Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend, Messiah Jesus refutes this.

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posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


Ill do the rest tomorrow. But as far as the Trinity goes, (and no more red herrings, one topic at a time), I think of white light. It's made up of 3 primary colors yet it's one color of light, white. Also, i've told you this already, you either weren't paying attention or you rejected it before investigating it yourself. The Hebrew word for "one" in the Shema is the same Hebrew word used when it says Adam and Eve became "one" flesh. They were one in unity, purpose and will.


I've always thought of white as the absence of colour... *shrug*

So what you just said was there is three entities acting as God... all with the same motivation purpose and will...

That does not mean ONE God... that means three Gods

Yet here you'll read...

Mark 12:29
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:





posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


No, white is the three primary colors. Look at a color wheel from art.

And Jesus is quoting the "Shema" in that verse. Google "Shema" bro, it's the most famous verse in Judaism. I just explained the Hebrew word used for "one" in that verse above. It means "one in unity", not the number before two. The same Hebrew word is used when it says Adam and Eve became "one flesh".

edit on 20-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:37 AM
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HERE I found this just now for you, I know you won't take my word for anything. I am going to bed though.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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And here:

Yachid VS Echad.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


No, white is the three primary colors. Look at a color wheel from art.

And Jesus is quoting the "Shema" in that verse. Google "Shema" bro, it's the most famous verse in Judaism. I just explained the Hebrew word used for "one" in that verse above. It means "one in unity", not the number before two. The same Hebrew word is used when it says Adam and Eve became "one flesh".

edit on 20-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Meh... i failed art...


So again... you're saying Three Gods... Not one...

Perhaps you could show where it says theres three Gods.... Without the usual 1 John 5:7–8 passage which was clearly added after the fact...




posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



A. The Father

B. Jesus

C Holy spirit

Does 1 +1 + 1 = 1?

edit on 20-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


Akragon, I see you believe in math. We can agree that math is the language of the universe, yes? What do you think about this math? 1 x 1 x1 = 1. But that is rather simplistic, right?


The concept that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts has been known from the time of Aristotle and become a common phrase in English. The same concept might be stated in several different ways and different authors might have something slightly different in mind when they use the phrase.


If the Godhead is the whole comprising of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, then it easily understood that God is one, God is the whole. The parts are the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.



Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


Another math and logic principle...

The transitive property of equality says that if a=b, then b=c.To Prove:

Using the equation:

a=b

substituting the value of b in terms of c:

which is: b=c

therefore:
a=b
a=(c)
a=c


a, b, and c are three separate, individual numbers, yet they are equal and the sum can only be one number. Therefore, One God (which is called the Godhead), contains a, b, and c. The parts cannot be more than the whole. The equality of A (The Father) B (The Son) and C (The Holy Ghost) can only be equal in that equation and can only be one number, not three different numbers.

Do you think John and Paul did not know about the philosophy of Aristotle? Paul we know spent a great deal of time in Greece debating with the Athenians.
Aristotle


For these [viz. teeth and all other parts of natural beings] and all other natural things come about as they do either always or for the most part, whereas nothing which comes about due to chance or spontaneity comes about always or for the most part. … If, then, these are either the result of coincidence or for the sake of something, and they cannot be the result of coincidence or spontaneity, it follows that they must be for the sake of something. Moreover, even those making these sorts of claims [viz. that everything comes to be by necessity] will agree that such things are natural. Therefore, that for the sake of which is present among things which come to be and exist by nature. (Phys. 198b32–199a8)


According to Aristotle, there must be a cause for everything, nothing happens randomly. So the concept of God not creating the universe, but through a random act of spontaneity it cannot then happen. Evolution does not occur within the philosophy of Aristotle.

I think John and Paul understood Aristotle very well.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

According to Aristotle, there must be a cause for everything, nothing happens randomly. So the concept of God not creating the universe, but through a random act of spontaneity it cannot then happen. Evolution does not occur within the philosophy of Aristotle.



Evolution doesn't occur due to random events, infact it occurs due to the complete opposite of random

I wish you guys would get this part right......



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


No, white is the three primary colors. Look at a color wheel from art.

And Jesus is quoting the "Shema" in that verse. Google "Shema" bro, it's the most famous verse in Judaism. I just explained the Hebrew word used for "one" in that verse above. It means "one in unity", not the number before two. The same Hebrew word is used when it says Adam and Eve became "one flesh".

edit on 20-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


People choose to ignore the Hebrew language. Hebrew is math based. Here is the simple explanation for Echad...

