Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

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posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by powerdrone
 


Re-read the post, and you'll see that you can answer your own question.....wow, amazing stuff!




posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Warp drive won't work. The people inside the craft would still age and die because their time would still be going. It would take a lifetime to get anywhere but your great grandchildren born on the ship would be able to talk to your sister when they return home six months later by earth time. That is my guess anyway. Plotting a course back over long distances would have to take into consideration the speed the solar system is passing through the Milky way and the speed and direction that the milky way is moving in the universe. That would make computations almost impossible because we have no reference points to "zero" in on. Everything is moving.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by rickymouse
 

A quantum computer could make any calculation instananeously, but would have to map spacetime itself I think, so as to pop out in the right spot.

If space and time could be warped or folded, then in theory it might be possible to just jump right to the place you want to go, without travelling through any intermediary distance, and thus the time factor would be resolved.

If they can get here, then eventually we can get out there to the stars, nothing is impossible given enough time.

I think it would be fun in a future lifetime, if reincarnation is possible, to come back destined to be a starship captain and first governor of the new colony based on a utopian society.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by rickymouse
 


read this.
it explains a lil bit more



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 

Einstein's theories are well known because they can be used to predict observable effects. The same used to be said of Newton's theories. In future, as ways in which events happen in the universe are more deeply understood, someone else's theories will supplant those of Einstein.

Physicists are and have been working on such post-Einsteinian developments in the theoretical understanding of the universe.

Time is purely conceptual in my opinion. There is no timestuff.

One of the main pitfalls in physics is the reification of mathematical concepts. That is where the so-called "warping" and "spacetime" come in.

If a bowling ball is rolling down a bowling lane and begins to wander off center, we attribute the wandering to spin on the ball or to warping of the surface of the lane or to both. All of these parameters, including the warp of the surface of the lane, can be checked and measured individually.

Being able to mathematically predict the details of the ball's wandering knowing only it's weight, velocity and rate and direction of spin, and those of other balls in the neighborhood, without reference to the surface it is rolling on is a good trick. That's what Einstein does better than Newton.

But Einstein assumes a warp in the lane's surface, with no way of actually measuring that surface and no way of knowing if an actual warp in the lane had anything to do with changes in the ball's trajectory.

Einstein posits a "warp" in "spacetime" to account for gravitational lensing and other effects predicted by his mathematical model and observed. In doing this he is reifying mathematical results.

I think he is overreaching.

Undoubtedly the effects are real. They are predicted and verified by observation. However, the real cause of these effects is not known.

I don't think there is any way to know or determine if space "warps". As for time, there is simply no reason to believe in it at all.



edit on 18-9-2012 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Thank you for posting that chart. I didn't want to be the one to have to geek out about the difference between warp one and warp two.


Actually, I think the biggest hurdle in space travel won't be speed. In order:

1. Inertial dampeners ... something to keep you from slamming into bulkheads when you accelerate or turn.

2. Main deflectors ... something to keep those pea-sized rocks from going through your hull while you're cruising along at FTL speeds.

3. Navigation ... as you embark on your trek, you have to realize that your destination is already years ahead of where you see it now.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Damn Star Trek... The hours i spend watching you!
Now all your amazing "science fiction" is coming into life... slideing doors, cellphones, holograms, warp drive WAIT WHAT... That would be incredible! next transporter! easy vacations trololol.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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With exciting developments such as this, it makes me wonder about time travel.

If this can be pulled off, then wow, time travel can't be far behind, surely



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Johnkie
Damn Star Trek... The hours i spend watching you!
Now all your amazing "science fiction" is coming into life... slideing doors, cellphones, holograms, warp drive WAIT WHAT... That would be incredible! next transporter! easy vacations trololol.


Yeah, it all sounds good until your evil twin steps out of the transporter.

Or in the case of some of us, the goody two-shoes twin.

It's hard to imagine that there is a version of me in a parallel universe that thinks the Federal Reserve is a good thing.
edit on 18-9-2012 by VictorVonDoom because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by MrSpiderMonkey
This seems too good to be true. Is the source legit?

Please let it be true!

