Iranian group raises price on Satanic Verse's Author Rushdie's head

reply to post by ollncasino

This is wrong!

Now only if they had a CIA, NSA, Black Ops and other state sponsored organizations which killed people in secrecy.

Not only would that be acceptable, it would be glorified and cool!

I'll give 3.5 Million for the head of the Muslim who makes the next attempt on Rushdie's life.
Is that really how you show respect for your religion, by murdering for money?
(by the way, I don't have 3.5 million of anything, so this offer is only meant as a sarcastic response to an absurd offer, not to be taken literally.)

If I had the money, I would order "fatwomans" on all of the muftis or whatever they are called that are ordering these fatwas. The "prize" would be for a public bullet to the middle of the forhead of each and every one of these maggots.

reply to post by FlyersFan

A hero of sorts. He should be commended for bringing attention to the Satanic Verses.

Salman Rushdie's book is a book of fiction which uses magical realism, while the title of the book does reference Surat al-Najm (chapter of the star) 53:19-20 no where did Rushdie imply that he wrote the book as a way of "disproving" Islam, just watch some of his interviews about the book.

EXACTLY. The FACT that these Satanic Verses are there is more proof that Muhammad was just a murdering political opportunist who made up a religion to control people. We see it happening with others even to this very day. People wanting political power. People using religion as a way to control others. Political and religious leaders using murder and theft to gain power. Muhammad was no different.

Well yeah, this is what religion has pretty much always been used for.

If the Islamic nations were to look the Satanic Verses straight on .. their cult worship of Muhammad would be dead. And since the whole religion is Muhammad centered .. Islam would be dead. But they close their eyes and threaten to kill people who expose this truth .... how 'not-peaceful' ...

No not really, because clerics and priests can interpret doctrine and scripture in anyway they see fit, therefore the original meaning or intent of the passage can change drastically with the passage of time and the evolution of social norms. Just look at the plethora of interpretations of Genesis 22

22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

or any other passage talking about God ordering the deaths of whole societies.

New Heading: Mossad raises price on Satanic Verse's Author Rusdie's head.


Israel beating the war drums and people cant see that....WTF ?

reply to post by ollncasino

reply to post by FlyersFan




Forgetting something?

If you're willing to kill some Bandwidth then this is a must see video. Pretty much "explained".

How Rushdie Fooled The West

I like your logic.

I found it similarly amusing to see Muslims in Australia marching the streets yelling at the top of their lungs "Do not insult Mohammad. An interviewers interviews a young Muslim who says "you cannot insult the prophet of Islam! you cannot do that!".

What does that say about the nature of Islam???

The affair you described was an example of Shi'ite radicalism; however, the majority of Muslims are Sunni, and the major theologians of Sunni Islam, Ibn Hanbal, Al Ashar'i and Al Ghazali, all describe an Islam that makes any tolerance of non-Muslims entirely impossible.

Allah is identified with the attribute of Will. Early theologians in Islam, called Mu'Tazilites, objected to that position because it meant that if God is pure will, then what about the status of reason? What is reasons relation to God? According to Al Ghazali, just as reason contradicts sight (he gives the example of how the moon appears small to the sight, but reasons calculation contradicts sight by proving that in truth the moon is enormous) so too does Will transcend reason; the reason cannot comprehend Allah, since Allah is 'beyond contradiction'; and Allah cannot be abbreviated by being bound to any particular reason. A world with reason implies a world with an efficient existence in itself; Allah would then HAVE to bind himself to the laws of nature, and would as well have to act justly and unjustly. Surprisingly, this was an unpersuasive argument to the Asharites. The thought of Allah as anything but Absolute Power - God as He is in Himself - sounded blasphemous.

The implications of this doctrine are astounding. Muslims for the past 1400 years have been conditioned to look at the world in terms of Quran and Fiqh (jurisprudential judgement) instead of a conscious understanding of right and wrong based on reason, which we call conscience. In Islam, a person is taught to memorize certain codes of action; 5 categories are given to any action for a Muslim: Obligatory, Recommended, Permitted, Discouraged and Forbidden. Every act falls into a neat little compartment. Every aspect of human interaction is regulated by law.

Stuffy and suffocating you say? Yes; but people get used to it after awhile. Also, Islam has a very intense spiritual dimension - Sufism - that really convinces it's adherents of the factual nature of their experience. Islam is the absolute truth to them, and Islam MUST fulfill Gods will by spreading it the world over; through persuasion, or through the sword.

reply to post by dontreally

Islam MUST fulfill Gods will by spreading it the world over; through persuasion, or through the sword.

One false statement makes your entire post farse - Ridiculously nice try. Inventing words to downgrade islam without any knowledge makes me wonder what kind of a person you are!

Allah says: “Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.” Sûrah al-Baqarah: 256


Read the final sermon of "prophet muhammad pbuh"

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib (Prophet's uncle) shall henceforth be waived...

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people".

www.islamicity.com...


