Did Jesus evolve into the Christ? Past lives of Jesus.... And let's talk about the Freemasonry too!

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posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


You do not have God as you do not know Jesus Christ. To know Jesus Christ you must repent and accept him as your personal savior. Those who do not know the Son do not know the Father.

Christianity isn't a Religion, its a relationship.

What you have is your New Age dogma which is rooted in deception.

No truth is in you.

edit on 20-9-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Hebrews 9 Doesn't disprove reincarnation...

the subject wasn't reincarnation in that chapter, it involved whether or not Jesus had to die more than once for the sins of mankind.

edit on 20-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Jesus did not teach Reincarnation, and he did Not go to India.

Being "Born-Again" does not mean being reincarnated.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 




It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment. (Hebrews 9:27)


Correct, this speaks of man. It says nothing about the ones from above.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Hebrews 9 Doesn't disprove reincarnation...

the subject wasn't reincarnation in that chapter, it involved whether or not Jesus had to die more than once for the sins of mankind.

edit on 20-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Jesus did not teach Reincarnation, and he did Not go to India.

Being "Born-Again" does not mean being reincarnated.


I don't believe that Christ went to India either. However, St. Thomas the Apostle (Doubting Thomas) did. That's totally not germane to the discussion- cause I can be random like that.
edit on 20-9-2012 by LeSigh because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Hebrews 9 Doesn't disprove reincarnation...

the subject wasn't reincarnation in that chapter, it involved whether or not Jesus had to die more than once for the sins of mankind.

edit on 20-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Jesus did not teach Reincarnation, and he did Not go to India.

Being "Born-Again" does not mean being reincarnated.


I didn't say any of that!


I said that chapter in Hebrews doesn't say anything about reincarnation...

Read it again... or for the first time, whatever...

salt with context and serve... ye know?

edit on 20-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by cenpuppie
 




Millions of souls damned and they never had a chance. What is to happen to them on their judgement when they never had the chance to hear of this religion?


These souls do not go to hell. Christians will seem to spew this nonsense, but it surely does not happen. If you didn't make that choice to be a believer, then you will be judged based off your life. It doesn't take being all holy to make it into heaven.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
The clearest version is a book. Gotta break it down in a forum.

You've probably written a books worth on the forum and you still have to explain what you mean to others, who are basing their arguments against you on the very same book.

I have to agree with RevelationGeneration, "New Age" doesn't fit well into the Bible, even if it is closer to the truth.
edit on 20-9-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


Well, of course. That's one of the great secrets. What you give you get in return, "she" doesn't play. Negative out, negative in. Positive out... positive in. Anyone paying attention to the experiments the Japanese are doing with water?

Call it Karma, God, universal consciousness, the flying spaghetti monster, whatever.

Edgar just went to hard in the paint (worked to hard) and it caught up him, it seems that making that connection is draining. Now, i really want to get my hands on some of his materials.

Buddists and Hindus believe in reincarnation as well, can't over look the phenomenon because it might offend. And that's the paradigm that's being hit on. "My way or the highway". The bible could be written so that those that more concerned about "getting" into heaven will not make it (IE those that do it simply because they don't want to go to hell) while those that are devoted to a spiritual growth do make it.

Think about it.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 




Jesus did not teach Reincarnation, and he did Not go to India.


Brother did go to many places not listed in the bible. If the bible detailed everything he did, no one would read it, as it would be too large. Many do have to come back unto life to "learn". But, it will be at the new cycle, not during a current cycle.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:00 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 




Jesus did not teach Reincarnation, and he did Not go to India.


Brother did go to many places not listed in the bible. If the bible detailed everything he did, no one would read it, as it would be too large. Many do have to come back unto life to "learn". But, it will be at the new cycle, not during a current cycle.


Kinda like this?

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.




posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


Pfft.. It's ok, you can ignore me. I, unlike unpaid bills, will go away.

But first, let me see if I can sum you up since you won't offer your own answers.

You Probably had a troubled life never really feeling excepted anywhere wholly. You ran with friends who were not your true friends. Then you somehow found the church and you finally felt accepted. You embraced The Word and though you have battle wounds you know that God accepts you now. I am gonna guess that this happened somewhere between 5 and 10 years ago.

