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Democrats Retreat On Civil Liberties In 2012 Platform

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posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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Occupy.com


In 2008, Democrats were eager to draw a contrast with what they then portrayed as Republican excesses in the fight against Al Qaeda. Since then, the Obama administration has in many cases continued the national security policies of its predecessor—and the Democratic Party's 2012 platform highlights this reversal, abandoning much of the substance and all of the bombast of the 2008 platform. Here are a few places where the differences are most glaring:

Indefinite Detention

Warrantless Surveillance/PATRIOT Act

Gitmo

Racial Profiling in Fighting Terrorism

Torture


You can read the contrasts at the link.

I am a reformed Democrat/Liberal, I voted for Obama... to be honest I didn't just vote for him I was enamored by him. After eight years of GW Bush I think any Democrat could have stepped into office and with a cult following in tow. I thought America would be saved, that we would remove all the constrictions on our freedoms, unlock the chains we placed on ourselves because we were so afraid after 9/11.

I remember, even though I despised him, needing to hear Bush speak after the attacks. I needed to hear an authoritative voice and I remember after his initial comforting words another form of dread infecting my brain. I immediately thought about the history of Japanese Americans during WWII and as we heard about the Patriot Act being drawn up as our troops were preparing to leave home, I knew we were in an ass load of trouble.

Flash forward seven years and finally it was going to be over. Obama knew about the corruption, he knew why the wars were still going, he knew everything was backwards and inside out and he was going to lead the House and the Senate in getting America back.

It took a little over two years for me to start questioning what was taking so long to even hear the language about undoing all of Bush's evils, of course I rationalized that Bush's economy had bottomed out and 'we' lost Congress. But to not even talk about it? And the pace was increasing? Then with Occupy I saw the chains tightening and that was my final break with Dems.

It's hard breaking from a party, a paradigm that most of us grew up with...

My main reason for posting this thread is to start a conversation among members that consider themselves Left, Liberal or Democrat, how do you all feel about this reversal or silence? This issue was so fundamental for voters registered Democrat. What is to be done now?
edit on 17-9-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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You actually believed in that whole "hope and change" speech? Wow. They're all liars who will say anything to get the people on their side. Nothing is going to change. Not with Obama or the next 10 presidents. Not until we get an official in that office who cares about the American people, the Constitution and cant be controlled by the PTB.
I dont associate myself with any political party. Although I used to be a devout Republican. Then my eyes were opened and I realized theyre all the same crooks, just with different names and badges.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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What happened was that Obama got the big picture intel and began to realize that some people are not quite as friendly towards America as the utopian left would have hoped. Obama matured. Will you?



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by 369821
 


Well, I wanted to believe it. Obama is, in my opinion anyway, very personable. I guess part of my point is that... we justify so much that comes from 'our side'. At what point do we break with it and realize how far something is gone? Is this (the subject of the article) enough for more people that consider themselves Left or Liberal to break with Dems?



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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I was never enamored by Obama, I just looked at his donors......Goldman Sachs candidate..come on.

But he did stop torture (on paper at-least) and did try to close GITMO


Obama tried to close GITMO


On May 20, 2009, as part of a war-funding request, the Senate voted 90 to 6 against appropriating $80 million to close Guantanamo.



The executive order signed by Obama established a task force to review the case of every detainee — there were 241 when he took office — and recommend what should happen to them.


www.washingtonpost.com...

