Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend, Messiah Jesus refutes this.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by adjensen

 

I don't really struggle with it, since it's physical in nature it had to be created, thus the Creator must exist outside of it, and prior to it.

No, it isn't the fact of it that I can't sort out, but the nature of it.

But, as you say, no sense to struggle with it.

Struggle with it! I love you both and you are both great thinkers. I myself do not have any education in physics so I am unsure which equation is breaking your idea of God being outside time and space, but to put it in a visual perspective:

In this visual representation, you will notice that one dimension (the third) is constantly turning into and being enveloped by another, implying that 4 dimensions are dominated by a fifth. Time could be considered the passage of these dimensions within a relativistic framework (a human framework) but ultimately of no universal consequence as compared to dimensions. I.E All things (past, present, and future) exist at once, almost like a large stack of photographs which form a "flip book" when viewed from the right angle. God is within the proper perspective/dimension to view this "flip book" without having to even "flip" it, having written all pages, and seeing them outside of the current dimension we do (3r'd and 4th).

Random musings from an uneducated brain. Disregard everything I just said

Wow. Just realized I'm WAY off topic. Sorry!

edit on 21-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

This is an optical illusion that is possible because of 3D programs like Maya and Blender. While it is interesting, show me something from the actual fifth dimension. Time is the fourth dimension, we experience that every day.

I want to know how the progression in dimensions suddenly leaps from fourth to fifth. 1D is a point on a paper, 2D is a visual representation of one perspective, 3D is now the addition of color depth and light variance, as a point in space. The fourth dimension is how time acts upon a point in space. But the fifth is no longer physical? How was that leap made?

Dimensionality went from one point to a time-reactive point in space through progression, then made a giant hurdle beyond the physical. This video is not representative of the fifth dimension, it is a replay of the 3rd and 4th. It is an optical illusion created by a 3D program.

reply to post by WarminIndy


You see the 5th dimension all around you, gravity and electromagnetism. Thank Kaluza - Klein. We can go even more dimensions with Yang- Mills light and supergravity. The current models are 11 dimensional. But some can only be inferred via indirect means because they are curled smaller than a particle of light.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

You see the 5th dimension all around you, gravity and electromagnetism. Thank Kaluza - Klein. We can go even more dimensions with Yang- Mills light and supergravity. The current models are 11 dimensional. But some can only be inferred via indirect means because they are curled smaller than a particle of light.

edit on 23-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Thank you for explaining that one. So it is still physical. I was wondering because The Fifth Dimension would have us believe this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. If the Age of Aquarius dawned then, are we in it now? So now I will have to study this. Sounds interesting, but highly technical.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

You see the 5th dimension all around you, gravity and electromagnetism. Thank Kaluza - Klein. We can go even more dimensions with Yang- Mills light and supergravity. The current models are 11 dimensional. But some can only be inferred via indirect means because they are curled smaller than a particle of light.

edit on 23-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Thank you for explaining that one. So it is still physical. I was wondering because The Fifth Dimension would have us believe this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. If the Age of Aquarius dawned then, are we in it now? So now I will have to study this. Sounds interesting, but highly technical.

Not sure but i think Aquarius starts 12-21-12. I don't like to look at astrology. I kow it's going to start soon if not already. Aquarius is the new ager's "Golden Age of Man" which is our tribulation.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by adjensen

 

I don't really struggle with it, since it's physical in nature it had to be created, thus the Creator must exist outside of it, and prior to it.

No, it isn't the fact of it that I can't sort out, but the nature of it.

But, as you say, no sense to struggle with it.

Struggle with it! I love you both and you are both great thinkers. I myself do not have any education in physics so I am unsure which equation is breaking your idea of God being outside time and space, but to put it in a visual perspective:

In this visual representation, you will notice that one dimension (the third) is constantly turning into and being enveloped by another, implying that 4 dimensions are dominated by a fifth. Time could be considered the passage of these dimensions within a relativistic framework (a human framework) but ultimately of no universal consequence as compared to dimensions. I.E All things (past, present, and future) exist at once, almost like a large stack of photographs which form a "flip book" when viewed from the right angle. God is within the proper perspective/dimension to view this "flip book" without having to even "flip" it, having written all pages, and seeing them outside of the current dimension we do (3r'd and 4th).

Random musings from an uneducated brain. Disregard everything I just said

Wow. Just realized I'm WAY off topic. Sorry!

edit on 21-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

This is an optical illusion that is possible because of 3D programs like Maya and Blender. While it is interesting, show me something from the actual fifth dimension. Time is the fourth dimension, we experience that every day.