It seems to me that people that are "born again" fight the hardest.

I once was in an argument with a gentleman who regularly street raced and sped like crazy, but would quickly point out how others were not living their life for God. You know what he told me when I told him it was a sin to speed?

He says "The Bible says let no man judge me (meaning the cops) as I only have the Ten Commandments to live by. That is God's law and so it is my own."

I say speeding is a sin. To knowingly do wrong is sinning in my eyes.

My point you are now wondering to yourself is this, those that profess to be the strongest in faith, are so stuck on the Bible that was written so long ago, that they cannot accept the here and now. I believe the Bible to be true but we must be branches in the wind and bend a little bit.

(As an aside, I have been "with God" my whole life. 31 years of studies and questions. Where do I get answers? Do I go to a priest? Do I go to a Rabbi? Do I go to a preacher? They all claim to be teaching from the same book, but I Guarantee their answers would be very very different.)
edit on 20-9-2012 by Doodle19815 because: Grammatical error, sorry, on this stinking IPad trying to type 62 words per minute sucks!



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 




Kinda like this?


Brother didn't come until the appointed time, but I didn't want to go there in this thread. I can assure you, it wasn't his first time though. He has made a joke above, and he says, "It only hurts the first time."



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


LMAO!!

God i hope not..




posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


The writings of Pre Nicene indicate the early church fathers taught reincarnation.

There are many sayings whereas Jesus refers to himself as someone else.

Obviously in your church, they do not teach this, however the teachings of Jesus continue to this day.

You have to remember early Christianity did not have the dogma and politics like today.

Origen tried to keep the teachings of Jesus intact, but lost this battle.

Scholars are either for it, or against it.

Rebirth is also symbolic for baptismal.

There is a literal that manifests from the word, a metaphysical, and a spiritual.

All three of these concepts are taken into account when reading and understanding the Word.

When Jesus speaks about Elijah coming in the form of John the Baptist... this too is Jesus referring to reincarnation.

You can be controlled much better by the elite if you think you have one life to get it right.

Whats liberating is knowing you have more. God is love and our father loves us like children...not a mean old father that is impatient and wants to send us to eternal hell.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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This religion is what helped influence Christianity and other Abrahamic religions...


Most scholars believe[26] that key concepts of Zoroastrian eschatology and demonology influenced the Abrahamic religions.[27][28] On the other hand, Zoroastrianism itself inherited ideas from other belief systems and, like other "practiced" religions, accommodates some degree of syncretism.[29] Many traits of Zoroastrianism can be traced back to the culture and beliefs of the prehistorical Indo-Iranian period, that is, to the time before the migrations that led to the Indians and Iranians becoming distinct peoples. Zoroastrianism consequently shares elements with the historical Vedic religion that also has its origins in that era. An example is the relation of the Zoroastrian word Ahura (Ahura Mazda) and the Vedic word Asura (meaning demon). They are therefore thought[by whom?] to have descended from a common Proto-Indo-Iranian religion. However, Zoroastrianism was also strongly affected by the later culture of the Iranian Heroic Age (1500 BCE onwards), an influence to which the Indic religions were not subject. Moreover, the other culture groups that the respective peoples came to interact with were different, for instance in 6th–4th century BCE Western Iran with Fertile Crescent culture, with each side absorbing ideas from the other. Such inter-cultural influences notwithstanding, Zoroastrian "scripture" is essentially a product of (Indo-) Iranian culture, and representing the oldest and largest corpus pre-Islamic Iranian ideology—is considered[by whom?] a reflection of that culture. Then, together with the Vedas, which represent the oldest texts of the Indian branch of Indo-Iranian culture, it is possible to reconstruct some facets of prototypical Indo-Iranian beliefs. Since these two groups of sources also represent the oldest non-fragmentary evidence of Indo-European languages, the analysis of them also motivated attempts to characterize an even earlier Proto-Indo-European religion, and in turn influenced various unifying hypotheses like those of Carl Gustav Jung or James George Frazer[citation needed]. Although these unifying notions deeply influenced the modernists of the late 19th and early 20th century, they have not fared well under the scrutiny of more recent interdisciplinary peer review. The study of pre-Islamic Iran has itself undergone a radical change in direction since the 1950s, and the field is today disinclined to speculation.