And made an executive order to stop torture


The executive order said that prisoners "shall in all circumstances be treated humanely and shall not be subjected to violence to life and person (including murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment, and torture), nor to outrages upon personal dignity (including humiliating and degrading treatment)." It also specifically nullifies interpretations of federal law on interrogations "issued by the Department of Justice between September 11, 2001, and January 20, 2009" under President George W. Bush.


www.whitehouse.gov...
edit on 17-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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I hope you liberals and democrats can be honest with yourselves and admit that obama is trampling our rights just as badly as dubya ever did.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I don't see a need for insults. Of course people aren't friendly towards America and of course there are legitimate threats to America. I find my new position to be because I have in fact matured and can no longer justify a continuation of policies that encourage a good guys/bad guys acceptance for our behavior in the rest of the world. I have no problem with handling honest threats to America, I never want to see another 9/11 or Timothy McVeigh or Columbine... none of those as tragic and horrific as they were, justify the policies in reaction to them.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by 369821
 



You actually believed in that whole "hope and change" speech? Wow. They're all liars who will say anything to get the people on their side. Nothing is going to change.


Tell that to all the Ron Paul supporters on here who bought into the "liberty and freedom" talk as well. They don't seem to get it.

They have the same mentality the Obama fans did in 2008


edit on 17-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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IMO that they have no intention of Retreating. Once elected they will do what they want. The end justifies the means.

A while back a local politician appeared on my porch. He wanted my vote, so I asked him a direct question.
I asked "what's your stance on abortion". Now he didn't know if I was liberal or conservative.
He said "well this is a local election, we don't have much to do with that".
I said "but it has everything to do with your ideology." ..He wouldn't answer. He knew he only had a 50/50 chance of getting my vote at that point.

He didn't know what to say, so he simply asked me......
"What do you want to hear"? I couldn't believe what this man had said!
I politely asked him to leave.
They most likely have not retreated on anything. They just think it's what people want to hear.
They want that vote. Keep in mind, the same can be said for many politicians. This platform change means very little after the vote is cast. Obama has already made it clear to Russia he will "have more flexibility after the election". Meaning, he intends to do as he pleases regardless of the platform.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I have to say that I agree with you. (mark it on your calendars!) Once Obama got into office, he was schooled about how the world works. He pulled back on some of his promises, but did a what he could to advance on others. I still think his heart is in the right place and I believe he will do what he can to move our country in the direction of civil liberties, but he's one man going up against a system that's been in place for decades.

He's also a politician and I have always reminded myself of that. So my expectations weren't as lofty as some others, who saw him as the one person who could and would change the world. So, while I am disappointed that many of his promises have fallen by the wayside or were compromised on, I am not disappointed in most of what he's done. Of course, there are the exceptions (listed in the article) that I'm very disappointed in, but one of my biggest reason for voting for him again this year is to avoid the alternative.

The way our country works now is that one of two people is going to be president. However stupid that is (and I think it is), that is how we work at this time. The only way that's going to change is for people to abandon political parties. The more people that do that, the more independent our thinking is and the more rational we become when choosing the candidates for office. With just 2 parties, we have the choice of one or the other and people vote for their "team" to win. As long as our country is doing that, we will have the choice of 2 bad options.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by RealSpoke
 


There in lies the problem. People actually believe what these politicians are saying. They buy into their lies whole heartily and then are shocked when they are let down.Every last one of them is full of poo and are just speaking what they think we want to hear.
After politics, they should consider a career in used car sales. I think they would all be very good at it.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
What happened was that Obama got the big picture intel and began to realize that some people are not quite as friendly towards America as the utopian left would have hoped. Obama matured. Will you?


Luckily for him the MSM has decided not to incite mass outrage in the country over these policies like they did with the Bush administration. It just goes to show how powerful a propaganda program the white house and media have. People on ATS used to rage about these topics, but seemed to have lost all interest the second the MSM stopped raging about them.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I am not disappointed in most of what he's done. Of course, there are the exceptions (listed in the article) that I'm very disappointed in, but one of my biggest reason for voting for him again this year is to avoid the alternative.


/\ /\ /\

This poster is a great example. She used to post thread after thread about how evil the Bush admin was for Gitmo, Wiretaps and other topics that she now gives Obama a complete pass on. Now she's apparently happy with skyrocketing gas prices, deficits, unemployment, UAV strike son American citizens and probably just about anything else, because the MSM has convinced her that Romney is pure evil.

