Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend, Messiah Jesus refutes this.

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posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by luciddream
Ah the "My religion is more right" trick... an oldest trick in the old middle east.
edit on 9/17/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)


It's not about religions. It's about faith and what is true about Jesus the Messiah and what he said. According to him he is the only one who ever ascended and descended, so Muhammad is in error. By Muhammad saying he ascended and descended he is saying his is Messiah as according to Proverbs 30:4 and John 3:13, so he is putting himself above Jesus which is blasphemy.




posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by luciddream
Ah the "My religion is more right" trick... an oldest trick in the old middle east.
edit on 9/17/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)


More playing around with duality again but that is probably the only fun thing to do in this place due to it's disconnection to the rest of reality. Come to earth and be human. You will be able to hate one another with a vengence over differences in perspective of god that humans have created and cannot seem to shake. And if you are not fond of religion you can try the race/nationalism/monetary system dualities that can be so much fun to argue about while wasting time and overusing the resources the planet has.

And if you become really tired of this planet and want a bit of home then you can experiance being both spiritually limited connected to the rest of reality but still being trapped in a body here. Earth the planet you love to hate.

You can say one thing about earth. At least it is not boring being here.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


It's not a matter of Christians criticizing Islam. The basic issue is this. The Christian religion claims Jesus ascended into Heaven from Jerusalem. Now what is a newer less established religion going to do? They need to claim the same thing, so they have Mohammed and his horse ascend to Heaven from the Second Temple to show their God is as good as the Christian God, plus they add a horse to do him one better. Plus they build their Dome on the Rock right on top of the Second Temple. It's just like the new cat on the block marking his territory by peeing on top of the old cat's marking spots.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by luciddream
Ah the "My religion is more right" trick... an oldest trick in the old middle east.
edit on 9/17/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)


It's not about religions. It's about faith and what is true about Jesus the Messiah and what he said. According to him he is the only one who ever ascended and descended, so Muhammad is in error. By Muhammad saying he ascended and descended he is saying his is Messiah as according to Proverbs 30:4 and John 3:13, so he is putting himself above Jesus which is blasphemy.


Nobody is above Jesus and nobody is below Jesus from my point of view. He knows more about some things but knowing more does not equal worth. You are making Jesus into an idol where he was the message and messanger in one connected to the whole. He is part of god and can be guided by god in the oneness and because of the closeness between them him or god would say the same thing. But he is not the whole god. If he was the earth would have been destroyed/altered with the rest of this galaxy.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


It's not a matter of Christians criticizing Islam. The basic issue is this. The Christian religion claims Jesus ascended into Heaven from Jerusalem. Now what is a newer less established religion going to do? They need to claim the same thing, so they have Mohammed and his horse ascend to Heaven from the Second Temple to show their God is as good as the Christian God, plus they add a horse to do him one better. Plus they build their Dome on the Rock right on top of the Second Temple. It's just like the new cat on the block marking his territory by peeing on top of the old cat's marking spots.



Yes, and one look within the Hebrew Bible with it's New Testament companion, leaves their Quran in the dirt because Yahweh saw this coming a long time ago so he left provisions with which we could combat the 7th head of the Beast that himself shall be the 8th.

Jesus said he's the only one to ever descend and ascend. Islam can make their bold claims but they are in error and are inheriting lies and believing them. Whats found in the OT and NT Holy Bible go hand in hand and they both point at the Quran and say it's a made up forgery. Muhammad claiming he ascended and descended is the same as claiming he is Messiah and greater than Jesus. So does the whole "there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger" bit, because christians know the only "Angel of the Lord" is Jesus (Yeshua). So we can clearly see where the contrasts are between the 2 books.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by TheGreatDivider

Originally posted by raiders247

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by raiders247
Who cares?

What good does it do to ponder the claims of historical science fiction?

We should debate facts not hearsay... just my 2 cents


If that's your desire, might I suggest refraining from faith-based forums and threads.


Why should I do that?

This website's motto is "Deny Ignorance"

Don't shoot the messenger...

ETA: In my experience it's this forum (religion/faith) that promotes the most ignorance, if ATS truly wanted to deny ignorance they would remove this forum
edit on 9/17/2012 by raiders247 because: (no reason given)


Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.


Fearing god is like fearing the sun or the planet I walk on. Not much use is it? Learn from god instead and fear evaporates totaly. The only thing I fear is to be caught up with people in duality preaching small minded things (that they hate) to me for eternity.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by luciddream
Ah the "My religion is more right" trick... an oldest trick in the old middle east.
edit on 9/17/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)


It's not about religions. It's about faith and what is true about Jesus the Messiah and what he said. According to him he is the only one who ever ascended and descended, so Muhammad is in error. By Muhammad saying he ascended and descended he is saying his is Messiah as according to Proverbs 30:4 and John 3:13, so he is putting himself above Jesus which is blasphemy.


Nobody is above Jesus and nobody is below Jesus from my point of view. He knows more about some things but knowing more does not equal worth. You are making Jesus into an idol where he was the message and messanger in one connected to the whole. He is part of god and can be guided by god in the oneness and because of the closeness between them him or god would say the same thing. But he is not the whole god. If he was the earth would have been destroyed/altered with the rest of this galaxy.