All this talk of being fooled by the devil and not going with Jesus teachings is a claim no one should make without doing a bit of homework as our church fathers today know good and well what they do not teach that was once a teaching from Jesus. It is so sad this division was created, however I believe it is so man will seek on his own and be lead from within his own heart than lead by the word of man and not God.


Gherardo Gnoli, in The Encyclopaedia of Religion, says that "we can assert that Manichaeism has its roots in the Iranian religious tradition and that its relationship to Mazdaism, or Zoroastrianism, is more or less like that of Christianity to Judaism"


This religion was around before Christianity ad adopted as well. Read more...


According to the Zoroastrian story of creation, Ahura Mazda existed in light in goodness above, while Angra Mainyu existed in darkness and ignorance below. They have existed independently of each other for all time, and manifest contrary substances. Ahura Mazda first created seven abstract heavenly beings called Amesha Spentas, who support him and represent beneficent aspects, along with numerous yazads, lesser beings worthy of worship. He then created the universe itself in order to ensnare evil. Ahura Mazda created the floating, egg-shaped universe in two parts: first the spiritual (menog) and 3,000 years later, the physical (getig). Ahura Mazda then created Gayomard, the archetypical perfect man, and the first bull.[42] While Ahura Mazda created the universe and mankind, Angra Mainyu, whose instinct is to destroy, miscreated demons, evil yazads, and noxious creatures (khrafstar) such as snakes, ants, and flies. Angra Mainyu created an opposite, evil being for each good being, except for humans, which he found he could not match. Angra Mainyu invaded the universe through the base of the sky, inflicting Gayomard and the bull with suffering and death. However, the evil forces were trapped in the universe and could not retreat. The dying primordial man and bull emitted seeds. From the bull's seed grew all beneficial plants and animals of the world, and from the man's seed grew a plant whose leaves became the first human couple. Man thus struggles in a two-fold universe trapped with evil. The evils of this physical world are not products of an inherent weakness, but are the fault of Angra Mainyu's assault on creation. This assault turned the perfectly flat, peaceful, and ever day-lit world into a mountainous




posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...

This teaching is similar to that of the Christian teaching of today... and here its origins are displayed.

One God, one life, one judgement, a heaven and hell.

We have to keep in mind that Jesus never taught a religion. He was considered a rebel. He spoke of things and did works that caused his fellow man to think he was of the devil.


Zoroastrianism also includes beliefs about the renovation of the world and individual judgment (cf. general and particular judgment), including the resurrection of the dead. Individual judgment at death is by the Bridge of Judgment, which each human must cross, facing a spiritual judgment. Humans' actions under their free will determine the outcome. One is either greeted at the bridge by a beautiful, sweet-smelling maiden or by an ugly, foul-smelling old woman. The maiden leads the dead safely across the bridge to the Amesha Spenta Good Mind, who carries the dead to paradise. The old woman leads the dead down a bridge that narrows until the departed falls off into the abyss of hell.[42] Zoroastrian hell is reformative; punishments fit the crimes, and souls do not rest in eternal damnation. Hell contains foul smells and evil food, and souls are packed tightly together although they believe they are in total isolation.[42] In Zoroastrian eschatology, a 3,000-year struggle between good and evil will be fought, punctuated by evil's final assault. During the final assault, the sun and moon will darken and mankind will lose its reverence for religion, family, and elders. The world will fall into winter, and Angra Mainyu's most fearsome miscreant, Azi Dahaka, will break free and terrorize the world.[42] The final savior of the world, Saoshyant, will be born to a virgin impregnated by the seed of Zoroaster while bathing in a lake. Saoshyant will raise the dead – including those in both heaven and hell – for final judgment, returning the wicked to hell to be purged of bodily sin. Next, all will wade through a river of molten metal in which the righteous will not burn. Heavenly forces will ultimately triumph over evil, rendering it forever impotent. Saoshyant and Ahura Mazda will offer a bull as a final sacrifice for all time, and all men will become immortal. Mountains will again flatten and valleys will rise; heaven will descend to the moon, and the earth will rise to meet them both.[42] Man requires two judgments because there are as many aspects to his being: spiritual (menog) and physical (getig).[42]



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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Many ancient religions however believed in reincarnation just as Jesus taught. Below is from Josephus, another incarnate of the soul of Jesus.

www.reincarnationexperiment.org...


