced in august of that year, but as the name states "Aviation Week" then there may be four issues in August.


Good idea, but unfortunately, the wrong issue. The correct issue was August 23rd, 1953 (according to this web source): www.presidentialufo.com...

The information was posted in one short paragraph:



Pentagon scare over the observance of two previously unobserved satellites orbiting the earth has dissipated with the identification of the objects as natural, not artificial satellites. Dr. Lincoln LaPaz, expert on extraterrestrial bodies from the University of New Mexico, headed the identification project. One satellite is orbiting about 400 miles out, while the other track is 600 miles from the earth. Pentagon thought momentarily the Russians had beaten the U.S. to space explorations.


Obviously the Russians DID beat the US to space explorations by launching Sputnik, three years later.

I seemed to get the impression that Jim Oberg was pooh, poohing the discovery on the basis that asteroids don't just randomly come into earth's orbit. Exactly! But it appears that this was the explanation provided by LaPaz and Tombaugh. Additional news articles indicating that Clyde Tombaugh was engaged in a search for "orbiting satellites" were published in newspapers in early March 1954.

It should be noted that some people thought that the "moonlets" were actually orbiting spaceships, and they actually tried to make contact with the spaceships by radio (read more about this episode in the linked page).

I do agree with Jim that there is nothing to link this "discovery" with the "Black Knight" satellite account that came several years later.




posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by Chickensalad
reply to post by JimOberg
 


I just wish others would allow people to freely read and research the topics they choose without being ridiculed for what they question.

I wish that those self appointed "answer men" would realize that they may be wrong, they may not know everything that they think they do, and first and foremost, understand that, just because I haven't typed up a synapses of everything I know, you can't assume to have an insight into what knowledge I may carry around in my head.

My two-cents



The people who tell you how smart you are to agree with them, are not always your friends.

The people who occasionally slap you about the head and neck with a dead plucked chicken, especially when you deserve it, are not always your foes.

edit on 18-9-2012 by JimOberg because: typo



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by bluestreak53

Originally posted by heathwithnoteeth
reply to post by bluestreak53
 


well someone should buy this

www.ebay.com...:B:SHOP:US:101
not sure if there were more issues produced in august of that year, but as the name states "Aviation Week" then there may be four issues in August.


Good idea, but unfortunately, the wrong issue. The correct issue was August 23rd, 1953 (according to this web source): www.presidentialufo.com...

The information was posted in one short paragraph:



Pentagon scare over the observance of two previously unobserved satellites orbiting the earth has dissipated with the identification of the objects as natural, not artificial satellites. Dr. Lincoln LaPaz, expert on extraterrestrial bodies from the University of New Mexico, headed the identification project. One satellite is orbiting about 400 miles out, while the other track is 600 miles from the earth. Pentagon thought momentarily the Russians had beaten the U.S. to space explorations.


I seemed to get the impression that Jim Oberg was pooh, poohing the discovery on the basis that asteroids don't just randomly come into earth's orbit. Exactly! But it appears that this was the explanation provided by LaPaz and Tombaugh. Additional news articles indicating that Clyde Tombaugh was engaged in a search for "orbiting satellites" were published in newspapers in early March 1954.




Attaboys for doing original research, and for sharing. This happens often enough on ATS to make it productive.

Again, thanks, and well done. You're part of the solution, not part of the problem -- and you've earned the right to any speculative guesses about the implications of what is found out, because your feet are on facts, not fantasies. Be well, and multiply. May your tribe increase.

What we need to recognize, sixty years later, was that even many of the TOP experts in that pre-Space dawn believed a lot of nonsense and imagined a lot of misperceptions about how spaceflight was going to transpire. And others were wisely aware of how little they knew and how easily they might be surprised -- hence a prudent approach to even the possibility of a report of small near-earth satellites needed verification. It was far from a matter of the Pentagon knowing the satellites might be real -- it was an admission that they knew they MIGHT be. And whatever they found, it's not at all clear to me that they'd want to provide their true answer to the world, and to Moscow, in particular.

The IDEA of artificial satellites got serious about 1948, even though there had been fantasy novels about them since the 1890s. RAND did their reconnaissance satellite study. 1948 was also when the British Interplanetary Society designed the first lunar module, the first human spacesuit, and the use of lunar orbit rendezvous for the first human landing -- from first principles of engineering and physics. These guys had it spot on, but others, not so much.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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I say good for you OP.
Very interesting case.
I thought knowledge of BK Satellite
was first thought to be in the 1920's?
And first physical sighting, 1953?
It's certainly a case where the fog around
credibility is thin compared to many alien stories IMO.

Yes, I know by merely saying this, I, by default, admit to being
an air head with no ability to discern reality on my own.
And need the help of people who don't believe anything is paranormal.

Phage pointed this out to me recently when I took a look at
a hoax scientist warning video. It was long after the fervor had settled,
and after a quick watch I thought, that guy seemed more genuine than the 80 others I'd seen.
Well,
Phage correctly and as politely as he can be, put up a video of the "scientist"
saying "You got me!" it's a hoax!' ......like in 20 seconds. (Phage is very fast)

I rarely fall for scientist warning stories. But I do navigate life
from a intuitive spiritual vantage point. I'm certainly into science
and am plenty geeked in that world, but as a matter of fact, I know..
Not everything can be debunked.

