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Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend, Messiah Jesus refutes this.

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posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247



At least with Jesus you won't be dropping anvils on anyone's heads.
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You are right! Instead we would advocate slavery, incest, genocide and narcissism.

An anvil seems harmless in comparison.


None of that has ever been done by the Church.




posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
70 million people lost their lives because of terrible human beings, not because of Atheism


Yeah, that's the handy thing about an irrational philosophy... when an atheist does something bad, it's because he's a bad person... when he does something good, it's because he's not "handcuffed with primitive beliefs." And when a theist does something bad, it's because of religion, and when he does something good... oh, wait, theists never do anything good.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 




Now you see why we needed a Savior, you just took your first step towards confession. Man cannot fix these problems, many have tried and failed on their own. Without Divine Intervention we will destroy ourselves. Religioons are just an excuse for the nonreligious, and one day when there are no religions what will be the excuse for war, murder, greed, lust for power sex and money? For what will men murder other men for in that day and what excuse will they use then? Exactly, there will be no more scapegoating, responsibility will fall on mankind and it will reap what it has sown.


We never needed a Savior, and never had one. My 1st step towards confession???


Man cannot fix these problems because man is so busy making sure what they do is in accordance to their religion and not towards the benefit of mankind.

You seem to bright to be this ill informed so let me break it down for you:

Wars are cause by disagreements. Religious beliefs are the root of most disagreements. When you eliminate the root of the problem you can move towards a solution. War, murder, greed, lust, power, sex and money will always be issues in a world where 2 people can never agree on everything, it is simply human nature. But eliminating the root of most of our conflicts would do a great justice to taking a step in the right direction.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your religion, along with all the others has no place in a modern society where people are trying to better themselves and their fellow human beings. There comes a time where people stop believing the world is flat.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 


That might be the most ignorant comment I've ever seen on ATS.

I'd expect it from a new member but you've been here longer than me, smh, unbelievable...



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:05 PM
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Yeah, that's the handy thing about an irrational philosophy... when an atheist does something bad, it's because he's a bad person... when he does something good, it's because he's not "handcuffed with primitive beliefs." And when a theist does something bad, it's because of religion, and when he does something good... oh, wait, theists never do anything good.
reply to post by adjensen
 



Plenty of theists have done great things for humanity, but that in no way validates their beliefs.

And for all the good they can do, they still have to believe that only their god is the supreme deity and all others are fake, and that somehow they are the chosen ones. That in itself is more than a primitive handcuff, it's a God damned anchor.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by truejew
 


That might be the most ignorant comment I've ever seen on ATS.



What comment are you speaking of?



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247



Yeah, that's the handy thing about an irrational philosophy... when an atheist does something bad, it's because he's a bad person... when he does something good, it's because he's not "handcuffed with primitive beliefs." And when a theist does something bad, it's because of religion, and when he does something good... oh, wait, theists never do anything good.
reply to post by adjensen
 



Plenty of theists have done great things for humanity, but that in no way validates their beliefs.


Whoo-boy, that's even better. When a theist does something bad, it's because they're religious... when they do something good, it's in spite of their beliefs.

Like I said... irrational philosophy.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 


The one where you said "no church has ever done any of that"

Its irrelevant now considering your user name and avatar.

I apologize on behalf of whatever/whoever brainwashed you, I sincerely do



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


No buddy, theists are capable of doing bad things without it being religiously motivated.

Just as they can do good things that aren't religiously motivated.

The problem is that there are limitations a religion can put on someone which voids their rationality and logic, Atheists remove those limitations and are able to think freely and solely from their brain.

As an atheist myself I have no problem admitting that if even a shred of evidence came forward to prove the accuracy of any religion I would gladly consider and maybe even convert.

But a theist is so grounded in their ways and beliefs that anything that contradicts their views is a product of the devil and therefore immediately dismissed.

You want to talk about irrational philosophy? Lol, that's mother of all irrationality IMO

FYI, we were ALL born Atheists, what evidence made you decide to become a believer if I may ask?
edit on 9/17/2012 by raiders247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by truejew
 


The one where you said "no church has ever done any of that"

Its irrelevant now considering your user name and avatar.

I apologize on behalf of whatever/whoever brainwashed you, I sincerely do


Do you have proof that the Church has done any of what you accuse?