I want to know how the progression in dimensions suddenly leaps from fourth to fifth. 1D is a point on a paper, 2D is a visual representation of one perspective, 3D is now the addition of color depth and light variance, as a point in space. The fourth dimension is how time acts upon a point in space. But the fifth is no longer physical? How was that leap made?

Dimensionality went from one point to a time-reactive point in space through progression, then made a giant hurdle beyond the physical. This video is not representative of the fifth dimension, it is a replay of the 3rd and 4th. It is an optical illusion created by a 3D program.

I use 3d programs every day (native maya user here), so I can absolutely confirm that you are correct!

I was trying to use a simple (archaically so) visual representation as to why God can be outside of both time and space. I guess I failed miserably on that front

I should know by now having worked as an artist along side programmers, that when speaking to the mathematically minded, one should use the language of mathematics to convey their issues. Unfortunately I am mathematically retarded.

From my limited understanding of physics, and quantum physics, there is reasonable evidence to suggest we are living in a multidimensional universe (beyond 4 or even 5 dimensions). If such a multidimensional construct of reality exists, from what dimension does it's creator view it?

I guess that was the notion I was trying to stress (That time and space are relative, to their respective relationships)

Originally posted by DeadSeraph


I use 3d programs every day (native maya user here), so I can absolutely confirm that you are correct!

I was trying to use a simple (archaically so) visual representation as to why God can be outside of both time and space. I guess I failed miserably on that front

I should know by now having worked as an artist along side programmers, that when speaking to the mathematically minded, one should use the language of mathematics to convey their issues. Unfortunately I am mathematically retarded.

From my limited understanding of physics, and quantum physics, there is reasonable evidence to suggest we are living in a multidimensional universe (beyond 4 or even 5 dimensions). If such a multidimensional construct of reality exists, from what dimension does it's creator view it?

I guess that was the notion I was trying to stress (That time and space are relative, to their respective relationships)

edit on 24-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Blender user myself. And NotUrTypical explained it to me so don't think you failed, the information just had to be presented differently to me, that is all. You are like me, the creative minded, what is that, right brained? I am right brained but countered with Dyslexia and severe Dyscalculia, so no math for me either. Forget solving word problems, I can't make formulas based on them.

Right Brain Vs. Left Brain

This why I understand Aristotle, because of the abstract nature of things. I understand the Echad, the unity, because I am looking at the whole. At least you were able to conceptualize it for the very logical and analytical NotUrTypical, he was capable of transmitting the information to me.

I want to ask though, are time and space mutually relative? Does time exist in dead space? I always wondered this myself. When you live in a house, you know time is going on, but when you move out of that house, have you noticed that the house decays much more quickly than if you are still in it?

I have seen this myself, walking past houses that are boarded up and they are falling apart, while the house beside it is still fairly ok. Maybe the people that live in it are keeping it up, but I can't understand that. You notice that houses abandoned for only one year look as though they have been like that for 50 years. Does time speed up when humans are not in the space? Do we absorb energy that slows time down?

I asked myself this for a long time. I think that as humans, and time was meant for humans to live by, time must be accelerated where no humans are at, then we enter the space and time slows down for us.

What happens to space where no human is? I have heard several times of people dying and their watches stopping at the moment of death. My mom once told me that when you are in a "haunted house" and hear things it is because that moment is replayed over and over again. That would make sense because sound is a form of energy. Those houses are usually cold, so no heat transference occurs.

Now I have a whole lot of new things to ponder. But thank you for explaining this to me, and from what you said, yes, I understand that statement.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
From my limited understanding of physics, and quantum physics, there is reasonable evidence to suggest we are living in a multidimensional universe (beyond 4 or even 5 dimensions). If such a multidimensional construct of reality exists, from what dimension does it's creator view it?

True quantum multi-dimensionalism (multi-universe theory) is a bizarre theory that is, in my opinion, a convenient explanation of quantum phenomenon that are difficult (if not impossible) to explain by other means, but is highly unlikely to be correct. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that some people (not meaning you, of course,) use to justify all sorts of crazy notions and impartation of "magic".

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

You see the 5th dimension all around you, gravity and electromagnetism. Thank Kaluza - Klein. We can go even more dimensions with Yang- Mills light and supergravity. The current models are 11 dimensional. But some can only be inferred via indirect means because they are curled smaller than a particle of light.

edit on 23-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Thank you for explaining that one. So it is still physical. I was wondering because The Fifth Dimension would have us believe this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. If the Age of Aquarius dawned then, are we in it now? So now I will have to study this. Sounds interesting, but highly technical.