The Black Knight story is intriguing and I dont know what the truth is,
but it's certainly nowhere near case closed, like the "scientist" warning was.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by IamAbeliever
reply to post by Rubicant13
 





counting outwards from the sun


This is the only part that I find a bit suspicious. The word sun is a human word that we have given our own star. The fact that they refer to their star as sun makes me think this is a human generated signal.

This is still extremely interesting nonetheless. Good post OP.
edit on 17-9-2012 by IamAbeliever because: (no reason given)

Aren't all the words "human" words? Planet? Etc?



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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Here is a little blurb about it (I think) from a science journal
Havard edu archives.
articles.adsabs.harvard.edu...



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Here is the article from Time:

www.time.com...

I am not a subscriber, so I cannot access more than that. But there is another write up that apparently describes the article:

www.thelivingmoon.com...

I find this thread quite fascinating. I heard about this a few years ago, but did not manage to get around to researching. They apparently as well, have pics of this thing.

Great thread. Hope to see more info, especially if its recent



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Rubicant13
 


I've been trying to find information other than what was written in the Book that Childers wrote about it. I can't find anything.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Rubicant13
I love the mysterious, and nothing is more mysterious in my eyes than the Black Knight satellite. This satellite was first spotted in 1953, 4 years before the Russians launched sputnik 1 in 1957. This satellite had sent a radio signal:


“Our home is Epsilon Boötis, which is a double star. We live on the sixth planet of seven—check that, the sixth of seven—counting outwards from the sun, which is the larger of the two stars. Our sixth planet has one moon. Our fourth planet has three. Our first and third planet each have one. Our probe is in the orbit of your moon.”–signal translation originating from ‘The Black Knight’ Satellite, Time Magazine April 9, 1973


[snip]
So...the questions remain - Who owns this satellite? What is it's purpose?
I have a hard time believing that this satellite was put there by an alien race to observe us. I want to believe that this is earth technology. What are your thoughts?


Can we converge on agreement that this opening claim in the OP's original posting is bogus?

There never was any such tranmission from any satellite or from anywhere else.

The claim was dreamed up by somebody whose intent was deception for profit, probably.

Yet he so easily fooled a lot of eager young 'open minds'. How did they assist in their own victimization and what can they do better in the future?



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Rubicant13
I love the mysterious, and nothing is more mysterious in my eyes than the Black Knight satellite. This satellite was first spotted in 1953, 4 years before the Russians launched sputnik 1 in 1957. This satellite had sent a radio signal:


“Our home is Epsilon Boötis, which is a double star. We live on the sixth planet of seven—check that, the sixth of seven—counting outwards from the sun, which is the larger of the two stars. Our sixth planet has one moon. Our fourth planet has three. Our first and third planet each have one. Our probe is in the orbit of your moon.”–signal translation originating from ‘The Black Knight’ Satellite, Time Magazine April 9, 1973


[snip]
So...the questions remain - Who owns this satellite? What is it's purpose?
I have a hard time believing that this satellite was put there by an alien race to observe us. I want to believe that this is earth technology. What are your thoughts?


Can we converge on agreement that this opening claim in the OP's original posting is bogus?

There never was any such tranmission from any satellite or from anywhere else.

The claim was dreamed up by somebody whose intent was deception for profit, probably.

Yet he so easily fooled a lot of eager young 'open minds'. How did they assist in their own victimization and what can they do better in the future?




Whoa whoa whoa... I wasn't trying to fool anyone. I believe in the possibility of such a thing. I, in no manner try to "fool" anyone with this thread, and I do not appreciate the inference that I have. You say it didn't happen, that's your choice. If I want to find the story interesting and post about it, that is my choice.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Rubicant13
Whoa whoa whoa... I wasn't trying to fool anyone. I believe in the possibility of such a thing. I, in no manner try to "fool" anyone with this thread, and I do not appreciate the inference that I have. You say it didn't happen, that's your choice. If I want to find the story interesting and post about it, that is my choice.


I impute no deceptive intentions to YOU, heck, you're the Number-1 victim here.

I impute poor judgment and naivite to you, that you should consider such a proposition plausible, based on unchecked evidence.

If you have been misled, don't you want to find OUT?

The 'message' is essentially the phrasing of Scottish astronomer and author Duncan Lunan, based on an entirely different mystery -- the Long-Delayed Echoes.

LUNAN wrote how he interpreted the pattern he saw in the echoes, as a message -- exactly as given in your post.

Years later, he realized he was incorrect in arguing for that interpretation, and withdrew it.

Do you want to email him and ask him directly?

Lunan's words were later 'put into the mouth' of the mythical ghost satellite by a deliberate deceiver, of whom you're just another victim.

Don't you want to track him down?