...actually, it might very well be true, they'll make an announcement at the 2012 100 Year Starship Symposium in Houston.


sensitivity analysis started by White in 2011 and completed this year has shown that the energy requirements can be greatly reduced by first optimizing the warp bubble thickness, and further by oscillating the bubble intensity to reduce the stiffness of space time. The results, to be presented at the 2012 100 Year Starship Symposium in Houston

www.icarusinterstellar.org...

All those wishes as a kid would have come true. Now Sit back and weight for the Vulcans to detect the ripple caused by the warping of space time during their first lab test, and decide come visit us to make first contact!
edit on 17-9-2012 by MrSpiderMonkey because: further digging



If the warp drive ever does work, and if said aliens turn up because we have broken the warp
barrier, then said aliens will likely quarantine us as soon as they see wtf we are doing down here.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:17 PM
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It appears that Bob Lazar may not have been as crazy as everyone thought he was.

His information about Element 115 and it's supposed "Properties" just happen to provide the needed "fuel" that the now NASA proposed "Warp Drive" requires. Interesting at least.

Bob Lazar

There is another website out there that also has additional information about the particulars of Bob Lazar. I know that his W2 looks legitimate, and that he was in fact listed in the Los Alamos phone directory at one point...

Not saying the guy is legit - but now that NASA is saying the Alcubierre drive is possible, I find it interesting that Lazar said element 115 would " provide large-scale gravitational effect that would be a distortion of the surrounding space-time continuum that would, in effect, greatly shorten the distance and travel time to a charted destination" which is exactly what an Alcubierre drive (what NASA is saying) does.




posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
Warp drive won't work. The people inside the craft would still age and die because their time would still be going. It would take a lifetime to get anywhere but your great grandchildren born on the ship would be able to talk to your sister when they return home six months later by earth time. That is my guess anyway.


Your description is true in the sense that if matter by itself is travelling near speed of light compared to matter that isn't.

However, in the context of this discussion and the NASA "discovery" then no, it is not true.
You have to think in terms of relativity and how it applies to "references".

For example - You are travelling on a train. The train is moving at 60 mph. If you run on the train at a speed of 5mph are you moving at a total velocity of 5mph, 60mph or 65mph?

The correct answer (I believe) is 60mph. This is because of the frame of reference that you are in. You are travelling at the velocity of the train. If you could run faster than the velocity of the train, then the frame of reference would shift from the train to you. It doesn't matter how fast you move within that that frame as long as you do not exceed it.

In the context of the "warp donut" the same rules apply. The matter inside of the "donut" is not moving. The frame of reference is not the space ship inside the donut, but the donut itself.

This not only applies to velocity, but time - since velocity is v = d / t where V is velocity, d is displacement (distance traveled) and t is time. Since the spacecraft inside the donut doesn't have to move (because it is not the object travelling - the space warp donut is, and as such our frame of reference is the donut) it could be moving at theoretically 0 velocity, which would not affect time.

Hope this helps.

edit on 18-9-2012 by zeeon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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Forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but doesn't this violate causality? From what I know from special relativity, FTL travel violates causality as it implies there are inertial reference frames where the traveler goes back in time. Hence, they would arrive at their destination before they left. How is this warped spacetime "bubble" consistent with causality?
edit on 18-9-2012 by Diablos because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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The theory behind this assumes there will be enough inter space particles to provide fuel.
It would leave a conical trail similar to the shape of..

en.memory-alpha.org...

Current implementation seems to have the same problems.

io9.com...



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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Ok so I have read the entire thread.


A warp bubble separates the craft from normal space-time, and as a result if such a craft, at such speeds, got near the earths atmosphere? Aircraft flying at 30 thousand feet could be affected. Creating a spacecraft that could travel X10 of light could potentially generate a gravitational wake, that could affect solid objects, 10 thousands miles away, as a result of its wake. There could be zero time dilation, but there could be other issues and /or unforeseen problems. Effectively the craft would be invisible in ordinary space-time., as long as it did not travel near a planet or star, its effect should be minimal beyond conventional distances. In so far as asteroids that would be another story. If such an object would come within a certain range, even minimally, the effect could result in devastation upon any planets or moons nearby.

This is not folded space-time, at least as described in common. In this case space is folded around the object allowing it to be separate in a physical way, from the rest of space-time. An analogy could be considered in relation to a train track, but in this case the train can travel in any direction.