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 


I do but in my experience proof means nothing to a religious person therefore I won't waste my time.

If proof meant anything to you, you would be an Atheist.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by truejew
 


I do but in my experience proof means nothing to a religious person therefore I won't waste my time.

If proof meant anything to you, you would be an Atheist.



Are you here to deny ignorance or not? Proof or it did not happen.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by truejew
 


I do but in my experience proof means nothing to a religious person therefore I won't waste my time.

If proof meant anything to you, you would be an Atheist.



Can you provide this proof there is no God that you mentioned?



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




I never said there is proof of NO GOD

I said there is NO PROOF that a god does exist.

You should learn the difference between those two statements



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 


Ok I'll play the game but I have a question first:

If I do provide you with proof, will you abandon your religious beliefs or at least consider the possibility your beliefs are wrong?

Your answer will determine if I can deny your ignorance or not.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I can't believe I missed such a crucial detail in Proverbs (the passage you quoted in your OP). I have read proverbs MANY times (probably one of the books I have read most in the bible) and I never noticed the significance of the very last verse you quoted. It never ceases to amaze me how such things can be revealed continually through out a persons life. Truly the LIVING word.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by truejew
 


Ok I'll play the game but I have a question first:

If I do provide you with proof, will you abandon your religious beliefs or at least consider the possibility your beliefs are wrong?

Your answer will determine if I can deny your ignorance or not.


I am not here to play your games. Either post proof or be known as a false witness.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by adjensen
 


No buddy, theists are capable of doing bad things without it being religiously motivated.

Just as they can do good things that aren't religiously motivated.

The problem is that there are limitations a religion can put on someone which voids their rationality and logic


Not really. Maybe for some people, but not everyone. If you don't think that Paul doesn't make an extremely rational and logic case for himself, you have no idea what he was saying, and to whom. And I'll put Augustine, Aquinas and a number of other early theologians up there as supremely logic, arguing complex points from a non-emotional base.


Atheists remove those limitations and are able to think freely and solely from their brain.


Yes, well, without something to gauge their beliefs against, by what determination comes morality? If nowhere, there is no check on it (cue Stalin, Mao, hedonists, nihilists, etc) and if there is something to look to, they're not thinking "freely and solely from their brain" -- they've just moved their basis to something else.


FYI, we were ALL born Atheists


What gave you that impression? If one had to make such a pointless blanket statement, it would be that we're all born agnostic, in that we have no notion of whether God exists or not.


what evidence made you decide to become a believer if I may ask?


Physics, actually.
edit on 17-9-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




I never said there is proof of NO GOD

I said there is NO PROOF that a god does exist.

You should learn the difference between those two statements


You never said that. You said if proof mattered people would be Atheists. But I appreciate your honesty that there is no proof to embrace Atheism. You could learn from Bertrand Russell, who when confronted with the same questions did a quick 2 step and changed his stance to Agnosticism. That's simple to defend, you only need to prove you don't know.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Yes, well, without something to gauge their beliefs against, by what determination comes morality? If nowhere, there is no check on it (cue Stalin, Mao, hedonists, nihilists, etc) and if there is something to look to, you're not thinking "freely and solely from their brain" -- they've just moved their basis to something else.
reply to post by adjensen
 


An atheists morality comes from one simple principle, and that is do to others as you would want done to you.



What gave you that impression? If one had to make sure a pointless blanket statement, it would be that we're all born agnostic, in that we have no notion of whether God exists or not.


No one is born with a belief in a supernatural being, it is taught to them and most likely forced upon them. By your reasoning I could say we were born agnostics when it comes to fairies and leprechauns, but how much sense does that make? The fact is we don't believe/know anything until someone or something puts the possibility in our heads. Atheism doesnt claim to have proof of no god, it is a concept that refuses to believe something without proof first.



Physics, actually.


I LOVE physics and science, but no where have I found a shred of evidence that supports a God's existence, and neither has physics or science. Just because something is amazing beyond comprehension doesn't automatically prove God. People used to believe that Zues caused thunder, little did they know, same can be said for now...

The FACTS are: There is no proof of God, you can argue, you can recite biblical verses, you can hold a prayer ceremony with 2 billion people for all I care, but that still in NO way proves that a God exists.






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