Not sure but i think Aquarius starts 12-21-12. I don't like to look at astrology. I kow it's going to start soon if not already. Aquarius is the new ager's "Golden Age of Man" which is our tribulation.

edit on 24-9-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

I don't like astrology either because it is so wide open to interpretation. If it can be open to interpretation then how can it be correct. I can see why God would say not to use it, because it causes people to believe in something extremely wrong. The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun, so whatever happens in the future will have already happened, that is why we have history. Perhaps that is a new way of looking at the verse, but as I had mentioned in another thread to you, we can view patterns for what is going to happen because those same patterns existed before and events occurred. Astrology seems focused on imagining what will happen in the future, but there is no real way to say that because we are not even promised tomorrow and they think every age is unique.

Jesus very clearly teaches us that the time when He comes back will be like the age of Noah. We have entered the Age of Noah. Can I coin a new phrase here? The Noahic Age.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

You see the 5th dimension all around you, gravity and electromagnetism. Thank Kaluza - Klein. We can go even more dimensions with Yang- Mills light and supergravity. The current models are 11 dimensional. But some can only be inferred via indirect means because they are curled smaller than a particle of light.

edit on 23-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Thank you for explaining that one. So it is still physical. I was wondering because The Fifth Dimension would have us believe this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. If the Age of Aquarius dawned then, are we in it now? So now I will have to study this. Sounds interesting, but highly technical.

Well, the "age of Aquarius" is a zodiac thing for New Agers, it really has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with quantum physics. Like the Mayan 12-21-12 thing, it doesn't mean the end of the world, it signals the end of one age and the beginning of another based on the zodiac.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

You see the 5th dimension all around you, gravity and electromagnetism. Thank Kaluza - Klein. We can go even more dimensions with Yang- Mills light and supergravity. The current models are 11 dimensional. But some can only be inferred via indirect means because they are curled smaller than a particle of light.

edit on 23-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Thank you for explaining that one. So it is still physical. I was wondering because The Fifth Dimension would have us believe this is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. If the Age of Aquarius dawned then, are we in it now? So now I will have to study this. Sounds interesting, but highly technical.

Not sure but i think Aquarius starts 12-21-12. I don't like to look at astrology. I kow it's going to start soon if not already. Aquarius is the new ager's "Golden Age of Man" which is our tribulation.

edit on 24-9-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

The only thing that could begin then is Daniel's 70th week, remember the "great tribulation" is only the last 3 1/2 years of that week. I happen to believe the wars of Ezekiel 38 & 39 and the Psalm 83 wars happen before Daniel's 70th week.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Have you ever heard of "gravitational time dilation"?

reply to post by WarminIndy

Jesus very clearly teaches us that the time when He comes back will be like the age of Noah. We have entered the Age of Noah. Can I coin a new phrase here? The Noahic Age

History does loop around, and it gets worse everytime until the end. For instance, the Church followed the foosteps of Israel, right down to the apostacies at the beginning that Paul fought against, which mirrored Moses fight against apostacy at Mt. Sinai with the golden calf incident. Paul was our (gentiles) Moses. The church turned around again and mirrored more apostacies as it compromised with the pagans too much (the Compromising Church of Pergamos and the Corrupt Church of Thyatira) after the Ephesus and Smyrna church ages (Rome), which again mirrored Elijah's fight against Jezebel and her Ba'al and Ashtoreth sex magic worship. By the time Jesus showed up 2000 years ago Israel was in the state of Laodicea and when he returns he shall find the Church also in the state of Laodicea which was also the same state the world was in in Noah's time before the great flood, and Jacob's Trouble will purify those "foolish virgins" who failed to keep enough oil in their lamps. This is all just one huge cycle.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Have you ever heard of "gravitational time dilation"?

No, now this is something else I will look up. I learn a lot coming to ATS, at least you know what you are talking about when it comes to these things.

Now this is an interesting concept. So say that calendars were indeed made by Gregorian monks closer to the equator than say, someone in Scandinavia. Their calculations would obviously be different. That would also mean the Mayans were creating a calendar based on their observations, without taking into consideration that time was actually slower for them. They are not slow by very much, but perhaps it is slow enough that what they believed they saw could actually happen in more of a future.

It makes me wonder, if the pyramids of Egypt were covered with bright white limestone, would this cause a refraction of like? Instead of being a prism where all light is separated in the color band so individual colors are seen, would the light refraction on the pyramids cause a magnetic energy that could be felt by the person who was viewing it? And could that energy then be harnessed?