I am not making Jesus into anything, He is who He is. In the Exodus it doesn't say just a part of Yahweh came down on Mt. Sinai, it says He was there and he commanded Moses not to allow any of of his people to touch the mountain or they would die. I don't know who your God is but mine is omnipresent and he can be everywhere, he is not bound by the laws of physics that he made.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


It's not a matter of Christians criticizing Islam. The basic issue is this. The Christian religion claims Jesus ascended into Heaven from Jerusalem. Now what is a newer less established religion going to do? They need to claim the same thing, so they have Mohammed and his horse ascend to Heaven from the Second Temple to show their God is as good as the Christian God, plus they add a horse to do him one better. Plus they build their Dome on the Rock right on top of the Second Temple. It's just like the new cat on the block marking his territory by peeing on top of the old cat's marking spots.


Yes, and one look within the Hebrew Bible with it's New Testament companion, leaves their Quran in the dirt because Yahweh saw this coming a long time ago so he left provisions with which we could combat the 7th head of the Beast that himself shall be the 8th.


Not that anything different is to be expected, but you are a part of the pissing match. Religions claiming superiority over one another is one of the oldest stories in the book, and responsible for a lot of pain and suffering in the world. It doesn't matter whether Islam is pissing on Christianity and Judaism, Judaism pissing on Christianity and Islam, or Christianity pissing on Islam and Judaism. It's the exact same story of "mine is bigger than yours" done by small-minded people immersed in their own fantasies wanting them to be superior to the fantasies of others. They are still all fantasies, and that's what the adherents of fantasies fail to see.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





If you don't believe why are you here? A real atheist wouldn;t set foot in a forum if he "disbelieved" the things spoken of in. Just sayin.


I'm here to deny ignorance.

A real atheist cares about his fellow humans and their sanity and doesn't mind posting a comment that adds rationality to absurd claims.

Religions have caused more harm to our species/planet/environment than any atheist ever will.

Just sayin.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

In the Exodus it doesn't say just a part of Yahweh came down on Mt. Sinai, it says He was there and he commanded Moses not to allow any of of his people to touch the mountain or they would die.


None of Allah was on Mt. Sinai. Ehjeh was.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I'm here to deny ignorance.


Then deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Jesus Christ.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
Religions have caused more harm to our species/planet/environment than any atheist ever will.


You seriously believe that religions have caused more harm than the 20th Century atheists Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot did?

I'm sure that you're fully aware that there were only three major purely religious wars in history, right? And that less than 5,000 people died in the vaunted Inquisitions? And that the combined death count of those atheist leaders exceeds 70 million people, right?

Just sayin.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 





Then deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Jesus Christ.


My brother I'd pray for you if there was ever any proof that a prayer worked.

To me following Jesus Christ is the equivalent of following Bugs Bunny.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

In the Exodus it doesn't say just a part of Yahweh came down on Mt. Sinai, it says He was there and he commanded Moses not to allow any of of his people to touch the mountain or they would die.


None of Allah was on Mt. Sinai. Ehjeh was.


Could be his name, IEUE which is EEH-EH-OO-EH, sounds similar to Ehyeh. I'm not an ancient language specialist, but i do have some very interesting pics on the evolution of language and hav figured out the pronunciation of some of the letters in semitic languages.












posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by truejew
 





Then deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Jesus Christ.


My brother I'd pray for you if there was ever any proof that a prayer worked.

To me following Jesus Christ is the equivalent of following Bugs Bunny.



At least with Jesus you won't be dropping anvils on anyone's heads.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by raiders247
Religions have caused more harm to our species/planet/environment than any atheist ever will.


You seriously believe that religions have caused more harm than the 20th Century atheists Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot did?

I'm sure that you're fully aware that there were only three major purely religious wars in history, right? And that less than 5,000 people died in the vaunted Inquisitions? And that the combined death count of those atheist leaders exceeds 70 million people, right?

Just sayin.


Yes I seriously believe that the wars that Christian/Jewish nations have started in the middle east is/will be far more damaging than ANYTHING that happened in the 20th century.

Religion promotes division and intolerance, which then leads to disagreements and conflict, which then lead to senseless deaths all because of the "I'm right you're wrong" mentality.

70 million people lost their lives because of terrible human beings, not because of Atheism



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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At least with Jesus you won't be dropping anvils on anyone's heads.
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You are right! Instead we would advocate slavery, incest, genocide and narcissism.

An anvil seems harmless in comparison.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by ThinkingCap
reply to post by TheGreatDivider
 


"Fear is the beginning of knowledge"

No.. No, that's just wrong.

And isn't knowledge supposed to be a big no-no in Christianity (Evil Talking Snake 1:23)


No, it's not. It's the difference between excersicing righteous knowledge and evil knowledge. Case in point, murdering unborn babies is evil, yet people still do it just because they can, those who do not like being held responsible for their evil actions invent excuses to ease their burden of conscience so they can sleep at night. A righteous man or woman would not destroy the innocent unborn.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by truejew
 





Then deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow Jesus Christ.


My brother I'd pray for you if there was ever any proof that a prayer worked.

To me following Jesus Christ is the equivalent of following Bugs Bunny.



If you are not here to deny ignorance, why are you here?



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by raiders247



At least with Jesus you won't be dropping anvils on anyone's heads.
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


You are right! Instead we would advocate slavery, incest, genocide and narcissism.

An anvil seems harmless in comparison.


Now you see why we needed a Savior, you just took your first step towards confession. Man cannot fix these problems, many have tried and failed on their own. Without Divine Intervention we will destroy ourselves. Religions are just an excuse for the nonreligious, and one day when there are no religions what will be the excuse for war, murder, greed, lust for power sex and money? For what will men murder other men for in that day and what excuse will they use then? Exactly, there will be no more scapegoating, responsibility will fall on mankind and it will reap what it has sown.
edit on 17-9-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)





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