Flavius Josephus (37-93 CE), noted Jewish Pharisee commander and historian, wrote in his history Jewish Antiquities of reincarnation as follows: The bodies of all men are, indeed, mortal, and are created out of corruptible matter; but the soul is ever immortal, and is a portion of the divinity that inhabits our bodies. . . . Do not you know, that those who depart out of this life according to the laws of nature . . . enjoy eternal fame; that their houses and posterity are sure; that their souls are pure and obedient, and obtain a most holy place in heaven, from whence, in the revolution of ages, they are again sent . . . into bodies; while the souls of those whose hands have acted madly against themselves are received by the darkest place in Hades?


And the debate continues today...


Even after several “official” revisions, involving Aramaic, Greek and Latin texts, the orthodox Gospels still have numerous references that encompass reincarnation. Matthew 11:14-15 and 17:12-13 indicate John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah. “I tell you that Elijah has already come and people did not recognize him... Then the disciples understood that [Jesus] was talking to them about John the Baptist.” Such texts show Jesus’ unquestioning acceptance of tradition. Other references include: John 9:1 reads “The disciples asked Jesus 'Teacher, whose sin caused him to be born blind? Was it his own or his parents?' This implies not only reincarnation, but also includes the notion of karma. John 3:6 reads “A person is born physically of human parents, but he is born spiritually of the Spirit.” This remains consistent with the Eastern concept of soul incarnation. Galatians 6:5-8 reads “Each man should examine him own conduct....measure his achievement by comparing himself with himself...” During the period when early followers of Jesus’ teachings were developing their various retrospective views of them, a lively debate about reincarnation took place. The Greek Plutarch (46-125 CE) who was associated with the Gnostic inclination, clearly stated in his Moral Essays "...the soul is indestructible...(and) it will alight back in the body again birth after birth..." He allegedly urged his wife (upon the death of their daughter Timoxena) to remember the Dionysian view that the soul is indestructible and is reborn eternally Origen (185-254 CE), an early Christian philosopher, was a well known example of attempts to reconcile long-standing Indo-European views on reincarnation with the "one-lifetime/one-salvation" view of the Roman-oriented followers. Rooted in the Hellenic natural tradition and influenced by Neo-Platonism and Gnosticism, he struggled to incorporate reincarnation into the newly evolving dogma that required belief in Jesus' death and resurrection as the sole path for humankind's resurrection. Unfortunately for him, Origen's concept of free will (by which a being learns from its mistakes) did not fit into the Roman theology where only an eternal Hell awaited those who did not accept the Christ-salvation route to reunion with God in this life. Origen desperately wanted to be part of that Western branch of the faithful, so much so that he castrated himself to meet Gospel writer Paul's admonition to avoid burning in hellfire. Little good it did him in the long run because Byzantium Emperor Justinian (527-563 CE), at the Council of Constantinople in 543 CE, had Origen's principle of reincarnation declared heretical and ordered his texts burned. Gnostics and Reincarnation. One, among the many groups of early Jewish followers of teachings associated with Jesus, was the community known as Gnostics. They did not find that Jesus’ teachings contravened traditional views on reincarnation.


Constantine changed views completely.


Orthodox Christianity. I believe it accurate to say that up to the Council of Nicea in 325 CE, most followers of Jesus likely continued to include reincarnation in their worldviews, even if only a passive acceptance of it. However, the newly-converted, Roman emperor Constantine’s consolidation of disparate Christian groups and their contradicting views ending up favoring the belief that a soul only incarnated once.