Maybe that is the reason for the steppe pyramids of the Mayans. If they are so close to the equator and time actually bending for them, but each step would transfer energy back into a loop before it finally descended, is it possible for this to happen?

I know that audio is like that and recording studios are made to be not parallel because the sound waves should bounce back at the microphone at different angles to get a less hollow sound. I don't understand energy like I should, it seems that when I was young they told us it was a particular way, but now we are moving past a very elementary understanding.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
I remember that Mohammed only dreamed of stepping on the Mount and acceding to heaven . He had a reputation of running with the women and not a holy figure from what I understood . He was rejected in general and his religion banned if I remember right . But Islam caught on with the young people .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I remember that Mohammed only dreamed of stepping on the Mount and acceding to heaven . He had a reputation of running with the women and not a holy figure from what I understood . He was rejected in general and his religion banned if I remember right . But Islam caught on with the young people .

Actually it was not the young people attracted to it first. He "converted" homeless people first, gave them ranks within his newly formed army and proceeded to raid caravans to fund his army. This was while he was emigrated (kicked out of Mecca) to Medina. After enough raiding and enough followers, he went back to Mecca with this army and killed anyone who disagreed with him.

His companions were his age. Uthman and Abu Bakr were just two, and Abu Bakr was the father of Aisha. Yes, he was at first banned in Mecca and only after 23 years did he formulate his own interpretation of an already established religion. He did not make anything new, he just wanted to say he was the last.

Islam began as a political entity. The religion came later. It was not just young men, women were throwing themselves at Mohammed to have sex with him. This was commented on by Aisha when she said "why do women do this? I see that your lord hastens to please you". Mohammed said the women were hoping to find salvation by having sex with him and he was more than happy to oblige them. Doesn't that sound familiar? Jim Jones, David Koresh, Warren Jeffs and Joseph Smith all said the same thing and did the same.

Aisha knew he was false, that he was not a prophet and that Islam was not real. But unfortunately for her, she was caught in a very bad situation, it was not her fault this old man raped her when she was 9. It was not her fault that Mohammed had her veiled to keep others from talking to her, or her talking to other people.

In fact, it was Aisha and Safiya who went to the men of Medina to tell them what Mohammed was doing, and Mohammed proceeded to sequester his wives so they would not plot against him again. You can see this young girl was in a terrible place, in the weeks before he died, he only allowed his wives to eat dates and drink water. This was after he was at Kaibar, and poisoned by lamb. He beat Aisha, and no one would help her. He died when she was only 18, and Mohammed said that no other man could ever marry his wives after he died.

Mohammed and Zainab.

Originally posted by ThinkingCap
Huh, so you are saying that the monotheistic God is none other than Jesus Christ? I thought he was the son of the monotheistic God? How can he be both?

From the Gospel of St. John, Chapter 1:

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. [4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
...
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. These three Persons are totally unified in essence. In other words, the essence of God. So, The Father is God, but is not the Son or the Holy Ghost; the Son is God but but is not the Father or the Holy Ghost; the Holy Ghost is God, but is not the Father or the Son. We call this the Holy Trinity.
An admittedly deficient example follows, for who can comprehend in totality a Mystery so Glorious?
Think, for example, of H2O, aka, Water. In its liquid form, it's H2O but it is not vapor (steam) or solid (ice); steam is water, but not liquid or solid; Ice is water, but not liquid or vapor; yet, all three of these are H2O.

But in essence, by physical properties alone, it is united in essence of water-- though distinct in its states.

However, this is deficient in that if you have seen water in liquid form you have not seen ice, whereas if you have seen the Son you have seen the Father-- for who can view the essence of water? In essence, that is to say, substance, not the accidents, you have seen water though you do not comprehend it as such in these terms; whereas in Christ, this is met perfectly for they are one in essence: being the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Make more sense?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
after a liar speaking serpent language

I stopped reading after that.
A discussion of higher learning would conclude
intellectual means and is not 'won' by name calling
or by being derogatory in such a childish manner.

Next time you will be reported

___________________

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The King of Israel is Yahweh, the King of Israel is Yeshua (Jesus). They are the one and the same, the First and the Last and besides Him there is no God.

. . . in only your belief, period.
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

John 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
It's time for the N'Tzarim to awaken.
True N'Tzarim follow our King Yeshua and actually care about pleasing him.

True N'Tzarim women covered their hair, and didn't eat
pork, fasted, treated others the same way you want them to treat you. So why are you not pleasing him but attacking those who do ?
Walk the talk or else be a hypocrite.

_________________________