Traveling this way requires a very accurate map, because in such a craft, there is an enormous amount of kinetic energy that needs to be considered. An issue being that given one is traveling, in what essentially is a packet of space-time. How would matter react to an alternative space-time?? There could in fact be no obstacle and so therefore one could travel in a strait line.


Any thoughts?








edit on 18-9-2012 by Kashai because: added content



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by zeeon
It appears that Bob Lazar may not have been as crazy as everyone thought he was.

His information about Element 115 and it's supposed "Properties" just happen to provide the needed "fuel" that the now NASA proposed "Warp Drive" requires. Interesting at least.

Bob Lazar

There is another website out there that also has additional information about the particulars of Bob Lazar. I know that his W2 looks legitimate, and that he was in fact listed in the Los Alamos phone directory at one point...

Not saying the guy is legit - but now that NASA is saying the Alcubierre drive is possible, I find it interesting that Lazar said element 115 would " provide large-scale gravitational effect that would be a distortion of the surrounding space-time continuum that would, in effect, greatly shorten the distance and travel time to a charted destination" which is exactly what an Alcubierre drive (what NASA is saying) does.



I believe your hitting some pretty good points. Here is something from Wikipedia regarding Bob Lazar's claims about Area 51 one when he supposedly worked there.


Claims regarding Area 51

In November 1989, Lazar appeared in a special interview with investigative reporter George Knapp on Las Vegas TV station KLAS to discuss his purported employment at "S4", a facility he claims exists within Area 51. In his interview with Knapp, Lazar said he encountered flying saucers. He says he first thought the saucers were secret terrestrial aircraft whose test flights must have been responsible for many UFO reports. Gradually, on closer examination and from having been shown multiple briefing documents, Lazar came to the conclusion that the discs were of extraterrestrial origin. In his filmed testimony Lazar explains how this impression first hit him after he boarded one craft being studied and examined its interior.[7]

For the propulsion of the studied vehicles, Bob Lazar claims that the atomic Element 115 served as a nuclear fuel. Element 115 (temporarily named "ununpentium" (symbol Uup)) reportedly provided an energy source which would produce anti-gravity effects under proton bombardment along with antimatter for energy production. As the intense strong nuclear force field of Element 115's nucleus would be properly amplified, the resulting large-scale gravitational effect would be a distortion of the surrounding space-time continuum that would, in effect, greatly shorten the distance and travel time to a charted destination


Obviously ETs have to have Wrap Drive in order to travel vast distance across the Universe to visit us. Is it possible ETs is secretly handing over their technology to give us Humans a chance to catch up to them? Who really knows what the implications are. Thank you for sharing this information with us



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by zeeon
 


You don't understand, how are you going to know where you are going to end up. Traveling twenty billion miles and coming out, you could hit an asteroid or planet or star. There is no computer capable of knowing where things are in space, a ten foot asteroid could destroy any ship. You need information for input to feed the computer, we have on way of getting that. As far as reference goes, 60 mph is based on us knowing what stopped is. We do not know the speed and exact direction things are traveling. We don't know what stopped is. Sure you could take a star far away and one farther and judge the distance and acceleration. It only works if we know the speed we are traveling though. We can speculate on the speed but we don't have one bit of real evidence to substantiate that. We can tell how far the heliosphere is away, but anything other than that is impossible with the evidence we have.

Boy, I get the impression that people believe that the speculation that science is touting is reality. A theory needs real evidence to back it to which we have none in this case. I don't care if a hundred predominant scientists have thought about this for years, show me hard evidence. There is nothing other than thought involved coupled to what we think we see through a telescope. Thought is a good starting point. Once the satellites get past the heliosphere and travel a million miles then I can see some evidence to show that what we see inside the heliosphere can be used to judge conditions outside the heliosphere. What we see through the telescope can be distorted by our perception of what we think we know.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by MrSpiderMonkey
 


Like your avatar, I always got a good chuckle out of that dance.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by ObjectZero
If they did make a warp drive and some way to make artificial gravity, it makes me really wonder how many people would just leave earth for good.


Most moderates to conservatives would leave in a heart beat. That is why leftists work to gut the space agency. They can't stand the idea of non liberals living how they themselves choose for themselves anywhere in existence.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 04:59 AM
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In our lives all we will be allowed to have is a 4 cyl piston engine. GUARANTEED!
You see, we can't handle more than that.
Sarcasm...





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