This was a control technique that people are still taught and buy. Hook, line and sinker.



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 07:28 AM
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The Dark Ages. In the era some historians call the Dark Age (5th through the 10th century), the orthodox bodies of Judaism, Christianity and Islam had all decided in favor of a dogma that focused on a single incarnation per soul. In their view it had one lifetime and one possible route (through their theology) to determine if it would rejoin its creator. This theology strengthened the hand of religious leaders who wanted to maintain the role of spokesmen for and gatekeepers to their God. The notion of a transcendent, unique soul charting a self-learning journey through many lifetimes provided too much scope for free will and self-accountability. When the Albigenses and Cathars revived discussion of reincarnation within the broader community of Christianity in the 12th and 13th centuries, they were as decimated by Papal-directed inquisitions as were the Gnostics and Manicheans in earlier days. In the 15th century, Neo-Platonists resurrected earlier concepts of reincarnation, but in a mystical manner that did not threaten the supernatural religions. In the next century, the likes of Italian philosopher Tommaso Campanella and cosmologist Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake in 1600 for his views) incorpoated reincarnation into integral models of the natural universe. In the late 18th and early 19th centuries, Enlightenment scholars like Henry More, Lessing and Hume combined the tools of science with mysticism. Romantic poets like Percy Bysshe Shelly and William Blake energized private discussions about reincarnation, but the established religions still dismissed it. Open discussion of it was only possible in esoteric traditions like the Rosicrucians and the Theosophists. It remained to the poets to keep the concept alive in the Western World. William Wordsworth (1770-1850) wrote of reincarnation in "Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting: The soul that rises with us, our life's star, Hath had elsewhere its setting, And Cometh from afar." In the early 20th century Arab poet Kahlil Gibran (1883-1931) popularized the theme of reincarnation: "A little while, a moment of rest upon the wind, and another woman shall bear me." Not until the second half of the 20th century did scientists begin to re-focus their techniques on evidence in our everyday world for human reincarnation.


It is such a dark age.... whereas many are kept in the dark if they do not seek the word of God and quit depending on the word of man to validate his very own spirit and soul.

Spreading the love of God is much easier than spreading hate.

No loving father would give their child one chance at life. Only an evil one would do such a thing and this is why Jesus asks us to choose. Which God will lead your heart? A loving or an evil one?



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 07:34 AM
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I think we can clearly see reincarnation was and is taught in the Bible, one just has to read it for them self and not rely on the word of man to replace the word of God.


The word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:4-5, NIV Solomon tells us in the following passage that if we do evil deeds in this life, we will have to reap the effects in our next incarnation. It is clear in this passage that Solomon believed in reincarnation. Having forsaken the law, these ungodly men will be reborn in another life to inherit their curse. Woe be unto you, ungodly men, which have forsaken the law of the most high God: for if you increase it shall be to your destruction. And if you be born, you shall be born to a curse� Ecclesiasticus 41:8-9, KJV, 1611 Edition, Apocrypha Flavius Josephus, born 37 C.E., died after 93 C.E., is the most well know Jewish historian. He was a Pharisee, born Joseph ben Matthias who served as a commander in Galilee in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. His Jewish Antiquities, written about 93 C.E., describes the history of the Jews from the Creation onward with a particularly full account of the Maccabees and the dynasty of Herod. Reincarnation runs through his works like salt through a salt shaker. He talks of rebirth in such a matter-of-fact way that one must assume it was an accepted way of thinking which was so common at the time that it did not merit any further explanation. Many historians believe the previously mentioned discussions between Jesus and the disciples involving rebirth are the same. There was no expounding of the doctrine because it was so commonly understood. The bodies of all men are, indeed, mortal, and are created out of corruptible matter; but the soul is ever immortal, and is a portion of the divinity that inhabits our bodies. . . . Do not you know, that those who depart out of this life according to the laws of nature . . . enjoy eternal fame; that their houses and posterity are sure; that their souls are pure and obedient, and obtain a most holy place in heaven, from whence, in the revolution of ages, they are again sent . . . into bodies; while the souls of those whose hands have acted madly against themselves are received by the darkest place in Hades? The Works of Flavius Josephus, translated by William Wiston


Cause and effect are evident. Reap what you sow whether in this life or the next. What you do to others will be done to you. This is why it is so important to preach, teach, and show love to your neighbor as yourself. It requires you to come outside of yourself and relate to others from within and not abroad.