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:40 PM
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You have sent me the e-mail address so I will e-mail him. So what proof exactly is there that is solid that no satellite
was seen in orbit in 1953? Or that it was mistaken as one or what not?



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


That was rather nice to hear you admit that for a change.
You do realize what you said don't you?

Regardless, it was a step in the right direction.

Thanks



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 01:48 AM
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I want to throw another idea out there which is highly speculative but which may pose another possibility which has not be considered yet..
IF the Germans moved their operations to the Antarctic after the WWII, any space items which cannot be accounted for by the major space players at the time (USA & Russia), may have come from these German operations in the Antarctic.

I dont think this stuff has been posted yet.
wikipedia section on Clyde Tombaugh

In 1956 Tombaugh had the following to say about his various sightings: "I have seen three objects in the last seven years which defied any explanation of known phenomenon, such as Venus, atmospheric optic, meteors or planes. I am a professional, highly skilled, professional astronomer. In addition I have seen three green fireballs which were unusual in behavior from normal green fireballs... I think that several reputable scientists are being unscientific in refusing to entertain the possibility of extraterrestrial origin and nature."[17][dead link]

Shortly after this in January 1957, in an Associated Press article in the Alamogordo Daily News titled "Celestial Visitors May Be Invading Earth's Atmosphere," Tombaugh was again quoted on his sightings and opinion about them. "Although our own solar system is believed to support no other life than on Earth, other stars in the galaxy may have hundreds of thousands of habitable worlds. Races on these worlds may have been able to utilize the tremendous amounts of power required to bridge the space between the stars..." Tombaugh stated that he had observed celestial phenomena which he could not explain, but has seen none personally since 1951 or 1952. "These things, which do appear to be directed, are unlike any other phenomena I ever observed. Their apparent lack of obedience to the ordinary laws of celestial motion gives credence."[18]



Tombaugh's offer may have led to his involvement in a search for near-Earth satellites, first announced in late 1953 and sponsored by the Army Office of Ordnance Research. Another public statement was made on the search in March 1954 (photo at right), emphasizing the rationale that such an orbiting object would serve as a natural space station.[21] However, according to Donald Keyhoe, later director of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP), the real reason for the sudden search was because two near-Earth orbiting objects had been picked up on new long-range radar in the summer of 1953, according to his Pentagon source.

By May 1954, Keyhoe was making public statements that his sources told him the search had indeed been successful, and either one or two objects had been found.[22] However, the story did not break until August 23, 1954, when Aviation Week magazine stated that two satellites had been found only 400 and 600 miles out. They were termed "natural satellites" and implied that they had been recently captured, despite this being a virtual impossibility. The next day, the story was in many major newspapers. Dr. LaPaz was implicated in the discovery in addition to Tombaugh. LaPaz had earlier conducted secret investigations on behalf of the Air Force on the green fireballs and other unidentified aerial phenomena over New Mexico. LaPaz vehemently denied his involvement in the search, although the New York Times reported on August 29 that a source close to the project said that the story was true and LaPaz was indeed involved, in fact had been the one to spot and identify the objects as natural rather than artificial satellites. The same source denied the search had anything to do with flying saucers.[23]


==================================
Sounds like the USA were still having problems getting stuff up there. 11 failured launches by 1960 so I dont know how they got all of the necessary experience to launch a Lunar Mission in the 1960's... anyway thats for another discussion.

from the NRO declassified

However, both the CIA and Air Force programs were in trouble. Launch after launch in the CORONA program, eleven in all by May 1, 1960, eight of which carried cameras, had resulted in failure--the only variation was in the cause. Meanwhile, the SAMOS program was also experiencing difficulties, both with regard to hardware and program definition.

Concerns over SAMOS led President Eisenhower to direct two groups to study both the technical aspects of the program as well as how the resulting system would be employed. The ultimate result was a joint report presented to the President and NSC on August 25, 1960.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:04 AM
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You may actually be on to something - you may be correct in what you have found. Good find.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 03:20 AM
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Love this thread, great job OP! Will be back later to take a look at it in detail. Thanks again.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 05:54 AM
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I hope I have got this right.... if anyone wants it, the copy of Aviation Week mentioned previously was this one I believe -
Aviation Week for 24th August 1953 on sale at ebay 12 dollars



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 06:03 AM
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Originally posted by Rubicant13
reply to post by Phage
 


I agree. But if it did happen, the importance of that sighting is staggering. I love the story of it, and the fact that there is a certain amount of name dropping used in reference to that sighting makes me wonder.


Everything else was a lie, why would the entire thing be a lie EXCEPT the 1953 satellite part is true. Let's say I tell you 5 things, and they are all about one connected event. You do some research and find out that 4 of the 5 things I said are flat out lies. The 5th you can't find any information on at all. How likely is it that the 5th is true when everything else was completely false?



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Have you ever heard a story going around a large group of people? By the time the story gets back to the person that told it, most facts are misconstrued usually leaving a few things within the story that are true. I wasn't there in 1953, so this could be the case with this too. How do we know? It could be fake, it may not be. How can any of us know? I just think it is an interesting story and was speculating.






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