Echad is the whole. The parts were Adam and Eve. Even though they were individual, the sum of them can only be Echad, or the whole. One in unity means the sum of the parts can never be greater than the whole. Easy Calculations of Hebrew Numbers


The Hebrew numeric system operates on the additive principle in which the numeric values of the letters are added together to form the total. Example: 249 corresponds to 200 + 40 + 9 = 249. It is represented as below:


249 is the Echad. The whole. 249 seems a rather large number, but it is still Echad, the individual numbers add up to only one number, that number being 249. Because 249 is the Echad of 200 + 40 + 9, it cannot be 250 or 248. It can only be the echad number 249.

Even if 1+1+1= 3, that is still echad, because the sum can only be the whole number 3. Therefore, logically, 3 is ONE whole number. Not three whole numbers. 1+1+1 will always be 3, by virtue of Echad.

Let's look at it this way, 1 apple + 1 apple +1 orange does not equal 3 apples. But rationally and logically we can say they are 1 group of fruit. They are Echad in the greater sense.

1 watermelon + 1 fried chicken leg + 1 can of cola are not equal in the terms of individual parameters. But they become Echad when considering they are all picnic dinner. The Echad as the whole implies a greater unity and the sums of the part will never be greater than the Echad, or the whole.

A car is still a car if you take out one spark plug. The spark plug is an individual part, yet the concept of the spark plug remains. The only time a car is never a car is when the car has been completely dismantled, except the car still remains the concept of a car by virtue. The Echad is achieved not only physically, but symbolically.

So therefore, logically, 1 Father + 1 Son + 1 Holy Ghost will always equal 1 Echad.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by WarminIndy

According to Aristotle, there must be a cause for everything, nothing happens randomly. So the concept of God not creating the universe, but through a random act of spontaneity it cannot then happen. Evolution does not occur within the philosophy of Aristotle.



Evolution doesn't occur due to random events, infact it occurs due to the complete opposite of random

I wish you guys would get this part right......


Throwback to the Big Bang Theory.

Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background


Would you not agree that fluctuations are random events? You cannot be sure when the temperature will fluctuate, therefore not predictable, therefore random.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by WarminIndy

According to Aristotle, there must be a cause for everything, nothing happens randomly. So the concept of God not creating the universe, but through a random act of spontaneity it cannot then happen. Evolution does not occur within the philosophy of Aristotle.



Evolution doesn't occur due to random events, infact it occurs due to the complete opposite of random

I wish you guys would get this part right......


Throwback to the Big Bang Theory.

Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background


Would you not agree that fluctuations are random events? You cannot be sure when the temperature will fluctuate, therefore not predictable, therefore random.



Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang

I wish you guys would get this part right too............



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


No, white is the three primary colors. Look at a color wheel from art.

And Jesus is quoting the "Shema" in that verse. Google "Shema" bro, it's the most famous verse in Judaism. I just explained the Hebrew word used for "one" in that verse above. It means "one in unity", not the number before two. The same Hebrew word is used when it says Adam and Eve became "one flesh".

edit on 20-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Meh... i failed art...


So again... you're saying Three Gods... Not one...

Perhaps you could show where it says theres three Gods.... Without the usual 1 John 5:7–8 passage which was clearly added after the fact...



I can't show you there are 3 Gods, there are not 3 Gods.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by Prezbo369
Evolution doesn't occur due to random events, infact it occurs due to the complete opposite of random


I think that you're confusing evolution with natural selection. The root of evolution is random change, natural selection is the non-random component which determines if the random change is beneficial to survival. Without randomness, nothing would change, and there would be nothing for natural selection to select for.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


You're quite wrong, Polycarp taught that the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father aren't the same personhood of God.


You are wrong, Polycarp taught one God, not three gods/persons.


Originally posted by NOTurTypical

And I never said Polycarp taught there were three gods, you're burning straw men.


Some trinitarians admit to worshiping three gods and some are in denial. I write three gods/persons so you can choose which word to read. I'm not burning any straw men, but if I was, would it be as bad as trinitarians burning real men at the stake?



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by truejew
 


"Burning straw men" means using a straw man fallacy. Inventing and substituting your own version of what someone says and attacking your own version instead of what the other person actually said. And Trinitarians are "monotheists". If people believe in multiple Gods they would be a "polytheist".