Going back to the time of Christ we do not have to look far to discover a large cheering section for the doctrine of rebirth among the orthodox Jewish leaders of that period. There are three learned Jewish philosophers appearing just before or at the time of Christ who taught the doctrine of reincarnation. They were Philo Judaeus, aka Philo of Alexandria, C. 20 B.C.E.- C. 50 C.E., who was the greatest Jewish philosopher and theologian of the Greco-Roman period whose writings have survived; the Jewish sage Hillel, the great Chaldean teacher who was the leading Pharisee in Jerusalem during the late 1st century B.C.E. and early years of the present era; and the great Jewish sage Jehoshuah ben Pandira. Today these three men are household names in Judaism and garner enormous respect from all orthodox Jews regardless of sect. They are prominent fixtures in Jewish religious history and they all taught the doctrine of reincarnation.


reincarnation.ws...



posted on Sep, 21 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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THE BLIND MAN As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" John 9:1-2, NIV The disciples wanted to know the reason for the man's blindness. They offered two possibilities to Jesus. Either the man was blind because of the sins of his parents or he was blind because he was reaping the fruit of his own sins (karma). If our souls do not exist prior to this birth and if the man was born blind, then when or where could he have committed the sins that caused his blindness? His soul would have existed prior to that birth and he would have been engaged in a corporeal setting with other people to commit sins against or with. In other words, the blind man had a previous life. This indicates that the pre-existence of the soul was a prevalent idea among the disciples, otherwise how could they have asked such an unusual question? Neither does Jesus ask them where they got such a strange idea. He does not marvel that they have presented him with such a foolish concept. Where did they get this idea? As we have seen in the "blind man" scripture and other scriptures, the concept of reincarnation was understood by Jesus and the disciples. They employed the concept in these discussions in a matter-of-fact way. ELIJAH'S RETURN Elijah the prophet is believed to have lived in the ninth century B.C.E. At the point of his death a fiery chariot with horses of fire took him in a whirlwind to heaven and he was seen no more (II Kings 2:11). Four hundred years later, Malachi closed the last lines of the Old Testament with a prophecy from God stating that God would send Elijah before the "great and terrible day of the Lord" comes (Malachi 4:5). The Jewish people were expecting Elijah to return as the necessary preface to signal the coming of the Messiah. The disciples all felt that Jesus was the Messiah but they were puzzled. Where is Elijah? The disciples asked the Master about this and he told them that Elijah had already returned as John the Baptist. The first discussion of this is in Matthew, chapter 11. I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 11:11-15, NIV The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. Matthew 17:10-13, NIV The above scripture indicates that the disciples and Jesus believed in reincarnation. John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah. In an attempt to fit these scriptures into the orthodox view of one-life-only, some believe that Elijah never died as we know it because he went up in a chariot of fire, thus discounting John the Baptist as an instance of reincarnation. Their thinking is that Elijah did inhabit John the Baptist but it was not rebirth because Elijah had never died. For this "discounting" to really work, the Baptist would need to have returned in the same fiery chariot as a grown man. However, he was clearly placed in the womb of a human mother after which he had a very mortal and common birth. Jesus said he was "born of woman" and in Luke 1:13-17, an angel tells John's father, Zacharias, that John will be born to his wife Elizabeth... "And he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah." Others use this last line to say that John the Baptist was under the power of Elijah but was not the incarnation of Elijah. However, Jesus says in no uncertain terms that John is Elijah and not simply an ambassador of Elijah's power, "This is Elijah... He who has ears to hear let him hear" (Matthew 11:14-15). Also, Malachi does not say that Elijah will appear by proxy but that Elijah himself will return. WHO IS THE SON OF MAN? Yet another discussion between Jesus and the disciples underscores their belief in reincarnation. When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."






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