Anyways, IS ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD?

reply to post by shuar911

Anyways, IS ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD?

umm..yes.. Do you not know your own religions history??? How do you think the vast majority of North Africa, the Middle East and Asia became Muslim??

Look at the flag of Saudi Arabia; what do you think is meant by that long sword? Will put into Action.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by shuar911

 

umm..yes.. Do you not know your own religions history??? How do you think the vast majority of North Africa, the Middle East and Asia became Muslim??

Look at the flag of Saudi Arabia; what do you think is meant by that long sword? Will put into Action.

Prophet Muhammad had long taught about not bowing to false images. Allah had never sought or even needed any symbols.

Those swords one see on Islamic flags or texts are merely symbols of man made creations, to remember their victories against the barbaric tribesmen in Arabia, as a nation under the prophet then.

But was Persia and other civilised lands intended for the sword by the Prophet Muhammad? No.

He used the power of persuasion instead, time after time although he could have easily won that cultured nation easily. It was most unfortunate he died before his policy of winning hearts and minds could come to fruitation, and led to a power struggle immediately and the rest is history.

It is high time we this educated generation truly understand what Islam means and how it can be the guide for moral and ethical peaceful progress and evolution of muslims in the Middle East and contribute to our world created by our common Creator, known by many names across time and space, by sharing discussing and debating rationally instead of emotionally.

Mankind was never meant to be robots, as the first iman tried to install, which is comprehensible, for men of those time were barbarians with pagan worship before coverting to Islam to know civilisation, and relapse was common. Through the traditions and time, with Islamic principles instilled in muslims, the courage is needed now to step out to fully comprehend the truths and not dogmas.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Those swords one see on Islamic flags or texts are merely symbols of man made creations, to remember their victories against the barbaric tribesmen in Arabia, as a nation under the prophet then.

No they aren't. The sword symbolizes a recurrent fact of Islamic society: obedience is commanded through the sword. This is a basic staple of Islamic thinking, rooted in the theology of Al Ghazali.

The sword is a well known symbol for Will put into Action. People who arbitrate and deliberate would use a pen or some more docile image to convey the concept of diplomacy; but, in Islam, there is only Allah's unequivocal Will as the law determined by Islams lawmakers and nothing more; there is no discussion about it. Hence, the sword. The force or compulsion towards fulfillment of the requirements of shari'a is the sword.

This explains why not even ONE Islamic country is considered to be "free" by the world freedom indices. Saudia Arabia, which has a Islamic monarchy, fails in every category: Freedom = Not Free; Economic Freedom = moderately free; Press Freedom = very serious situation; Democracy = authoritarian regime.

In the case of so called Islamic Republics, as in Pakistan, Mauritania, Afghanistan and Iran, again, you get failures in all 4 categories. Only Pakistan is "partly free"; All are authoritarian regimes.

In the entire Muslim world, almost all are considered not free and failed democracies. Why?? Because Islam - being a legalistic religion which derives morality from the Quran and Hadith in incompatible with democratic freedoms like free speech, human rights, woman's rights which is rooted in reason; It is an impossible relationship. Reason and the Revelation of Allahs Will in the Quran do not get along; they contradict one another. So if reason contradicts a direct command in the Quran, how is it interpreted? According to Averroes, it should be interpreted metaphorically in order to reconcile it with the demands of reason; according to Al Ghazali, the WILL of Allah transcends human reason; to subject Allahs Will to human reason is to limit Allah. Al Ghazali won out; he is the 2nd biggest figure in Sunni Islam behind Mohammad. All Quranic verses are interpreted in the spirit of Al Ghazali's metaphysics of Allah as pure will; so if something happens to contradict reason, it is followed nonetheless.

Islam can only be saved from itself by rejecting the repressive doctrine of the "asharites", Al Ghazali etc, and returning to the moderate and rationalistic Islam taught by Avicenna, Averroes and the Mu'tazalim.

After doing some research on what "The Satanic Verses" is about, I was surprised to find out it
was based on fiction.

Somewhere in the book I'm sure that "The Satanic Verses" which tell of Muhammad contradicting himself
concerning praise of a goddess, but being that the book is mostly fiction you would think that the
controversy would have disappeared by now.

I did giggle a bit when I learned that the Fatwa calling for Rushdie's head can never be removed since the originator of the Fatwa is deceased.

reply to post by dontreally


It is not enough that you hold such knowledge and beliefs within your heart alone and rant out uselessly

You will need to share it, discuss, debate and find solutions together with others.

You and I can be wrong, but the many whom we have engaged with can't be. Even if they are wrong, they or their next generations will suffer the consequences of errors made, and the sacrifices to correct them so as to evolve.

Thus, the need to share discuss, debate with society on the broader scale, without fear or favor,to change or be changed so that evolution can happen.