And I posted Polycarp's own statements showing he said the Son and the Father are co-existent. Can you refute that with a quote from him saying the Son and the Father are the same personality?



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew
 


"Burning straw men" means using a straw man fallacy. Inventing and substituting your own version of what someone says and attacking your own version instead of what the other person actually said.


I know what it means.


Originally posted by NOTurTypical

And Trinitarians are "monotheists". If people believe in multiple Gods they would be a "polytheist".


All trinitarians are polytheists. Most are in denial.


Originally posted by NOTurTypical

And I posted Polycarp's own statements showing he said the Son and the Father are co-existent. Can you refute that with a quote from him saying the Son and the Father are the same personality?


Can you post a quote from him saying "the Son and the Father are different personalities"?



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


oh i see... so killing a homosexual isn't murder... :shk:

Btw i respect everything you say... i just don't agree with everything you say



That's why I link things. What did you learn by reading the law of noncontradiction link?

God allowed His own Son to be murdered who never once sinned against Him. Now what do you think He feels when a person purposely chooses to do something that they know beforehand carries the death penalty and knows that God has already called an "abomination"?

Why is God not allowed to be righteous and holy? Or Sovereign over His own universe? And what about my question? Would you be a hypocrite when you drank alcohol?

edit on 20-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


If god thought homosexuality is a abomination then why do god not tell ous so. God is capable of making us hear things when god wants to. I have experianced that myself. I know in my heart that true symbiotic love is never wrong. You are pushing the same dualistic thoughts as black and white should not mix or muslim and christians should not intermarry. You might not like homosexuallity. But I do not understand how you will fit in with the blessed ones that are above gender, race, natioalism and small minded dualities. Jesus would say love thy neighbour and do not judge what you do not understand. It is humans who have a problem with the unknown and have to make other people live under their way of thinking even if it does not harm anyone except the human ego.

And by the way. Who says Jesus did not want to go home? Death is just another change. I will not like the moment if there is pain. But the moment after will be very nice.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


We aren't talking about innocent in man's eyes. Who is innocent before GOD's eyes? No one. God doesn't compare us to the drunk down the street who beats his wife, He compares us to His Son. And you can't assume something is God's word to criticize Him, then immediately use the rescuing device that it's not God's Word when you are faced with a tough question. And what about my other Q? Would you be contradicting yourself if you drank alcohol?

And no I don't wonder, you've done what man has done for thousands of years. Created an idol. Shopped for or invented a god to your liking instead of aligning yourself with the One true God and Creator.

edit on 20-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


Lol. All human religons are idols since they are a represention of views of god that are not 100% the thruth. Just because the majority think one things is the thuth does not make it so. Ones people belived earth was flat and the center of the unvierse. They where small minded and wrong. I wonder if we have evolved anything except our ego since then.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


And not entirely accurate, you're about 85% there. The LONC states A and B both cannot be true and false in the same contextual relationship simultaneously. Example. There cannot be only One God and many gods. Either one of those two is correct, or neither are correct. Both claims cannot be true simultaneously in the same contextual relationship because they contradict.


It is not always one end of the extremes that is the thruth even if they seem to contridict each other. That type off thinking only leads to duality and limited understanding.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by WarminIndy

According to Aristotle, there must be a cause for everything, nothing happens randomly. So the concept of God not creating the universe, but through a random act of spontaneity it cannot then happen. Evolution does not occur within the philosophy of Aristotle.



Evolution doesn't occur due to random events, infact it occurs due to the complete opposite of random

I wish you guys would get this part right......


Throwback to the Big Bang Theory.

Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background


Would you not agree that fluctuations are random events? You cannot be sure when the temperature will fluctuate, therefore not predictable, therefore random.



Random for ous who cannot see the order behind the event. For someone keeping track of everything it is easy to callculate what is goint to happen. Random is just human belief in chaos due to to much ignorance and to little informaion.



posted on Sep, 20 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


And not entirely accurate, you're about 85% there. The LONC states A and B both cannot be true and false in the same contextual relationship simultaneously. Example. There cannot be only One God and many gods. Either one of those two is correct, or neither are correct. Both claims cannot be true simultaneously in the same contextual relationship because they contradict.


It is not always one end of the extremes that is the thruth even if they seem to contridict each other. That type off thinking only leads to duality and limited understanding.


It's quite ballsy to basically assert logical superiority to Plato.





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