I dont like Romney much either, but at least he knows how to run a business and make money. Something we're in dire need of.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


I'm not a Democrat. I'm a registered Republican, but I'm moderate. I voted for Obama, as did my more conservative Republican husband, for the same reasons you did. We were disgusted by the same things that bothered you. And we were taken aback by the extremism the neo cons were taking the party in. We wanted a push back to the center and to human rights and long valued constitutional rights.

Around that time we awoke to how we were being manipulated by the main stream media, even so called fair and balanced Fox. I became active on ATS to learn more about what a suburban sheeple mom I'd been.

Now I understand what is meant by "welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.". I'll always be patriotic, but to the ideal of America and what I once thought it was, and what I still hope and believe it could be. But I'm more awake now to its current reality and the impact we've been having, for good or ill, on the rest of the world, and more importantly...why.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 




I still think his heart is in the right place and I believe he will do what he can to move our country in the direction of civil liberties

Seriously? This monstrosity is defecating on the Constitution daily. Do you understand the implications of the arrest powers granted him in the 2012 NDAA? Hitler wishes he had it so good.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by PvtHudson

Originally posted by Skyfloating
What happened was that Obama got the big picture intel and began to realize that some people are not quite as friendly towards America as the utopian left would have hoped. Obama matured. Will you?


Luckily for him the MSM has decided not to incite mass outrage in the country over these policies like they did with the Bush administration. It just goes to show how powerful a propaganda program the white house and media have. People on ATS used to rage about these topics, but seemed to have lost all interest the second the MSM stopped raging about them.
Luck had nothing to do with it. His corporate masters were pleased with his actions and would not allow their employees to besmirch his reputation with the truth.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
I was never enamored by Obama, I just looked at his donors......Goldman Sachs candidate..come on.

But he did stop torture (on paper at-least) and did try to close GITMO


Obama tried to close GITMO


On May 20, 2009, as part of a war-funding request, the Senate voted 90 to 6 against appropriating $80 million to close Guantanamo.



The executive order signed by Obama established a task force to review the case of every detainee — there were 241 when he took office — and recommend what should happen to them.


www.washingtonpost.com...

And made an executive order to stop torture


The executive order said that prisoners "shall in all circumstances be treated humanely and shall not be subjected to violence to life and person (including murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment, and torture), nor to outrages upon personal dignity (including humiliating and degrading treatment)." It also specifically nullifies interpretations of federal law on interrogations "issued by the Department of Justice between September 11, 2001, and January 20, 2009" under President George W. Bush.


www.whitehouse.gov...
edit on 17-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)


I disagree. What Obama did was just for show, knowing that he could count on the Senate to block funding. That way he could keep the base open while looking like he tried to keep his promise.

As CIC, Obama could have simply told Congress, "Look, in 90 days I am going to transfer every military person out of Guantanamo. Once the military personell are gone, the base will revert back to Cuba, as per treaty." You can bet your bottom dollar that Congress would have then come up with the money to close the base properly. It takes more money to keep a base open than to close it.



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 




That reminds me of the look on obamas face after his first national security briefing and after the briefing when he officially took office

There is a few picks floating on the net

The look was "....oh s*** theres trouble" ....that of fear....and intimidation, of what he'd just learnt and the task at hand



Either that or ".....oh s*** they just threatened to kill me and my family if I don't go along"

But he didn't look well



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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People send their life savings to exiled Ethiopian princes everyday.

Voting is no different. You just feel smarter about buying into a politicians lies than you do cutting a check for those riches promised in an email. And that's why nothing will change and politics will always be a game played at your expense.

Nothing makes fools feel intelligent quite like politics.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Sep, 17 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by PvtHudson
... she now gives Obama a complete pass on.


If you had read my post, you'd know that that isn't true. But I'm not going to waste any more of my time responding to the likes of you.



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