It begins with you and me, through our families, relatives and friends, and through them, our society and world.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

It is not enough that you hold such knowledge and beliefs within your heart alone and rant out uselessly

It's not useless. One of the major problem confronting us is the lack of knowledge of what Muslims believe; what I'm "ranting" about, to use your insulting language, is orthodox Sunni doctrine, based in fundamental writings like Al Ghazalis "incoherence of the philosophers".

First and foremost we need to expose the deceit or ignorance of those apologists who defend every instance of Islamic radicalism as "only a small radicalized segment of the population", when in fact, it is Orthodox Sunni doctrine: it is 80% of Islam. The problem is ideologically rooted in Islam thinking.

You will need to share it, discuss, debate and find solutions together with others.

I agree absolutely that that needs to be done; but that's not the job that I've taken upon myself. My job is to make clear the exact nature of the problem. The solution itself is Hellenization of Islam; to have Muslims look back to it's greatest philosophers like Avicenna and Averroes. Otherwise, the root problem - Islams emphasis of Allah as pure will and it's implicit rejection of reason - will continue to create intractable difficulties between core Islamic values and democracy.

Accepting concepts like women's rights, freedom of speech, humans rights, constitutional government - all of these concepts are based in human reason. Islam by tethering itself to the Quran and according Allah's Will absolute primacy makes acceptance of these democratic principles impossible, because acceptance of these principles requires an acknowledgement of mans ability to use reason to know good from evil.

Look at basic traditional Islamic societies: woman are forced to wear burqas; women are prevented from going out on their own without a male chaperone (in Iran, a woman cannot go out after 8 without a man); women are prevented from participating in certain job fields; etc. And this is just woman;s issues; what about the right to freedom of speech? Can one denounce Islam without fearing for his life? NO. Not a single sane person living in Muslim country would risk doing that, knowing how the religious establishment would respond; how bout human rights: do you humans have fundamental rights? In Islams eyes, no; human beings have fundamental DUTIES to Allah - not rights. Why? Because to have rights entails an acknowledgement of mans freedom of will; If man is free, he is free to act any way he desires; Also, if man is free, it implies that he already possesses the rudimentary knowledge or faculty to come to know God i.e. through reason and conscience. And if man is equipped by providence with reason and conscience, that means providence desires that man recognize that he is entitled to certain inalienable rights. Yes, there are duties to God and each other, but there are also rights. Islam only recognizes duties - not rights.

Originally posted by ollncasino
[...] how many more verses in the Koran could be the work of the devil rather than Allah?

Dunno...

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." (2.216)

"[...] Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein" (2.257)

"Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire [...]" (3.151)

Originally posted by ollncasino
People who blame current Islamic radicalism on US foreign policy (Iraq and Iran) could pause to ponder the fact that Muslims were happily issuing a fatwa to assassinate a British writer who had 'insulted' their religion and were rioting world-wide 23 years ago.

This is the very point:

ISLAM HAS A PROBLEM WITH EVERYTHING NON-ISLAMIC

Not merely the US, The West or what they deem insulting to them.

They even hate each other just as rabidly, should their delusions not reconcile:

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner

We are in big trouble folks.

This is a GREAT video. However, he does keep mentioning ONE thing that is factually incorrect. I would like to email him & tell him, but I'm having trouble accessing his site & can't find a contact for him -

He keeps saying Islam means literally "surrender" but this is wrong. It literally means "peace". The spelling for "surrender" is different. The word Muslim can alternately mean "bringer/maker of peace" OR "one who has surrendered" (this is debatable) - and the words are related - but to say Islam means "surrender" is very incorrect.

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Typical religious behaviour. Picking and choosing what bits to put in their holy books, which suits their agenda, and the rest is forbidden. Then they execute anyone who dares expose their lies for what they are. Christianity is guilty of this too, only the worst of it ended hundreds of years ago.

Its situations like this, and the current rioting, that should serve as a reminder as to how dangerous religion is, and should be a wake up call for those enslaved within its bloodied walls.

Typical anti theist bigots twisting history to suite their own perverse ideologies. The changes your talking about at the hands of Catholics against Arian and Gnostic Christians was an effort of the Rich to control everything. No different to how the rich are now using atheist's, pagan's, vegetarians(animal rights groups), environmentalist terrorist groups and other left wing causes to control society.


Your bigotry only re-affirms the fact that the world has always been and will always be a dangerous place for Christians. Please distort history elsewhere.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by semperfortis

 

I see the OP as buying into the over-hyped "muslim threat" pushed by Western media outlets.

I see all this rioting and in my opinion, it is the work of the CIA.

You are suffering from cognitive dissonance. I would strongly urge you to research your sources better.

The Iranian regime is a joke. The sooner the ayatollah and his son die or get killed the better off Iran is. The sooner they kick Islam out of government and out of Iranian culture, the better.

Iran is the opposite of these Arab nations, in their stance toward Islam. This opposition needs to be nurtured so there is no fall-back into Arab-Iranian cooperation, although I wouldn't deem that very probable, since there will be a clash between the Iranian and Saudi Arabian regime over the leadership of Muslims, but still!